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Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds

Soulskill posted about 2 months ago | from the coming-to-terms-with-reality dept.

Editorial 1198

PvtVoid writes: "Jeopardy champion Arthur Chu pens a heartfelt takedown of misogyny in nerd culture: 'I’ve heard and seen the stories that those of you who followed the #YesAllWomen hashtag on Twitter have seen—women getting groped at cons, women getting vicious insults flung at them online, women getting stalked by creeps in college and told they should be "flattered." I’ve heard Elliot Rodger’s voice before. I was expecting his manifesto to be incomprehensible madness—hoping for it to be—but it wasn’t. It’s a standard frustrated angry geeky guy manifesto, except for the part about mass murder. I've heard it from acquaintances, I've heard it from friends. I've heard it come out of my own mouth, in moments of anger and weakness.

What the f*$# is wrong with us? How much longer are we going to be in denial that there's a thing called "rape culture" and we ought to do something about it? ... To paraphrase the great John Oliver, listen up, fellow self-pitying nerd boys — we are not the victims here. We are not the underdogs. We are not the ones who have our ownership over our bodies and our emotions stepped on constantly by other people's entitlement. We're not the ones where one out of six of us will have someone violently attempt to take control of our bodies in our lifetimes.'"

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1198 comments

Yeah, but.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111339)

women are also bitches.

Re:Yeah, but.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111367)

+1

Re:Yeah, but.... (4, Insightful)

sabri (584428) | about 2 months ago | (#47111403)

women are also bitches.

So what? You're an asshole. That does not give me the right to take your life.

Re:Yeah, but.... (4, Funny)

OakDragon (885217) | about 2 months ago | (#47111711)

Boy, that escalated quickly.

Re:Yeah, but.... (5, Insightful)

KingOfBLASH (620432) | about 2 months ago | (#47111743)

That's because this entire submission should be modded -5 Flamebait

Re:Yeah, but.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111737)

It does, however, give me the right to complain about bitches.

Re: Yeah, but.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111409)

And you're an ass. Women are women.

#notallgeekyguys (5, Insightful)

fche (36607) | about 2 months ago | (#47111347)

"Itâ(TM)s a standard frustrated angry geeky guy manifesto ..."

You hang around a weird/scary bunch of angry geeky guys. The "manifesto" becomes far-out well before the murder-intent plans.

Re:#notallgeekyguys (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111457)

Even if it were an accurate reflection of typical beliefs, "except for the part about mass murder" is a pretty huge exception.

We didn't have this conversation about environmentalism after the unibomber and we don't need it about some fringe internet trolls now.

Re:#notallgeekyguys (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111473)

I haven't read the manifesto. Please google NotAllMen and do a bit of reading. Maybe Slate's http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/05/27/not_all_men_how_discussing_women_s_issues_gets_derailed.html

What the f*$# is wrong with us? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111379)

I don't know about you, but there's nothing wrong with me. I would appreciate it if you stopped putting words into my mouth.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111397)

Spoken like a true member of the flat earth society. This problem is real, it's indisputable.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111443)

You are right! The problem with stereotyping all guys the same is a real problem and it's indisputable that it needs to stop.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111471)

Typical leftist garbage, seeking to pin the blame on one section of society and getting fake outrage when they dare to call you on your delusions.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111489)

Yes, because here in Western Civilization men are known for gang raping, throwing acid in the faces for not wearing proper hijabs, stoning for infidelity, and preventing from owning property or even driving unescorted of women.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111509)

Good thing I don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (4, Insightful)

BStroms (1875462) | about 2 months ago | (#47111567)

The problem is very real, but it doesn't change the fact it doesn't apply to everyone here.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (2)

DocSavage64109 (799754) | about 2 months ago | (#47111733)

The best trolls are indistinguishable from serious comments.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (5, Interesting)

digsbo (1292334) | about 2 months ago | (#47111763)

Now you're getting somewhere. I've never seen inappropriate or aggressive behavior towards women in any of the geek/nerd groups I've been in. In fact, I'd say most of them would get strong marks for showing full respect for women. That said, I am certain that reports of specific incidents and groups having a pattern of behavior are real. I recall one of the security conventions had a problem, which somehow didn't surprise me, knowing that's a sub-group of geekdom with its own dynamic.

Generally speaking, I have found the bigger problems tend to go with the more macho types though. Yes, occasionally you hear of a problem with a school group other than a sports team, but in the vast majority of cases, groups of men who are aggressive towards women are groups of men who are GENERALLY aggressive. Drug gangs, low grade thugs, etc., are all far worse, unquestionably, than "geeks".

It really sounds to me like there is a concerted effort to apply labels and groupings to what is really just an age old problem.

Now, on the other hand, can we address the reality that men are FAR more likely than women to be victims of violence, physical intimidation, violent crime, and other physical threats such as military hazards and other job-related physical danger?

The problem here is not that anyone is against ending violence against women. It's that we have blown what is effectively a rare occurrence (dude going nuts) being confused with a non-existent pattern of nerd rage, all being whipped into a social media shitstorm to make PC points in the press.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111633)

It's much easier to attack people with name calling and witty statements than to actually address the issue, isn't it?

Lets hunt down all of the people who aren't willing to stand up and say "Yes, I'm a woman hater" and scream and yell at them. Lets come up with a list of things that we can use to out them as the evil which they are. Lets create a strict set of rules for how you can and can't speak about the topic so that we can put to the fires those that fall outside those rules.

All of this, because it's a whole lot easier than addressing the issue itself. Brand those who are evil and get into screaming matches with them about how horrible they are. And hope that the shaming of those poor sods will keep the real nutcases from coming out, when in reality, we're only making the extreme cases worse.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (5, Insightful)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 2 months ago | (#47111641)

The irony is that Chu is attacking nerds for stereotyping all women. But in the process, he's stereotyping all nerds.

Look Arthur, we're all really happy that you've got a GF who you think this stunt will impress. But throwing one group under the bus to stand up for another still results in just as many people getting hit by the bus.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (5, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about 2 months ago | (#47111759)

The irony is that Chu is attacking nerds for stereotyping all women. But in the process, he's stereotyping all nerds.

Look Arthur, we're all really happy that you've got a GF who you think this stunt will impress. But throwing one group under the bus to stand up for another still results in just as many people getting hit by the bus.

Yeah! Bro's before ho's!

Oh, wait. Dammit.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (1, Insightful)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | about 2 months ago | (#47111769)

The problem isn't that all nerds are psychotic stalkers or super gross creepy dudes, it's that as a sub culture, we let those people thrive.

By letting them amongst our ranks, and by letting them know it's OK to cyberstalk someone or that hey it's ok, she was a bitch anyway or any number of inhuman and gross misogynistic streaks in our culture, we are defined by them now.

Re:What the f*$# is wrong with us? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111729)

there's nothing wrong with me

That's one of those sentences that is guaranteed false, so you're either deluded or malevolent.

You could have said, "I don't recognise anything wrong with me - I think I treat everyone perfectly and never take any advantage of any of society's prejudices." It would sound pompous and incredible if expanded like that, but at least it would be closer to the truth about how you perceive yourself.

You could have shouted, "NOT ALL MEN!" like that hilarious meme you so quickly managed to tick all the boxes for. Then we could have had a giggle.

But better to make a short statement not unlike, "I am perfect!" which can be modded up by several other people who also believe they are perfect. Ah, progress.

yet another one of these stories? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111387)

I think Henry Rollins summed it up the best...

You say we're all the same.
You don't even know my name.
Sometime somewhere someone wants hurt you and I'm one of them
You think you know about me...
You don't know a damn thing about me!
So I take all the blame...

I'm not all men
I'm just one man
I'm not that man!

Re:yet another one of these stories? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111627)

This. So much fucking this.

Men are not rapists. RAPISTS are rapists.

Wasn't the whole point of the civil rights movement of the last 60 years that everybody deserved to be judged on their own actions, merits, and efforts, not by which group they are born in to? This new bullshit where it's now socially "acceptable" to hurl insults, accusations, and blame at certain groups (you know the ones I'm talking about) because they're seen as somehow being descended from THE OPPRESSORS runs contrary to everything we as a society have been working to fix this whole time.

The idea is to stop generalizing and stereotyping groups, not change which groups you stereotype! For fuck's sake... seriously.

Re:yet another one of these stories? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111683)

This new bullshit where it's now socially "acceptable" to hurl insults, accusations, and blame at certain groups (you know the ones I'm talking about) because they're seen as somehow being descended from THE OPPRESSORS

Those Damn Dirty Apes!

Re:yet another one of these stories? (3, Insightful)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 2 months ago | (#47111775)

I think Henry Rollins summed it up the best...

He usually does.

Cue the standard denials... (-1, Flamebait)

DerekLyons (302214) | about 2 months ago | (#47111393)

in 3... 2... 1... And they'll all get +5 "Insightful" and "Interesting" too.

And they couldn't get more wrong. On both counts.

Re:Cue the standard denials... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111675)

So you're admitting that *you're* a homicidal misogynist? Good to know, I guess.

forever actually (4, Insightful)

kick6 (1081615) | about 2 months ago | (#47111395)

How much longer are we going to be in denial that there's a thing called "rape culture" and we ought to do something about it?

Forever, because there is no such thing. Only by using the ever-expanding militant-feminist definition of rape which currently stands at "anything, at all, ever, that makes me in the slightest bit uncomfortable" can we possibly believe there's actually a culture of rape. What we ACTUALLY have is a culture of socailly retarded males and females, and culture of feminists preying on the socially retarded females and making them believe that they're entitled to waltz through never being made to feel uncomfortable, ever. This is patently untrue, and no amount of slut-walks can ever create a utopia where a woman - even a man - can leave a ladeeda life.

Re:forever actually (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111613)

I agree that the abuse on the word "rape" does more harm than good. It's a strong word and it should only be used when appropriate. Other situations, like molesting for example, which are also wrong should be called by their own names. Putting everything under the same term dilutes the term and makes it less useful.

HOWEVER, if you have a look at the general Western culture, but *particularly the US*, there is a very well spread concept of the rape victim being actually at fault, due to wearing provocative clothes, due to walking at night through a park, due to going to a party, or whatever other reasons people use to justify something that can never be right.

This same thing of putting the victim in the "at fault" extends to other forms of abuse. Catcalling, for example, is a very spread form of abusing women. It's not rape. It is not as bad as rape, nor is it as bad as molesting. However, it's really annoying and it shouldn't be tolerated. It's not a question of some women not wanting to ever be offended. For particularly attractive women, this is something that happens practically every day, with very disgusting language and in a way that really makes them feel unsafe. Most people will just dismiss this saying that "women like it". And this is wrong. Of course, every human being likes to hear nice things every once in a while, so, stuff like an innocent "You are beautiful" is fine for most women. But the usual catcall goes more along the lines of "I'd fuck you right here", "I want to make kids out of you", or similar disgusting stuff that NO, women DON'T like to hear.

Re:forever actually (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111745)

I keep hearing people say that we 'blame the victim' but i really don't know anyone who actually does this or anyone who encourages this behavior i don't know what goes on down south but up here in Canada rape is bad and we blame rapists..

Re:forever actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111619)

in feminist threads flaimbait = truth tag

Re:forever actually (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about 2 months ago | (#47111693)

while you got modded down for the way you worded things you arent completely wrong.

Getting drunk and having sex with someone, and than feeling ashamed of it is not rape

when someone stares at your chest, thats not sexual assault

Frivolous things like I just listed are things that make the ACTUAL rape problem (and it is a real problem) harder to solve

Re:forever actually (2)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 2 months ago | (#47111751)

I want to know where this "rape culture" is. Because I've lived a long time. I played high school football. I was in a college fraternity. And I've been around a lot of fellow nerdy computer programmers. And never ONCE was I in an environment where it was considered even REMOTELY acceptable to rape women or even seriously joke about it.

So maybe Mr. Chu can tell us where exactly where this "rape culture" is, because it sure as fuck isn't anywhere where I've ever been. But maybe he hangs with a different crowd.

Move along , nothing to see here. (4, Informative)

sinij (911942) | about 2 months ago | (#47111401)

This must be another of these fake outrage threads.

Re:Move along , nothing to see here. (2)

lbmouse (473316) | about 2 months ago | (#47111497)

Well, it does belong perfectly in SRS over on Reddit.

Re:Move along , nothing to see here. (1)

PatentMagus (1083289) | about 2 months ago | (#47111529)

Nah, someone got a girl friend and is stomping around flinging poo like an alpha-simian. The outrage is real.

Fuck you (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111411)

The guy went to the gym and loved to go out and take pics of himself and his BMW. He was not a nerd.
You will have to use the Asians or autists as scapegoats because we are not taking the fall for this one. Go to hell you piece of shit.

Speak for yourself? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111413)

I like to think that most of us are above all this nonsense and just treat each other equally regardless, I don't think it's quite fair to stereotype 'nerds', 'geeks', 'tech-heads' or whatever term you wish to use, and tar us all with the same brush.

Open season on the white male (1, Flamebait)

PeeAitchPee (712652) | about 2 months ago | (#47111425)

Good to see the PC police out in full force. Wonder why these folks don't focus their energies on the dozens shot in inner cities around the country EVERY NIGHT rather than trying to score political points by pointing out "Look! an angry white guy did it!" every time a mass shooting happens (and by that, I mean the statistically insignificant one or two times a year it happens)? It's an election year, bitches.

Re:Open season on the white male (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111543)

Who exactly are "these folks" that you're talking about? And how do you know where "these folks" do or do not "focus their energies"?

Also, please let us know all you have done about the dozens shot in inner cities every night, since you want us to think you're so concerned about them. Or are you just concerned about it being "open season on the white male"? Maybe you could clarify your position. Or have you already done so elsewhere, maybe in some sort of manifesto?

Re:Open season on the white male (4, Insightful)

ganjadude (952775) | about 2 months ago | (#47111781)

i cant speak for the OP, but hes not wrong. Every night there are murders that happen (yes... with a gun!) in chicago and DC and LA etc etc. We never see al sharpton or the talking heads on CNN or foxnews ever talk about those murders. We dont have congressmen pretending to all of a sudden care when a gang banger takes out another gangbanger, or worse hits an innocent bystander.

Every single day more people ar ekilled with guns due to gang violence than happened by this one sick fuck, yet we focus on the sick fuck rather than on gang culture??

Is he going to jump around? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111427)

Is he going to go through his argument in the standard, logical order, or is going to jump around all over the place to try to confuse the reader?

this dude is trying like hell to get laid. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111429)

Wonder how its working out for him after this.

Rinse Lather Repeat. (1, Flamebait)

jythie (914043) | about 2 months ago | (#47111435)

Some variation of this comes up now and then, this has been a topic and argument within geekdom for, well, as long as I can remember at least. Sadly I rarely see people actually starting to see from another perspective and instead just circling the wagons to defend about their misogyny.

Poor numbers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111451)

"We're not the ones where one out of six of us will have someone violently attempt to take control of our bodies in our lifetimes."

This is debatable. The numbers on men being raped are even more fuzzy than for women and studies in the military have suggested that it is a lot closer to the rate for female victims that we might imagine.

Re:Poor numbers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111645)

In the military, where hyper-aggressive machoness is a valued trait and biological women are relatively rare. cf. prison.

who is "WE"??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111459)

you are NOTHING

What's wrong with us? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111463)

Social standards are built upon the norms established during one's childhood based upon upbringing and exposure to diverse environments.

We are still very young, generation-wise, from the time of women's suffrage. Realistically, we're still very young from the race segregation as well. No matter how good of a person you are, there is another person on the other side of the country being taught opposing beliefs.

These are issues that are not solved overnight. They are solved very slowly, decade-by-decade, as society drifts towards being more open and accepting. Solutions simply require that those who are misogynistic, bigoted, or prejudice be killed off without forcing their beliefs unto their offspring. The percentage of children from each generation who are raised to treat others with respect should then increase over time.

There is no solution, there's nothing to be gained by calling out entire swathes of humanity. To fix this we should strive to teach our kids to treat each other better, then wait 20 years for them to pass on the same message to their kids. We should strive to expose our children to strong female peers, provide good role models, and give them opportunities to learn from each other. And then wait 20 years.

Realize that this is not an issue that will be solved during your lifetime and do what you can for the future generations.

In a country where there's still rampant racism, it'll be a long time before we see gender issues resolved. However, it has made a remarkable movement over the past hundred years.

I've been under a rock... (5, Insightful)

MindPrison (864299) | about 2 months ago | (#47111469)

...most of my life, obviously - because I don't ever recall EVER seeing a geek/nerd in my circles stalking anyone, threatening a girl and never mind hitting one. I'd say they'd improve their life if they even TRIED to HIT on any woman at all.

Most of those I know are frightened at the very concept of dating, pretty socially awkward I guess, but kind and gentle caring people who wouldn't even DREAM of hurting anyone. Sure, they'll kick your mental-a** and hurt your coding feelings by pointing out the numerous bugs in your code, and flaws in your theories, and possibly sweep the floor with your ego in gaming, but no way they'd ever even lift a finger to actually hurt you.

Nerds are usually unsure of themselves, usually excellent at SOMETHING and not so much at everything else. This is usually because they have spent so much time coding and learning very complicated stuff that takes a LONG time of anyone's life, so it's bound to steal some time from the usual life that just about anyone else live, learning the ropes of networking and social skills.

I must have been living under a rock the last 30 years or so.

Re:I've been under a rock... (2)

tthomas48 (180798) | about 2 months ago | (#47111587)

Well. You can go ahead and just read this comment thread for a start. All the people and reactions he mentions are in this comment thread in spades.

Re:I've been under a rock... (1)

BilI_the_Engineer (3618871) | about 2 months ago | (#47111727)

"*Says something controversial*"
"I predict that some people will disagree with me!"
"Wow, people disagreed with me! Just as I predicted! Therefore, all of your arguments are completely incorrect!" -A genius of the ages

Re:I've been under a rock... (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 2 months ago | (#47111651)

Even dumb people learn pretty quickly that you don't go showing aggression, regardless of what you feel inside, if you're the weak one.

If you haven't noticed, slashdot is a perfect example of a bunch of nerds seething with anger over the stupidest things possible.

Re:I've been under a rock... (1)

MindPrison (864299) | about 2 months ago | (#47111755)

If you haven't noticed, slashdot is a perfect example of a bunch of nerds seething with anger over the stupidest things possible.

You want to know what I HAVE noticed?

There is an old saying that says, treat people like you want them to treat you. This also goes for most Slashdotters I've ever read in here, we have a moderation system for a reason, it is to sift out the intelligent conversation from the lesser, and it usually works a treat.

Nerds can get angry just like a regular person of course, but my experience with nerds is that they have brain and pretty much use it, which means they usually down spew out a lot of mindless drivel, but pretty much like their code - seriously think things over before they talk. That's nerds in my world.

Re:I've been under a rock... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111659)

because it doesn't happen if you don't see it!

Re:I've been under a rock... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111695)

because I don't ever recall EVER seeing a geek/nerd in my circles stalking anyone
So... did you hear of this thing call twitter? It's full of stalkers. The members even pride themselves in having many stalkers following them. It's strange how this behaviour is promoted for some things and rejected for others. Why is it different online than in real life, I wonder myself.

Re:I've been under a rock... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111765)

Well if you weren't born 30 years ago the whole generational thing probably makes this problem bizzare to you.I'm in my 20's I'll try to share my experience on how I see versions of Elliot pretty regularly.

Nerds go through a pretty basic cycle that leads into misogony.
They find themselves with a problem in their life, namely lack of female attention, hell any social validation. They are stuck watching facebook where every weekend people pile on pictures of how much partying everyone else in college is doing. They feel a little hurt, possibly angry.

As a smart technically COMPETENT kid they turn to what everyone does to solve their problems. They start googling. This drags them to some pretty hellish parts of the internet, places where other people who don't get laid try to figure out WHY and clever people sell them reasons. They end up looking at money/steroids/weird social manipulation/forget women all together.

Most of the attempts to do what the internet (see other guys who googles why am I not getting laid) tells them alienates them further from "normal" people and creates an awesome feedback loop as they return to their forums about how it still doesn't work because they need XYZ to finally become a "normal" human being. The harder they try the more resentment they feel for girls, even when they suceed and retreat back to the forums to tell other people how women only like X and they only suceed because of it.

what is rape culture? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111485)

i've known some pretty bad people in my life, but never someone who raped anyone
i know there are people who do it, but it's not like every guy does it. small percentage
and a lot of incidents are clouded by alcohol and drugs both parties take

Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111493)

ItÃ(TM)s a standard frustrated angry geeky guy manifesto, except for the part about mass murder.

The underlying theme "Why don't girls like nice guys?" Is not limited to "geeks". I've heard plenty of teenagers and 20 something guys say that. The reality is, it's no different than women whining about what Men prefer in women. The difference this time is some moron thought it was justification for randomly killing people

Misogyny, Entitlement, and [other classifier] (5, Insightful)

jeffb (2.718) (1189693) | about 2 months ago | (#47111499)

So, while the main threads of this discussion will certainly have no trouble sustaining combustion, what happens if we change the title to:

Misogyny, Entitlement, and Muslims

Misogyny, Entitlement, and Hispanics

Misogyny, Entitlement, and The 1%

Is it still open season on Nerds? Will I not get in trouble for binding "those people" to Nerds, as opposed to Blacks, or Jews, or... ?

Re:Misogyny, Entitlement, and [other classifier] (1)

Skarjak (3492305) | about 2 months ago | (#47111709)

This is such an underrated post. The logic behind "groups we are allowed to stereotype/insult" and "groups we aren't allowed to stereotype/insult" appears very flimsy to me. Might be better to just accept that stereotyping entire groups of people is wrong, no matter the group in question. Imagine the shitstorm if race was mixed with this subject. Yet, really, why should it be any different?

Re:Misogyny, Entitlement, and [other classifier] (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111757)

They did the title that way because they're using the same tactics Gawker does. Post a headline that's intentionally controversial and contains opinions that are almost guaranteed to piss people off in order to bait people into clicking on their articles. Kotaku does this ALL THE TIME with video games. For instance, one of their most famed commentators is Patricia Hernandez, who frequently posts articles about how popular games are "sexist" and people should be ashamed to be playing them. Does Patricia Hernandez care about sexism? Maybe, who knows. Does Patricia Hernandez get paid by the number of clicks, and thus ad impressions, on her article? Yes, she does, and she likely cares more about her paycheck than calling out sexism that isn't there.

There's also people like Jason Schrier, who was outspoken about how sexist Dragon's Crown was (mostly for the large-breasted sorceress character). The artist behind the game did everything on purpose to give the characters unique silhouettes (since it's a Shadows over Mystara style action game), but Schrier wrote article after article about it, each one garnering thousands of clicks from people who clicked the article merely to tell him off. He actually garnered several thousand hits about how he was going to boycott one of the major trade shows/conventions (I think it might've been PAX) because the press passes for that featured art from Dragon's Crown on them.

Does Jason Schrier care about sexism? No, probably not, and most feminists would probably reject him simply for being male. Does he care about his paycheck? Hell yes he does.

There have been numerous articles examining Gawker's clickbaiting behavior, and this seems to be more of the same.

I don't know why /. keeps posting this tripe. (2)

spads (1095039) | about 2 months ago | (#47111503)

And I am really not in the mood to exhaust myself (to some measureable extent) (once more) (is that the actual intent???) refuting A, B, C, and D,..., in such as this standard, packaged doggerel. Perhaps I will at least read the thing (first line or two) at some point, given some level of boredom.

All I can say, is learn to think for yourself, see what makes sense to you, do your best to comport yourself in a reasonable way, all things considered.

Heraclitus: Latent structure is master of obvious structure.

Neil Young: There's more to the picture, than meets the eye, hey-hey, my-my.

Andersen: The Emperor has no clothes!

rediculous parents to blame (1)

ctime (755868) | about 2 months ago | (#47111505)

Is this a direct offshoot of our "never a loser" upbringing? I'm afraid these kids who go out on a rampage, thinking the entire time *they* are the victim, may actually be a victim of the coddled upbringing that seems to be commonplace since the 90's. I'm talking about helicopter parents who refuse to let their children get Bs, get second place (or even, god forbid, last place) in any kind of competition. Then we see them unable to understand and cope with failure later in life and blame others instead of accepting defeat. Like most people, I blame the parents. I blame them for not letting them fail. Parents should provide positive influence and basic necessities for children, then get the hell out of the way and let children grow up on their own.

Children who grow up without siblings (ie compeition for parents time) seem to be particularly narrisistic and useless when combined with overbearing and coddling parents. Those

Re:rediculous parents to blame (1)

RobinH (124750) | about 2 months ago | (#47111671)

It's hard to believe that some parenting activity like never letting your child experience a negative emotion is actually causing a increase in violent crime, especially since, from everything I've heard, overall violent crime is down significantly. Also, if there are lots and lots of kids getting this type of parenting, we certainly aren't seeing a cause-effect relationship here, because otherwise there would be millions of murderous little bastards running around, and we just don't see that. Seems much more likely that there are (and have always been) some people with mental illnesses, and some of them are liable to do nasty things that most of us would never do. Your argument is nothing more than the get-off-my-lawn variety (and I'm an old guy who likes to push my kids to experience failure once in a while).

Wow (5, Insightful)

Poorcku (831174) | about 2 months ago | (#47111507)

"No, not the straw man that all men are constantly plotting rape, but that we live in an entitlement culture where guys think they need to be having sex with girls in order to be happy and fulfilled." I really don't know where to begin and which line of thought should i follow when answering this idiotic sentence. From the meta-level fact that we as a species need to have sex in order to survive? From the evolutionary point of view, where lust is a mechanism of encouraging and rewarding intercourse? From the psychological point of view where the need for intimacy self-fulfillment and for high self-esteem is highly entangled with need of finding a partner? So "what the fuck is wrong with us?". Maybe the correct question is: "what the fuck is wrong with him?"

Doesn't apply at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111513)

Even by geek standards, this guy was a schmuck.

More importantly, he was in therapy pretty much his entire life. How did California miss that when giving him a gun license? (even though he killed a number of people with a knife and his car)

In the words of Chris Rock, what ever happened to crazy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]

"When I was a kid, they used to separate the crazy kids from everybody."

Not a bad idea.

idiocy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111515)

The entire premise of the article is bullshit. Everything is a two-way street.

Another low-quality "article" on /.

This is BULLSHIT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111517)

Personally, I think it's our culture's way of continuing to tease and make fun of "nerds" (of which there's a big difference between "Nerds" and "Geeks").

In this context, Nerds are pathetic, (usually) smart, ugly, socially ignorant and *always* panned by every other clique ... and are almost always boys.

I believe the stories are intentionally written, so that we can get a kick out of the pathetic attempts of these people to "win love", but more importantly, to laugh at their social awkwardness. It's no fun to write a story where one Nerd falls in love with another. It's more fun to watch them ignorantly pursue non-Nerds, with one gaffe after another, we collectively laugh at their un-known embarrassment.

While many of these gags, when looking at the collective body of 30 years of movies, will show misogynistic situations (which I'm 100% sure are true), I believe the true intention is to bully this group and maintain a clique of social outcasts for decades to come.

While I've always been a GEEK, being athletic and having *some* social skills, has kept me out of the NERD category. There was a time when starring at a computer screen, far removed from physical, social contact was considered geeky. After many decades of being a GEEK, I look around to see everyone is now doing it and I often mutter the word "GEEK" or "NERDS".

You know what'll help? (2)

kruach aum (1934852) | about 2 months ago | (#47111523)

Telling people who feel like Elliot Rodger that they're not a victim. This will help because 1) they'll believe it, and 2) believing it will solve their issues with reality.

Or perhaps not.

Perhaps it will simply fuel their hatred even more, because now they're even having the reality of their emotions denied, as if they're somehow defective in that respect too.

Assigning victims and victimizers here is completely irrelevant to finding out what's actually wrong with this situation, and how to fix it.

Re:You know what'll help? (1)

kick6 (1081615) | about 2 months ago | (#47111623)

Telling people who feel like Elliot Rodger that they're not a victim. This will help because 1) they'll believe it, and 2) believing it will solve their issues with reality. Or perhaps not. Perhaps it will simply fuel their hatred even more, because now they're even having the reality of their emotions denied, as if they're somehow defective in that respect too. Assigning victims and victimizers here is completely irrelevant to finding out what's actually wrong with this situation, and how to fix it.

Nothing would have helped him. He was CONVINCED that women were a certain way, and that they wanted certain things from men. Certain things he possessed. What made him furious is that he was COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG, and this is quite obvious in his fury at the men getting what he wanted from women that didn't offer those women any of the things he was certain they wanted - and he was willing to offer. He was unwilling to see the reality of how people actually are because his entire ego was based on the pretty lies that most of society has told us about how people "should be." At best, getting him to see the truth would have pushed him to suicide.

Why Print the Killer's Name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111535)

When we print and publicize the names of killers, we inadvertently elevate them and encourage others to imitate their actions. Why give them the glory of infamy? We can just call him "the gunman" of the particular tragedy.

ectremism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111545)

begets more extremism. #yesallwomen have to deal with a culture that extols misogyny as a core value of society. this is a welcome discussion that we should all have, but it doesn't help to lump mass groups of people into stereotypes. maybe in this discussion we should be talking about motivations, triggers, root causes, nature vs nurture rather than simplifying things by blaming large groups of people.

by lumping people into stereotypes we are creating defensiveness and retaliation that does nothing to help the cause. i understand that its easier to point the finger at people rather than at root causes, but with out addressing the root causes how can we alter the way society thinks

No. Just No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111549)

I'm a hard core nerd that doesn't have any problem picking up women. Asking why nerds are antisocial dickheads is pretty much like asking why women are bitches and tells us a lot more about you than it does about nerds or women.

painting people with the same brush... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111559)

Okay.. I don't even know what the fuck this story is about?

If some asshole geeks don't know how to treat other human beings with respect, why is that my problem?
I treat my fellow humans, male or female with the same level of respect.

This isn't about geeks vs non-geeks, this about people who were never taught how to act right in civil society.

So really, what the fuck does this has to do with "geek culture" or whatever the fuck that is supposed to be?

As for the writer, go fuck yourself.

WTF are you talkinga about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111573)

WTF are you talking about?
Seriously! Did you get PW over the weekend or did your wife and mommy tuned in to a feminazi and washed your brain really-really hard?

Be happy you are a man. For f* sake, BE A MAN! I mean a gentleman and not a some idiotic gaveman or this "modern" girlish boy (almost faggot like) with serious issues etc.
Thank the gods women and men are not equal and are different! This why women are so lovable - they are not like men, they are opposite sex!

It's not about being a "nerd"... (4, Insightful)

NitzJaaron (733621) | about 2 months ago | (#47111583)

...it's about how you were raised, what ethics and morals were instilled in your most influential years, and your overall social development. Being a "nerd" or a "geek" has nothing to do with it, except that it's generally more normal for people who are classified as such to have been socially outcast or on the fringe at some point in their early (pre-adult) lives.

This guy was a complete a-hole, that's a given. He was also from a wealthy family and had a tremendous sense of entitlement. I'd venture that a good part of his misogyny has a basis in that upbringing and entitled lifestyle.

Let's leave the labels out of it and have a real discussion about mental health and social attitudes for a change.

some random freak shoots 4 men &2 women and bl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111591)

Some random freak shoots 4 men &2 women and blame goes to world's most men from especially from STEM fields. Only men are the problem ? Does it take only one hand to clap ? It is stupid articles like these which creates Elliot Rodgers and Valerie Solanas.

Don't know who paid this whiteknight enough money to write up such a pathetic script. Feminism is a business now which feeds lobbying groups. It destabilizes families, make society sick these days. Elliot Rodgers is a result of that.

I blame Anonymous Cowards (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 2 months ago | (#47111597)

When we can all post online as AC and have TV shows like Tosh.0 and other animated shows where all the adult males are jerks and misogynistic, it's unrealistic to expect young men to think they aren't supposed to be the same.

That and the societal breakdown created by the Entitled Techies and their CEO golf buddies.

I'm assuming. (1, Insightful)

tthomas48 (180798) | about 2 months ago | (#47111605)

Assuming posting this on Slashdot was an attempt to prove verify the author's thesis. Bravo. The comment thread proves the veracity of everything he says.

Who on earth likes this sexist stuff? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111607)

Can we please avoid posting sexist drivel like this? If I want to be attacked for being my gender I would go over to SRS on reddit. I come here for tech news and this is inappropriate.

It's not "rape culture," it's immaturity. (1)

B33rNinj4 (666756) | about 2 months ago | (#47111625)

The OP's statement of living in a rape culture is elitist and needs to be toned down. We don't have a rape culture in the US. Women aren't being systematically raped as a form of control, so please stop using that term. It's melodramatic, and pointless. What we have is a geek society that is attention-hungry and immature. More and more of us are growing up with the internet, and the sense of anonymity it provides. They haven't learned simple respect of others, and that you can have competition without belittling people, and trampling their self-esteem. Plus, you have a biased media that is more focused on ratings than actual journalistic integrity. It's a media that will spend weeks to months picking apart every detail of a tragedy, and inadvertently give a person a kind of morbid immortality. Now, all that said, I don't know what the answer is. I don't think it's a black or white issue with a simple fix.

Chu's certainly up on his current events... (1)

bwcbwc (601780) | about 2 months ago | (#47111629)

but his history is pretty weak. Up until the rise of the internet in the '90s (or possibly the "Weird Science"/"Revenge of the Nerds" era in the 1980s), nerds/geeks/otaku were right up there with gays, women and ethnic/religious minorities for being bullied, harassed and abused by the crueler edges of the mainstream. And this kind of harassment still goes on in certain areas/communities - try being a geek in a gang-ridden slum sometime.

That certainly doesn't justify a nerd perpetuating the cycle of abuse onto women or any of the other groups. But it does mean that there are better ways to engage the "nerd community" than by claiming that they aren't the subjects of abuse themselves.

Female rape culture is bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111647)

It was a phrase coined to describe the systemic and accepted rape of men in American jails, it was and is a real problem however the feminista have co-opted the phrase to basically mean anything from a shitlord neckbeard (body shaming is OK when it's against the "oppressor") who happened to glance at a proud womyn to a comedian telling a joke to basically anything that isn't systemic and accepted rape. Feminists should fuck off and die and take their mens right counterparts with them, real people worry about equality or at the very least the plight of real opressed women in other countries, not rich "priveleged out their ass" women who wouldn't know what oppression was if it jackbooted them in the face, forever. Western feminists care about fuck all about mens issues (other than to say feminists are working on those as well, yeah OK, certainly not in Toronto they weren't) and very little about real oppression in other countries and vice versa for MRA's so they can all go fuck themselves.

Who is responsible for their own actions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111649)

Glass ceiling = not taking responsibility for our own lives and actions and always blaming others.

This is why nerd/geek girls are in such demand. They dont act like their crotch should get them a job and they have the brains to back it up.

They are the ones at the cons wearing elaborate costumes rather than the typical wannabe with her tights and cape that took all of 30 minutes to put together. Not everyone has to be a slutty superhero for the con.

Stop whining that you got groped at a con while wearing an outfit that would make satan blush.

I don't think 'nerds' are capable of rape... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111657)

What is this bullshit? Why is he talking about "us", how dare he try to include ALL men in this rubbish. Perhaps he needs to find better friends?

rape culture? (0, Flamebait)

Killall -9 Bash (622952) | about 2 months ago | (#47111667)

Rape culture?
Here's what rape culture is: women are many times more likely to get raped by someone they know, but they want to blame ALL MEN. That's your fucking "rape culture".

Nerds are the bad guys now? LOL! Give me a break.

Yes, there is much misogyny in nerd culture, and I am proud of it. Women have in the past, and CONTINUE to reject *authentic* nerds, and we are RIGHTLY angry about this.

I point out nerd authenticity, as there seems to be some confusion as to whether or not nerds are sexy now. They are not. What you think is nerd sexyness is hipster faggotry. Leonard on TBBT doesn't dress nerd, he dresses hipster.

Nerd culture is male, and to pretend geek girls actually exist is silly. Sure, you see chicks at conventions; Damaged girls looking for attention and/or whores trying to get their hands into your geeky wallet.

*REAL* geek girls only exist if you modify the meaning of the word. Is someone obsessed with Korean soap operas a geek? Is a polyglot a geek? Is someone obsessed with knitting a geek? No, no, and GOD NO.

The correct term is Pathological Narcissist. (5, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 2 months ago | (#47111681)

Really people you have it backwards the cause was no misogyny that is a symptom.
If this guy had been gay he would have hated men that did not want to sleep with him.
If this person had been a straight woman she would have hated men that would not sleep with her.
If this person had been a gay woman she would have hated women that would not sleep with her.

They key here is Narcissist. It is selfishness taken to a pathological level. People like that hate those that do not give them what they want.

Let's do the math. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111701)

5 males and 2 females got killed.

Yeah, it's definitely a femalecentric problem.

Elliot Rodger was not a Nerd (1)

avandesande (143899) | about 2 months ago | (#47111703)

Nerds are passionate about things- ER didn't care about anything other than means to bolster his fragile constantly damaged ego.

Stupid Blame Game (5, Insightful)

Mullen (14656) | about 2 months ago | (#47111715)

Why is Elliot Rodger being put into the Nerd category? I have not seen anything on this guy that would put him in the Geek or Nerd category. What languages did he code in? What con's did he attend? What was his comic book/manga collection like? What technical degree's did he hold? This discussion has nothing to do with "misogyny entitlement nerds" but a genuine crazy kid.

Just because some guy is a Asperger social reject does not put him into the category of nerd or geek. Elliot has major issues and he blamed women and people who had social skills for his troubles. He was an entitled little shit who thought having a BMW, traveling the world and wearing $500 sweaters would automatically get him the girls. It turns out he lacked the one major component in the Get The Girl Formula that you really need, a personality. He found an outlet in Men's Rights/The Red Pill/Misogyny but he could have found an outlet in any of the other shitty beliefs that exist in our society like 9/11 conspiracies, Little Green Men and the Black President is from Kenya. Blaming a sub collection of a sub portion of our culture is not going to find the answer to the complex problem of what to do with truly mentally ill people.

Re:Stupid Blame Game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111741)

Why is Elliot Rodger being put into the Nerd category? I have not seen anything on this guy that would put him in the Geek or Nerd category. What languages did he code in? What con's did he attend? What was his comic book/manga collection like? What technical degree's did he hold?

He's a nerd not a geek.

Not all just women issues (1)

LilWolf (847434) | about 2 months ago | (#47111719)

women getting vicious insults flung at them online

Everyone who is visible on the internet will get vicious insults thrown at them, be they man or female. If you're on the internet, putting yourself out there on youtube videos or what ever, you need to learn to deal with it.

odd choice of references... (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 2 months ago | (#47111731)

He mentioned that Revenge of the Nerds had a scene of what would be legally defined as rape, but there was plenty of other films around that time that featured attempted assault/rape/murder taken in a fairly light manner. it's also odd to pin that on 'nerds', as the way I understand it, the majority of rape happens in scenarios at least resembling a date or going out, both activities typically not strongly associated with nerds.

Misandry and Mental Health (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111739)

So much of what is coming out of #YesAllWomen is misandry disguised as fighting misogyny. Firefox is telling me misandry isn't even a word for crying out loud.

Elliot Rodger was a mental health issue, it had nothing to do with gender. Whether he got his orders from The Beatles backwards music, Allah or porn culture, the fact is he was mentally broken. Shame on the media and shame on you for distracting from the problem, mental health issues, and making it a gender issue just to get more tweets.

Despite men in the U.S. suffering violent death at a rate more than three times that of women we get campaigns to end violence, but only against women.

He could have gotten laid for less than the cost of the gun. He could have killed just women rather than more men then women. He didn't. Misogyny is an excuse, a convenient one for people to express their misandry.

I must really be a freak (1)

AkkarAnadyr (164341) | about 2 months ago | (#47111749)

We're not the ones where one out of six of us will have someone violently attempt to take control of our bodies in our lifetimes.

So, nerds never get beaten up in school, then.

Back to figuring out What Is Wrong With Me ...

What Are Misogynist Geeks So Afraid Of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47111767)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/18/what-are-misogynist-geeks-so-afraid-of/

Is it me or is slashdot in real decline ? (2)

nomad63 (686331) | about 2 months ago | (#47111777)

This is the 3rd post I am reading today, that has nothing to do with technology other than talking about an angry geek (this particular post, other are just similar). I knew the posting quality will decline after the resignation of R. Malda, but this is becoming ridiculous lately. Is this me or other old timers are feeling the same ?
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