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The Almighty Buck Government United States News

The Secret Goldman Sachs Tapes 201

An anonymous reader writes: The radio program "This American Life" has published an extraordinary investigative report on how the U.S. government regulators in charge of keeping an eye on the banks actually interact with powerful financial institutions (podcast here). Financial journalist Michael Lewis describes the report thus: "The Fed failed to regulate the banks because it did not encourage its employees to ask questions, to speak their minds or to point out problems. Just the opposite: The Fed encourages its employees to keep their heads down, to obey their managers and to appease the banks. That is, bank regulators failed to do their jobs properly not because they lacked the tools but because they were discouraged from using them. The report quotes Fed employees saying things like, 'until I know what my boss thinks I don't want to tell you,' and 'no one feels individually accountable for financial crisis mistakes because management is through consensus.'"
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The Secret Goldman Sachs Tapes

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  • by ganjadude ( 952775 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:23PM (#48005083) Homepage
    most people here anyone have known for a long time that the banks and government have a symbiotic relationship. I guess its nice to see some proof for once. I cant say I am shocked in the least however.
    • by afidel ( 530433 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:28PM (#48005115)

      Yup, just like with the BLM/MMS it's a case of regulatory capture. In fact in the financial sector it was even worse as the banks were basically allowed to make minor changes to their operating and reporting structure to choose which regulatory agency(ies) they reported to so if one agency started to get too strict they'd just make changes and get a new regulator, and once enough banks switched there would be downsizing at the effected regulator so there were strong incentives not to go strong on enforcement.

    • by Charliemopps ( 1157495 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:40PM (#48005223)

      most people here anyone have known for a long time that the banks and government have a symbiotic relationship. I guess its nice to see some proof for once. I cant say I am shocked in the least however.

      So why is it, that when presented with evidence of some horrible thing, people tend to use it as a tool to act arrogant? "I always knew that was going on. You're a fool if you didn't."

      You didn't know, you suspected. We all did. This is evidence. Get mad. Apathy is your enemy.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        We are still waiting for management consensus to trickle down to us so we know what to think.

      • by ganjadude ( 952775 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @04:06PM (#48005403) Homepage
        oh I am pissed charlie. While america was burning, the suits in washington thought it made more sense to give money to the banks, without thinking about the people.

        the banks got the money to cover the bad loans (that the government mandated be made) without even thinking once you know, how about we give it to the people to pay the back bills, the banks get their money AND the people can keep their homes. but of course not. it didnt work out that way. america is in a worse spot than it was prior to the housing and financial collapse (unless you are a banker or politician)
        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26, 2014 @04:48PM (#48005639)

          "the banks got the money to cover the bad loans (that the government mandated be made)"

          The bad loans were not enough to cause the financial crisis. Total mortgage debt was something like $13 trillion, maybe half those were at risk of default. The banks (themselves, not because the government held a gun to their heads) inflated the mortgage debt by a factor of six, into something around $62 trillion. The instruments used to create some $40 trillion were RMBS and their deriviatives such as CDS. When a few defaults happened, as was expected in the high-risk, low tranche RMBSes, market groupthink and emotional overreaction occurred, and even mortgages which had been bundled into high tranche instruments, which hadn't defaulted and were not likely to default, lost value. Banks could no longer use hi tranche RMBS which had not experienced any defaults as collateral to roll over their funding. That's what CDS hedges were for, of course. But the CDS market was brand new and immature. So either banks didn't hedge enough, or the insurers (because they rightly thought there was no risk of default) didn't have enough to pay the insurance.

          In conclusion, the "bad loans" were a very small part of the market and could have been absorbed. The banks who made the bad loans had the houses as collateral, right? The bad loans alone did not cause the crash. It was the market mechanisms that inflated house loans into many times their real value through the use of financial insturments, and then market groupthink which saw a few defaults and panicked wildly, spreading the asset price drop to assets that really were still good loans, and then the inabilityt of insurers such as AIG and Bear Stearns to pay on the insurance claims when the RMBSes dropped, that caused the crash.

          The Fed should have bailed out individual homeowners instead of the banks.

          One of the reasons cited in the SIGTARP Maiden Lane report [slashdot.org] ("Factors Affecting Efforts to Limit Payments to AIG Counterparties") for intervening in the financial system was: "FRBNY was concerned about the effects of bankruptcy on key sectors of the market, such as retirement accounts and the credit markets." Why doesn't the Fed bail out Detroit then, since retirement accounts are affected there, too?

          • by ebno-10db ( 1459097 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @05:09PM (#48005795)

            There's also the problem that CDS's are insurance, but because of deliberate technicalities are not regulated as such. The laws and regulations that have been introduced since the 17th century, which keep insurance from being a complete scam or gamble, didn't apply. You could get a CDS on something you didn't even own; you could even get CDS's for several times the value. That's like letting me take out a $1M insurance policy on your $300k home, and then looking the other way when I go to your place and play with matches. It's a setup that's pretty much guaranteed to explode at some time - it doesn't take much to set it off.

            See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]

            • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

              Yawn. I am so not impressed with that argument. Can you tell me why this is so bad? Most of the time to goes to dark conspiracy theories with people burning down companies just for the insurance money but nobody can point to an actually case.

              Here is the truth. CDS are insurance contracts on credit instruments. Portfolio managers can buy them for bonds that they hold. The problem with buying exactly the credit protection on the bonds they own they need to write a custom contract with a counter party. This is

        • how about we give it to the people to pay the back bills

          Because money isn't worth anything without the debt that it represents.

        • They're always crying about how poorly freddie and fannie are doing but they could, say, pay off all the student loans for less than the price of a bailout, or bail out a bunch of these actual homeowners directly rather than giving people actual cash. So yeah, it's all a lot of cockery.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          (that the government mandated be made)

          This is a persistent myth. The total value of the loans that are proscribed to demonstrate a bank is not involved in red-lining was very small, a small fraction of the total loan market pre-crash. They were a disproportionately small slice of the total defaults.

      • So when banks routinely traded the fomc minutes in the milliseconds before the transcripts were released, we were only allowed to suspect an illicit symbiotic relationship?
      • by pupsocket ( 2853647 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @05:07PM (#48005771)

        Goldman Sachs has captured something much much bigger than a regulatory agency. The Federal Reserve is a massive financial operation with a charter from the people of United States to maintain the monetary conditions for a stable and robust market economy.

        Goldman got the General Counsel of the New York Fed to force the dismissal of an investigator who was brought in specifically to stop the kowtowing. She was fired for asking follow-up questions and telling her superiors to change her reports themselves if they wanted them changed.

        In the background of this scandal, Goldman Sachs was engaged in a transaction with the sole purpose of allowing a European bank to pretend that it was not overextended and so avoid recapitalizing to meet European-Union capital requirements. In other words, a European bank was risking an economic catastrophe that would have forced the EU to conduct a too-big-to-fail rescue, and Goldman Sachs enabled that bank to circumvent European banking authorities.

        Every investment in securities involves risk, and risk reduces the price at which paper trades. The Fed is now a guarantor of financial investments, making them more valuable than they might be if true risks were incorporated into the pricing. And the Fed is just one of the sovereign assets controlled by Goldman's posse of financial institutions.

        Meanwhile, we have neither a stable nor a robust economy. We just have incredible liquidity for investors in securities.

    • Typically, and especially here on slashdot, when people mention things of this nature, they're shut up with the "tinfoil hat bit", or some other "prove it bitch!" bit. It's sufficient to say that the same strong-hand that exists in dismantling the ability to regulate banks and government, is the same strong-hand that exists in dismantling our social structure(s)' ability to detect these things on street level. Thus, dots are not connected, then later, SURPRISE! Of course by then it's to late.
    • by g01d4 ( 888748 )

      Nobody should be surprised at government incompetence, in this case leading to regulatory capture. The proof came out long ago in the pudding of the financial crisis. The interview is not that interesting. Ms. Segarra's experience should be familiar to anyone who's had differences with management.

      My only take from the interview was what wasn't said (at least for the first 40 minutes), viz. that the Fed's played along hoping to get easier access to information. Yes, the banks had to give them what they asked

    • Correction: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      When you wrote: "...the banks and government have a symbiotic relationship... you seem to have missed the fact that neither side in this story was "the government"

      The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT a part of the Federal Government; it is a bank that is run by the banks. This highly market-manipulating entity which would otherwise run contary to all the antitrust laws that Teddy Roosevelt gave us only LOOKS to the public to be part of the government because of [1] its name, [2] the bank allows the US President

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The Fed is "independent within government". It is explicitly chartered to work in the public interest, as no private corporation is. It is not-for-profit, returning all interest profit to the Treasury each year.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:25PM (#48005093)

    Our government clearly lacks the balls to regulate the banks and provide leadership. This is just sad.

    • by ebno-10db ( 1459097 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @04:11PM (#48005431)

      Our government clearly lacks the balls to regulate the banks and provide leadership. This is just sad.

      I disagree. It's not lack of balls, but a combination of regulatory capture and (generally legal) bribery.

      • It's not lack of balls, but a combination of regulatory capture and (generally legal) bribery.

        Translation: The federal government is very corrupt.

        I have an idea.. lets give these corrupt sons of bitches more authority.

    • Big money owns the politicians, and they run the whole government. So don't be surprised when the system lets the rich do as they please without consequences. It is impossible to fix this without taking the money out of politics, and no politician in the current system will allow that to happen, because then they would have to compete on a level playing field with honest men. And that would mean they wouldn't be in power and able to repay their rich benefactors or get their own piece of the pie.
  • Too big (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jhol13 ( 1087781 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:30PM (#48005131)

    Isn't it nice ... if you destroy one persons life, you get penalty big enougf to ruin your life - if you ruin 100'000 you get a "golden parachute".
    Number of prosecuted persons (from last bank breakdown - and one before that - and next) is just appalling.

    • Yeah. At least in the case of ENRON people went to jail (Andy Fastow, Jeff Skilling, Ken Lay) and at least one committed suicide before going to jail. Once you totally remove the line between corporations and government, there's no accountability whatsoever. There was still a line in the ENRON case. Not so much anymore, with all the bailouts.
      • by jhol13 ( 1087781 )

        Are you insinuating that in Enron only three to five were doing illegal stuff? No way!
        Sorry, I think Enron (and others) got us into this "not responsible".

  • Contact your senator (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:30PM (#48005143)

    Carmen Segarra was hired to to clean up the poor oversight of the banks. Instead, she was fired for doing her job. Read the prepublica articles. It's a shame. Contact your senator and tell them to launch an investigation into the retaliation against Carmen!

  • New Pledge (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:31PM (#48005147)

    I pledge allegiance to my share
    of the United Stockholders of America
    and to the profit for which it stands
    one stock, Class-B non-voting, with a golden parachute for our CEO
    Amen.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:35PM (#48005187)

    > The report quotes Fed employees saying things like, 'until I know what my boss thinks I don't want to tell you,'

    No shit, its called top-down management. The minions don't do, say or think anything until instructed by their boss (or their boss's boss, or their boss's boss's boss)

    Did anyone seriously expect anything else out of a system which STILL (probably will NEVER) hasn't nailed anyone to the wall for the financial crash?

  • by silfen ( 3720385 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:42PM (#48005235)

    If we just get those evil (insert other party) out of office and then pass better laws, finally, regulations will work and achieve the desired outcome! Life will be swell!

  • by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:45PM (#48005259) Homepage Journal
    I'm going over the headlines today working on my pandering campaign platform. So far as president I promise to fire the entire forest service, prosecute the phoebus cartel to the fullest extent of the law and demand that my banking regulators not only do their jobs properly but to antagonize the bankers as much as possible (Up to and including stabbing them in the face if they feel it's required.) I predict this will be fairly popular on the internet but end up receiving no campaign contributions. How's that working so far?
  • What's going on here?
  • summary (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Charliemopps ( 1157495 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:47PM (#48005279)

    I happened across this before it got on here and listened to the entire thing. Here's a brief summary:

    1. This American Life is a great show. My favorite, you should listen to it often.
    2. Managers at the fed seem to be terrified of the banks
    3. The lady doing the recordings is aggressive and speaks her mind.
    4. There are many "Old Guard" people at the fed that have a cozy, friendly relationship with the banks they work with.
    5. The banks actively cultivate this relationship because they realize friendly regulators are less likely to press issues.
    6. She uncovered the fact that GS had no formal definition for "Conflict of interest" which is a violation of Fed rules.
    7. The fed worked for months gathering evidence and there was consensus that they needed to force GS into creating a policy
    8. Suddenly one day her management agreed GS did have a policy just not a good one.
    9. She was called in and her boss tried to bully her into changing her report to say they did have a policy.
    10. Not too long after she was fired.
    11. I believe the suggestion is that GS has control over management and who gets hired/fired at the fed.

    • by Morpeth ( 577066 )

      Good summary, the whistle blower is EXACTLY the kind of person we, the citizens, need at the Fed, and as it turns out, she is the type of employee who will have the shortest career at the Fed. It sucks.

  • by Squidlips ( 1206004 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @03:50PM (#48005295)
    A friend of mine worked on Wall Street and said that her firm had a guy at the fed whom they slipped bribes to in exchange for information about the interest rates. Apparently this is widespread.
    • I'm shocked, shocked that gambling is going on here!

      Gotta watch Casablanca again on of these days.

    • Many moons ago Bernanke admitted that the fed has abetted LIBOR manipulation. It is therefore not news that the fed permits large-scale theft by banks. The news is that Goldman makes the underlying decisions, which is not really news, but signifies a shift in popular culture from conspiracy theory to conspiracy fact.
      • Yes. One positive feedback loop you can thank the Snowden revelations for is the ease with which this information is disseminated as likely fact rather than tin hatter tripe.
  • To get anything done, you have to be intentional. You need the person doing it to want to do it. And once they decide they need it bad enough, they won't need that many tools. Heck, they'll even make their own. Heck, they might even break the law to do it. Intentions trump all. Too bad not wanting to do something or not giving a fuck has never been a crime...
  • by LearningHard ( 612455 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @04:52PM (#48005667) Journal

    The biggest selling point they gave me was that if I played nice after 10 years I could leave the Comptroller's office and get a huge paycheck from one of the major banks.

  • by Morpeth ( 577066 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @05:12PM (#48005813)

    Listened to segment on NPR this morning, what I got out of it was the Fed is afraid of the big investment banks, when it should be the other way around. I was honestly a bit shocked by how timid and afraid the Fed people were, it was embarrassing.

  • by koan ( 80826 )

    This is how you know it was all planned, from Clinton signing off on the final; removal of Glass Steagall to Fab stating "I don't even know what I'm selling".
    The same group of people have been at these financial constructions designed to rob people, the FED is a part of it, you need only look at who runs the financial institutions, who is tops at the fed, who has the presidents ear and finally who really drives the wars in the Middle East.
    All the same group of people, it's amazing people aren't pointing it

  • Seriously people!

    This is the EXACT reason that bitcoins were invented and this is the EXACT problem that is solved.

    You no longer have these Banks colluding with the FED to stuff your money supply.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      Yes, you can sink all your money into Bitcoin and hope that a currency which doesn't respond at all to the size of the economy works out and saves the world.

      Or you could become more involved in the political process and try to get people elected who will appoint more independent Fed governors and financial regulators and pass better laws for them to work under.

      Choose your long shot.

  • by Required Snark ( 1702878 ) on Friday September 26, 2014 @08:56PM (#48006987)
    Paulson, appointed to the Secretary of the Treasury by Bush [wikipedia.org] in 2006, spent over 35 years at Goldman-Sachs starting in 1974 and ending up as chairman.

    Can your say conflict of interest? I knew you could.

    It has been pointed out that Paulson's plan could potentially have some conflicts of interest, since Paulson was a former CEO of Goldman Sachs, a firm that might benefit largely from the plan. Economic columnists called for more scrutiny of his actions. Questions remain about Paulson's interest, despite having no direct financial interest in Goldman, since he had sold his entire stake in the firm prior to becoming Treasury Secretary, pursuant to ethics law. The Goldman Sachs benefit from the AIG bailout was recently estimated as US$12.9 billion and GS was the largest recipient of the public funds from AIG. Creating the collateralized debt obligations (CDO's) forming the basis of the current crisis was an active part of Goldman Sach's business during Paulson's tenure as CEO. Opponents argued that Paulson remained a Wall Street insider who maintained close friendships with higher-ups of the bailout beneficiaries. If passed into law as originally written, the proposed bill would have given the United States Treasury Secretary unprecedented powers over the economic and financial life of the U.S. Section 8 of Paulson’s original plan stated: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Some time after the passage of a rewritten bill, the press reported that the Treasury was now proposing to use these funds ($700 billion) in ways other than what was originally intended in the bill.

    Although TIME Magazine had him as runner up for the Person of the Year in 2008 [wikipedia.org] they also listed him as one of the "25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis" [wikipedia.org]

  • And always has been.
  • But sad, almost disgusting to see how lousy the government and its agencies can be. Maybe I want to throw up now.

    I certainly have no good feelings about the Fed or our major banks, even if this report DID come from the Fed. Too bad the media didn't do ITS job to highlight things like this. Thanks, Slashdot and "This American Life".

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