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Finding the Next Generation of Teachers With "Innovative Microsoft Ads"

samzenpus posted about 5 months ago | from the blue-screen-101 dept.

Microsoft 122

theodp (442580) writes "Back in 2011, the U.S. Dept. of Education delegated teacher recruitment to Microsoft (RFP, pdf). 'The decision to turn over TEACH to [Microsoft] Partners in Learning serves to expand the already outsized influence Gates and his fortune have on public education,' wrote the Washington Post at the time. So, 'what happens when a public institution in a democracy — the US Department of Education — outsources its goal of recruiting good teachers to a private industry?' Well, in addition to Teach.org and redundant social media efforts on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube, the U.S. is now relying on 'Innovative Microsoft Advertising to Recruit the next Generation of Teachers'. From the press release, 'The Ad Council and TEACH have formed a unique outreach campaign with Microsoft's Advertising team in an effort to recruit the next generation of teachers who will drive innovation and redefine teaching in K-12 classrooms. Microsoft donated over 125 million impressions across Xbox 360, Windows 8, and MSN in order to encourage consumers to rediscover teaching through interactive ad units. This media effort is an extension of the Ad Council and TEACH's public service advertising (PSA) campaign, Make More...Throughout March, consumers were able to engage with TEACH "NUads on Xbox", via gesture, voice or controller on their Xbox 360 consoles...Most recently, Microsoft leveraged their Windows 8 platform to provide a unique experience to consumers, enabling them to navigate through a series of questions to help "discover their true passion," along with the opportunity to play challenging mind and word games, such as a word scramble and tangrams.' Check out the demo of the Windows 8 platform experience [YouTube], in which a person is advised 'You'd Make a Great Science & Tech Teacher,' on the basis of a 'Personality Quiz' consisting of five dragged-and-dropped photos."

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Gates wants your children (4, Insightful)

globaljustin (574257) | about 5 months ago | (#46853633)

M$ shouldn't be allowed anywhere **near** children.

Gates is trying to end public education with his charter school fund.

This stupid, reductive, publicity-focued initiative is just another in an expensive line of turds M$ has dropped in the education punch bowl

Get these data-gathering, exploitative, anti-user businesses AWAY FROM OUR KIDS

As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

Without the above, no ammount of tech, "social media" or "big data" will ever make even a dent in the problem

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

cascadingstylesheet (140919) | about 5 months ago | (#46853681)

As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

How highly do you want them to be paid?

The average teacher salary in Michigan, for example, is in the 60Ks, for nine months of work (and so really in the upper 80Ks adjusted for working nine months).

Without the above, no ammount of tech, "social media" or "big data" will ever make even a dent in the problem

Now tech not being a panacea and often being a waste, I agree with.

Re:Gates wants your children (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853721)

Check your math, 60K for a teacher for 9 months work, means no money for 3 months.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854349)

Check your math, 1/3 of 9 months is 3. 1/3 of 60k is 20k, so they have the equilivent of a 80,000 a year job. Even 60,000 over 12 months is 5k a month and since you dont seem to know this, teachers usually spread out their checks over 12 months, so how about 5k a month for 3 months of no work? Not too aweful is it.

Re:Gates wants your children (4, Interesting)

frisket (149522) | about 5 months ago | (#46854807)

I don't know what the fuck your teachers do during the "vacations" but in my country they do stuff like accompanying educational visits with their pupils, marking exams, preparing the next year's syllabus, getting up to date on their subject, doing all the paperwork they didn't have time to do in term-time, and — if they can afford it — actually having a vacation of their own.

Maybe I'm wrong; maybe US teachers just sit on the porch and drink beer all vacation long. I doubt it. The violent jealousy you show toward their "3 months of no work" perhaps shows how little you know about the educational system. If you want to fix it, get your politicians to change the school system so that classes go on all year, just like regular work does.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 5 months ago | (#46855055)

Cause subjects taught in K-12 change yearly. /sarc

Preparing the syllabus is copying it. Tests are graded before grades are issued. Educational trips with students are paid.

Teachers usually work a summer job. They are generally adequately paid. If they weren't, there would be a shortage. See economics 1.

Science and math teachers are underpaid, but politically it is impossible to pay them fairly without overpaying the rest.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856165)

The vast majority of them do one of 2 things: (1) vacation (2) work a seasonal job. Your violent spewing (and projection, I might add) is all the worse because it comes from a position of pure ignorance.

Re:Gates wants your children (2)

Locando (131600) | about 5 months ago | (#46857037)

To you and the GP: don't know about other states, but in California it's just a hair over two months off during the summer, not three. (There are of course winter and spring breaks as well.) It's very common for teachers to have their paychecks spread out across 12 months rather than 10, but it's the individual's choice how to do it.

Also: when you see the averages, take into account that they include both teachers a year before retirement and those fresh out of college. From what I've seen, the pay is usually quite all right when you start off, especially if you enter with a master's (not uncommon these days), but the raises are laughable. When you consider that high school teachers effectively work at least 50 hours a week (unless they've been teaching the same subject for at least ten years or so), pulling in $50k/year or less gets old pretty fast, especially if you're living in an area with a high COL that leads to much higher private sector salaries for the highly educated. Doubly so if you're teaching at a crappy, dangerous school in the ghetto or its suburban equivalent, which is where the vast majority of job openings are in said areas. Stress in the tech sector simply cannot compare. Two months off seems like the only humane option come June when that's the case.

(Smaller cities and rural areas are a whole 'nother kettle of fish, I know. But I don't think I hear as much complaining about teacher salaries in those parts, at least not in states where teachers are unionized.)

Re: Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46855013)

Jeez! please! i live in one of the most expensive areas: SoCal, yet i (barely) manage to pay mortgage, health and car insurance, car, etc, etc, with only $43k gross last year, and like any other American trucker we work in average 60-65 hrs a week
(truckers don't have other federal protection labor laws because they said we are interstate workers :-(

Re:Gates wants your children (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853723)

Most teachers spend the summer teaching summer school, or attending conferences or continuing education, a lot of summer related educational expenses are also unpaid. I know one or two teachers every year (our of the hundreds I deal with) that take a two+ month long holiday, but I'll be that those numbers are the same for most people in most industries, with the difference being that you can expense your educational conferences and continuing education in the non-public teaching realm.

60k is good but not great and if you're intelligent enough to be able to teach my child, you're intelligent enough to know you can make more for less work in a field that doesn't subject you to abuse a good portion of the time.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 5 months ago | (#46854651)

I have friends who are teachers - most summers they aren't doing anything education-related, since the CE requirement is on the order of once every 3-5 years.

Some of them just take the summer off. One guy I know works construction in the summer.

Decent teachers deserve to make decent pay; but at least in my state (Washington) they actually do make a good salary nowadays. The stories about poor starting salaries are from 20-30 years ago. However, like most of us, they still would like to be paid more than they currently make.

order of magnitude more (4, Insightful)

globaljustin (574257) | about 5 months ago | (#46853921)

How highly do you want them to be paid?

you're splitting pennies for one of the essential functions of human existence: teachers to our young...

however we just pass MILLIONS$$$ and BILLIONS$$$ around when discussing business executive pay or defense contracts

it's absolutely ridiculous, from a free market capitalist perspective, to expect to get the best people for a fraction of what they typically can earn in other fields

Re:order of magnitude more (1)

exomondo (1725132) | about 5 months ago | (#46855931)

you're splitting pennies for one of the essential functions of human existence: teachers to our young...

however we just pass MILLIONS$$$ and BILLIONS$$$ around when discussing business executive pay or defense contracts

Nobody is "splitting pennies", you think they should be paid more so he's asking how much they should be paid, very simple. And you can stop crying poor in comparison to defense spending, the US spends more on Education annually [usgovernmentspending.com] than it does on defense, in excess of $1 trillion in fact.

Re:order of magnitude more (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856187)

Stop muddying this pity party with facts, you jerk!

Re:order of magnitude more (1)

rtb61 (674572) | about 5 months ago | (#46857255)

Well that is down to stupid management practices much like the US's dysfunctional law enforcement. Instead of managing these once at state level, with Federal funding simply going direct to the state to distribute. You have this idiotic broken up model, with management repeated again and again and again and well, hundreds even thousands of times at county level, with those same management costs spent, again and again and again. Want to fix it, start taking more stuff out of the counties hand and pushing it up to state level management. Stop the high cost of distributing Federal funds to each county, thousands upon thousands, with all the monitoring and auditing that is required and repeated yet again by state's with state funding and simply pass federal funds to 50 state departments of education which then manage all public schools in the state. Private schools should not receive funds as, they are private and exclusionary, for them to accept government funds, they should be forced to accept all students within their catchment area and should not be able to exclude any ie take public funds then you are required to be accessible by all of the public, want to be private and exclude students by reason of IQ, race, religion, or bank balance of the parents than be private and fully privately funded.

Re:order of magnitude more (1)

globaljustin (574257) | about 5 months ago | (#46860533)

the answer is (still) in the subject line:

"order of magnitude more"

do you know what "order of magnitude" means?

just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O... [wikipedia.org]

Re:order of magnitude more (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856867)

it's absolutely ridiculous, from a free market capitalist perspective, to expect to get the best people for a fraction of what they typically can earn in other fields

Quite the opposite.

The free market capitalist perspective is that the best people already got theirs, and you and yours can eat shit and die.

Theirs will be taught by the best people. You and yours can pay for it yourself, if you are so goddamned bright you'd already have enough money.

however we just pass MILLIONS$$$ and BILLIONS$$$ around when discussing business executive pay or defense contracts

The best deserve the best. The system is working as designed. Have a nice day!

Re:Gates wants your children (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853943)

You may want to watch the following video from an *actual* teacher...
    So You Want to be a Teacher? -- Time [youtube.com]

It is only one of his "So You Want to be a Teacher" videos that give an insider's perspective on the teaching profession for those of you who think teaching is a normal 8a-4p job, I have never heard of another job that requires so much mandatory, unpaid, extra-curricular work in my life.

Just ask yourself if you would take this job for say... $60k/year.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 5 months ago | (#46855065)

There is no group in the world that bitches and complains as much as teachers. Take it with a huge grain of salt.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856205)

I keep hoping someone will dole out a subsidy to pay for the nails they go through putting themselves up on their crosses. On the other hand, they're pretty easy to keep happy with low salaries; you just have to repeatedly tell them how incredibly special they are, how they have the world's most important job, and that - gosh - if they didn't do this incredibly important and special job, no one else would, nor even *could*. Listening to them whine about their pay, etc. is pretty cheap.

Re:Gates wants your children (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853945)

Before I met my wife, a teacher, I might have assumed the same thing you did -- 9 months of pay, with 3 months vacation (actually it's only 2 plus a few extra days; school years usually start in late August here now). She works 3-4 hours, on average, extra each day -- getting up super-early to get supplies (she teaches TWO 'prep-heavy' classes -- horticulture and art, since no one wanted to teach hort and she had to revive the school's program single-handedly). It's like every class is a science lab. Then she stays late to do more prep that she won't be able to get to the next morning.. organizing field trips with reams of paperwork (at our school board the teachers have been getting more and more of the paperwork duties, admin used to do it but now the board is in full CYA-mode after some field trip incidents -- oh did I mention she had to get her school bus license since they cut all of the drivers?)

She pays for snacks out of her (our) own pockets a few days each week, so the kids have something before lunch as many of them don't get a good breakfast -- they are impossible to teach otherwise. None of this gets her any overtime or time-in-lieu or counts against her yearly class budget. Honestly with all the extra time she pulls she has legitimately banked up that 2-month vacation.

Teachers should indeed be paid well. Or, get many, many more teachers so the workload isn't a total burnout, and the teachers can work regular hours. Either way, more needs to be spent (in the RIGHT places, not administration or 'metrics' bullshit). If the paperwork, workload and class sizes were reduced, perhaps teachers could be you know, teachers.

In Canada BTW.. I can't imagine how it must be in the US.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

cascadingstylesheet (140919) | about 5 months ago | (#46854275)

Mind you, that's three months in the summer ... plus two weeks for Christmas, one week for Spring Break, a four day weekend for "mid-Winter break", oh, and every other conceivable holiday, and some that aren't conceivable.

My point was that they are well paid. They aren't underpaid. I posted facts - the actual average salary. That's a good salary for twelve months, let alone less than nine (counting all those breaks).

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854365)

You must have married the 1 teacher I have not met. The ones I know, usually send their kids to the computer labs for busy work while they stay in their class and either work on their worthless online masters degree, or do their football brackets. I have worked in schools for 6 years and have yet to meet a single teacher who puts in 3-4 extra hours a day. As tech support, I get to see everything they are doing and can tell you without a doubt YOUTUBE and NETFLIX do the bulk of teaching now days.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46855343)

My mother was a teacher. She also banked the extra 3-4 hours of work.
Her hours were pretty much 7-6. This isn't counting that she was expected
to be at any extra activities her "kids" were participating in so it was
common for her to be at some sort of recital, basketball game, etc... at the
school several times a week. You teach because you love to teach and
because you can afford to teach. 90% of the teachers I know are only
teachers because their husband makes double or triple their salary in some
other career outside of teaching. You meet very few male teachers and
even fewer single parents who are teachers.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856441)

Oh, there are definitely good and bad teachers; in fact she finds she can't stand some at her school. They seem to linger in the staff room during their supposed preptime while she's running around prepping.

And she considers putting in a video a cop-out unless it's strictly class-related and a quiz/exercise can be made out of it. That's why she works so hard on lesson planning. It takes a *lot* of work to keep a classfull of kids engaged and focused day in, day out.

Just like any career, you'll find slackers and hard workers. Doesn't mean the good ones shouldn't be paid well; it means the slackers need to be found and weeded out. Teachers' unions are a love-hate thing, on the one hand, they're needed to keep the school board and provincial government from just running roughshod over teachers; on the other hand, they make it really hard to cut out the dead wood.

Re:Gates wants your children (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853981)

How highly do you want them to be paid?

The average teacher salary in Michigan, for example, is in the 60Ks, for nine months of work (and so really in the upper 80Ks adjusted for working nine months).

Well; if you want to have decent people then the answer is much more than that. Currently the average IT person is probably earning about $100k. This is someone who can barely communicate and often doesn't have a higher degree. Certainly not someone who you would want in charge of the future of your country, educating it's children. Then let's take the hell which is being a teacher and having to deal with the demands of the various parents and the risks that some mad people are going to come around blaming you for leading the children into witchcraft. I certainly wouldn't teach in a high school for less than 50% extra on top of my normal salary. Let's say that we go for people who are more "service oriented" and actually like the idea. We still want to pay around $130k as a minimum.

If you pay peanuts you will get monkeys. If you pay $60k you will get the current lot of whiners Simply put, the market says the minimum reasonable price for a teacher is at least double what it is currently.

Re: Gates wants your children (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 5 months ago | (#46854053)

Meanwhile, in the real world, 50k is already a pretty good salary.

Re: Gates wants your children (1)

frisket (149522) | about 5 months ago | (#46854827)

BS. 50k isn't even peanuts.

Re: Gates wants your children (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 5 months ago | (#46854941)

50k is the median household income in the US.

Re: Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46855361)

50k might be the median household income but it's sure not the median income of
someone with a bachelors or masters degree gainfully employed in their chosen
profession. Also, teachers salaries don't adjust to the real world. A computer
teacher doesn't make any more than any other teacher so it's no wonder that it's
hard to find a good computer teacher where at least there they can make double
or more outside of teaching.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 5 months ago | (#46855087)

Theoretically a great teacher is worth more. But to get their we would start by firing all the current teachers.

You have to remember that teachers hold education degrees, not real ones. There are exceptions.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856223)

Currently the average IT person is probably earning about $100k. This is someone who can barely communicate and often doesn't have a higher degree.

Currently the average AC is probably earning $12 billion. This is someone that doesn't have a name and can't even look up an actual number but, rather, just makes shit up as they go along. I mean, given that fact, teacher's should at least make $16 billion. amirite?!

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

cascadingstylesheet (140919) | about 5 months ago | (#46854253)

Ah, /. Where you get modded down for posting facts.

Re:Gates wants your children (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854655)

Sure, some states pay well for teachers. However, the national average is $53k and the average for my home state (NC) has finally increased to a whopping $45k. The 2013-14 salary schedule (PDF link below) indicates that entry level teachers (0-2 years of experience) are paid only $30,800/year. In the same state, CS graduates with no experience can expect to be hired by Cisco, Fidelity, IBM, and other local big companies for no less than $60,000/year. You'll note on the same salary schedule that after 36 years of teaching experience, a NC teacher with a Bachelor's degree would still be paid only $53,180 at today's rate.

I absolutely agree that teachers are very well compensated in some states. However, it cannot be ignored that teachers are paid abysmal rates in some states. It irritates me to no end when I hear people in NC talk about how overpaid teachers are -- the same people are usually surprised to hear the reality of just how little NC teachers are actually paid.

I don't know what the solution is, and I don't think the USDoE is in a position to talk about federalizing a nation-wise education system as a solution in its current form, but what we have today is terrible broken. The differences between states is rather astounding, and to use one state's context as a justification for sweeping nation-wide policy comments is disingenuous at best.

As promised, the NC 2013-14 Salary Guide: http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2013-14schedules.pdf

Re: Gates wants your children (2)

lymond01 (314120) | about 5 months ago | (#46854857)

Salary is very dependent on where you are. $60K for an entry level CS job was the going rate in Boston in 1993. In California near the Bay Area, high school teachers are paid in the $70k-$80K range for 9 months.

Re:Gates wants your children (2)

sootman (158191) | about 5 months ago | (#46855731)

> The average teacher salary in Michigan, for example, is in the
> 60Ks, for nine months of work (and so really in the upper 80Ks
> adjusted for working nine months).

Where did you get that number from? This page [nea.org] says it's only $35k for Michigan. Feel free to point me to a better source.

And as for the old "summers off" bullshit, 1) teachers often go to conferences or work on their curriculum during the summer, or come in to do admin work (due to budgets always being cut) or move the library around etc., and 2) I've never met a teacher in my LIFE who worked just 8 hours per day. So yeah, multiply to account for 2 extra months off, and then divide to account for workdays that are typically 10-12 hours.

As for "how highly do you want them to be paid"? Well, given what CEOs and anyone in the financial sector earns for continually robbing the country and fucking everything up; and given what we pay actors, entertainers, and fucking ATHLETES; and given what we're actually asking teachers to DO, I can't think of any reason that teachers should earn less than doctors.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 5 months ago | (#46853687)

From the pharaohs of ancient Egypt to the self-regarding thugs of ancient Rome to the glorified warlords of medieval and absolutist Europe, in nearly every urbanized society throughout human history, there have been people who have tried to constitute themselves as an aristocracy. These people and their allies are the conservatives.

The tactics of conservatism vary widely by place and time. But the most central feature of conservatism is deference: a psychologically internalized attitude on the part of the common people that the aristocracy are better people than they are.

http://slashdot.org/~Jeremiah+Cornelius/journal/747463 [slashdot.org]

Good Read (110% correct imo)... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853781)

Gotta hand it to you: You *may* not be a 'whizkid' in computing @ times, however, you DO bring good information to the table @ times too - &, this is 1 of them...

Another from the past was (& I'd noted this to you in the past also) when you exposed that the 13 hidden banks that compose the "Federal" reserve.

* :)

In any event? Good read, thanks for putting it out (you've got 'ecclectic qualities' about you - & sometimes, you put out information that makes me glad I read it...)

APK

P.S.=> You KNOW you're NOT going to hear THAT from me too often (actually, I like you quite a lot of all the trolls here that is - since you've got a FAR better knowledgebase & varied background vs. your "colleagues" around here (webmistressrachel, gmhowell, etc.))... apk

Re:Gates wants your children (2)

stms (1132653) | about 5 months ago | (#46853917)

As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

That's good for the few who can afford the best trained teachers in the world. Good teacher are unfortunately an inherently limited resource. You're right that in the short term big data will probably not help our children to learn much. In the long term however I think that it can help students by understanding their needs better than their teachers ever could. Check out what CGP Grey has to say about this [youtube.com] .

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854081)

You mad bro?

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

davydagger (2566757) | about 5 months ago | (#46854213)

>As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

basicly as a former teacher, all a shit you care about is how much you get paid. See this is the fucking problem.

The other problem is that entire debate about education revolves around how money is being spent and where.

The biggest problem with our education system is the prussian style obediance training.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

Locando (131600) | about 5 months ago | (#46857005)

No, that's what would make sense as a current teacher. As a former teacher, he's got perspective without conflict of interest. As a former teacher myself, I can tell you there's a lot of spending on useless shit. Where's your perspective coming from? (And I say this as someone who agrees with everything else you said!)

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854303)

M$ shouldn't be allowed anywhere **near** children.

Gates is trying to end public education with his charter school fund.

This stupid, reductive, publicity-focued initiative is just another in an expensive line of turds M$ has dropped in the education punch bowl

Get these data-gathering, exploitative, anti-user businesses AWAY FROM OUR KIDS

As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

Without the above, no ammount of tech, "social media" or "big data" will ever make even a dent in the problem

Naaah, no bias there.

Gotta love those teacher's unions. It's all about stifling competition.

"When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children."

And screw the kids - teachers have to be the "highest paid" even when the public school system is abjectly failing them.

Re:Gates wants your children (2)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 5 months ago | (#46854413)

You start running into the gold rush problem then. Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well. This is especially true in jobs where it's difficult to measure performance.

In any case the best teachers in the world are usually the child's parents. There's a direct correlation between how well kids do at school and how much time and effort their parents put into helping them at home, not to mention the general happiness and security of the home.

If anything funding should go into making parents aware of this and giving them time off work for example to help their children succeed academically.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

Uberbah (647458) | about 5 months ago | (#46856367)

You start running into the gold rush problem then. Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well. This is especially true in jobs where it's difficult to measure performance.

That's the most imaginative reason I've heard of yet for continuing crappy teacher pay. But that must extend to other professions, no? Better cut the salaries of software engineers to $35k a year, stat, before the greedy people hear about it!

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856455)

Pay too well for a job and you get people interested only in the pay, not doing the job well. This is especially true in jobs where it's difficult to measure performance.

Hmm, sounds like most CEOs and school board presidents :)

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 5 months ago | (#46855241)

Get these data-gathering, exploitative, anti-user businesses AWAY FROM OUR KIDS As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

Wait, so as a former teacher, you don't want them to gather data that might discover the best teaching practices, and the only thing that could possibly work is to pay teachers as much as possible? Seriously?

Not that you're biased or anything.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

exomondo (1725132) | about 5 months ago | (#46855885)

As a former teacher, the problem is that people want to spend money on ***EVERYTHING*** other than what will help educate children: public schools with the highest-paid, best trained teachers in the world

And exactly how much do teacher salaries have to be in order for them to properly educate children? I constantly see this crap bandied about that the only way to solve the issue of education is to throw money at the problem and pay teachers more...oddly enough this comes from teachers or former teachers or spouses of teachers. Throwing money at the problem is not the solution!

Re:Gates wants your children (2)

Uberbah (647458) | about 5 months ago | (#46856341)

Throwing money at the problem is not the solution!

Neither is repeating a talking point that was baseless 30 years ago.

And exactly how much do teacher salaries have to be in order for them to properly educate children?

How much would you want to be paid to have a teachers job? Tens of thousands in student loans to get a masters degree, 50+ hour work weeks, playing babysitter/parent/disciplinarian/counselor/doctor for a bunch of kids before even starting the teaching part, putting up with shitty parents and administrators, spend your summers continuing your education, and finally be judged on student performance when the #1 correlation for that is what kind of home the student goes home to at the end of the day. Something you have no control over whatsoever.

Not one of you snobby snots would take a teaching job for less than six figures.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

exomondo (1725132) | about 5 months ago | (#46856773)

How much would you want to be paid to have a teachers job?

That's just throwing the question back because you can't answer it. The suggestion was that the answer is to increase teacher salaries so naturally I'm asking how much they need to be at for the education system to be fixed.

Tens of thousands in student loans to get a masters degree, 50+ hour work weeks, playing babysitter/parent/disciplinarian/counselor/doctor for a bunch of kids before even starting the teaching part, putting up with shitty parents and administrators, spend your summers continuing your education, and finally be judged on student performance when the #1 correlation for that is what kind of home the student goes home to at the end of the day.

Yes all jobs have shitty aspects to them, some more than others so obviously those that don't make up for it in some way (and no, not everybody's job satisfaction is rooted in their salary) will have fewer people willing to work in them. Effectively what you're saying is the system is fine but it's the teachers that are the problem and need to be replaced so increasing the salary will bring competent teachers to replace existing ones.

Not one of you snobby snots would take a teaching job for less than six figures.

Not one of who?

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

Uberbah (647458) | about 5 months ago | (#46860575)

That's just throwing the question back because you can't answer it.

That's you projecting because your stance is unjustifiable. This isn't hard: attracting top talent requires good pay, same as any other profession, and students perform better with smaller class sizes and more teacher-hours per pupil, instead of more pupils per teacher. Which requires....wait for it...more money than skinflint social darwinists have been willing to spend.

tl;dr you get what you pay for

Yes all jobs have shitty aspects to them

Yes and again, you wouldn't touch this shitty job unless it paid six figures.

Re:Gates wants your children (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856473)

MORE teachers, meaning smaller teacher/student ratios -- and less paperwork -- would be the best way to spend extra money on education. Where I live the last time the school board went up against teachers, the teachers specifically said it was NOT about more money -- they wanted smaller classes, more teaching assistants, and less BS paperwork. The burnout problem is huge in teaching due to excessive workload and stress. No amount of pay will make that go away, but better staffing and less micromanagement will.

Re:Gates wants your children (1)

exomondo (1725132) | about 5 months ago | (#46856805)

Now that makes sense! Job satisfaction isn't all about how much money you make (well for some people it is I suppose) so funding that rather than this "highest paid teachers" idea makes a lot more sense.

what MS/Apple/etc want to teach, vs what we should (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853653)

MS, Apple, Facebook, etc: "Buy from our stores! Don't mind being locked in! Don't dare to want freedom and openness, it's scary and not good for you!"

They all want to teach kids to grow up to be good little consumers. Spending all their money at the locked-in store. Giving all their personal information to the company. Develop an app of your own? Too bad unless you want to give 30% to Apple and be under their control for whether you can even publish it or not.

Why can't we just teach openness, freedom, and having control over your own computing experience? A TRUE social internet, not the data-mined and controlled garden those companies all want us to have, so people get locked into their marketing and advertising engines, and their ecosystems.

Re:what MS/Apple/etc want to teach, vs what we sho (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853707)

+1
agreed.

Re:what MS/Apple/etc want to teach, vs what we sho (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856217)

Giving all their personal information to the company.

All what personal information? The only thing Apple has that isn't publicly available for me is my credit card number. They dont have anything else I would care about.

Develop an app of your own? Too bad unless you want to give 30% to Apple and be under their control for whether you can even publish it or not.

Or just develop it for an open platform like HTML5 web app, Android, various Linux distros, OSX or Windows (yes even Windows, so long as it isnt a ModernUI app). Nobody says you need to develop for iOS, in fact it is the minority among those other players.

Why can't we just teach openness, freedom, and having control over your own computing experience?

Because 99% of people dont give a shit about that and dont want to deal with having to control their computing experience, it's just a tool to do a job and they dont want the added overhead of control and maintenance while anybody actually interested in that can certainly learn it on their own. People get indoctrinated into the incumbent way of doing things - such is the nature of it - and don't break out of that unless they have an interest in doing so. Suggesting everybody should have to do that just because you want them to is just demonstrating how out of touch you are.

But you know what? The beauty is you could teach that if you really wanted to!

A TRUE social internet, not the data-mined and controlled garden those companies all want us to have, so people get locked into their marketing and advertising engines, and their ecosystems.

You can do that too. You dont need to utilize corporate ad networks, you dont need to mine your visitors' data and you dont have to visit websites that do that especially given the proliferation of various ad blockers and the ease of use of HOSTS files, yet another place that even Apple and Microsoft (on their desktop platforms) provide you the ability to control your computing but is rarely used by many people in practice. You could even create and host your own site that does not do these things and monetize it with a payment gateway if you must.

Some of the Free Software community do (and do well) but those who can't do, complain. And they complain loudly about any sort of corporate competition to their interests, it isnt enough to "build it and they will come", you need to build something good and really get it out there.

Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. (5, Interesting)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 5 months ago | (#46853655)

Apparently Bill Gates is still doing things to make money. When you have $70 billion, you still need more?

Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853869)

Apparently Bill Gates is still doing things to make money.

Good for him! I am sure that the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation" can use more money.

When you have $70 billion, you still need more?

Yes... why not; I am sure that the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation" can use more money.

Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. (1)

plopez (54068) | about 5 months ago | (#46854065)

The percentage of income the wealthy give to charity is miniscule compared to the middle class.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/4872514... [cnbc.com]

Donations linked to schemes to make money. (2)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 5 months ago | (#46854453)

You missed the point. Yes Mr. Gates gives money away, but he also links those donations to schemes to make more money, it seems obvious to me.

Re:Donations linked to schemes to make money. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854645)

Hmm.. I guess WHO is missing the point..

"Give money away" to earn money later on sound like "Investment" to me...

So in reality he is not giving money away, but invest money in a "raw material" (children) that can be "transformed" (brainwashed to become an non-critical, no questions asking consumer), into a profitable product (minless buyer).

Well - so much for being the "good guy"....

Re:Donations linked to schemes to make money. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46855965)

Yeah they spent billions of dollars eradicating the debilitating and deadly polio virus just so people would buy Windows PCs.

If psuedo lock-in of weak-minded individuals who can't be bothered to switch from Windows to Mac or Linux and MS Office to Libre Office is the cost to eradicate diseases like polio then that's money well spent!

Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853971)

When one becomes this rich, it isn't about money any more; it's about power and influence and 'legacy'. He's getting old, and wants to make sure lots and lots of buildings are named after him. Hoping everyone will forget the 'early years' where he f*cked over the emerging tech industry and set back OS design for a decade or two, killed off better competing software suites, etc.

Re:Apparently Bill Gates wants to make money. (1)

houghi (78078) | about 5 months ago | (#46855153)

For the super rich, money isn't something you use to buy food, chelter or the like. It is merely an indicator if you are doing well. If you have more then yesterday, it was good. If it is less then yesterday, you are doing something wrong.

It is like points in a computergame. You don't stop playing when you have the highest score. You try to be even better then you already were and get even more points.

How about (3, Informative)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 5 months ago | (#46853657)

finding the Next Generation of Teachers with more financial ad programs, better wages and an actual career path? Seriously, I know a lots of teachers and unless you're willing to drop what you're doing and hall ass to another state whenever the budget cuts come you're in for a pretty lousy time. Oh, and no, they don't take summers off. Most of them spend summers either tutoring for extra money or getting yet another degree (Masters, Doctorate) in a desperate attempt to earn a little more money :(.

Re:How about (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 5 months ago | (#46853989)

Oh, and no, they don't take summers off. Most of them spend summers either tutoring for extra money or getting yet another degree (Masters, Doctorate) in a desperate attempt to earn a little more money :(.

I work for a major airline, and a lot of our seasonal summer help (working 40hours/week all summer) are actualy teachers looking to make some extra money. Can make over $4k and you get flying benefits for the year.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854035)

This right here. My wife is a teacher and she used to work a 2nd job at a clothing store over the summer. She quit when she had our son and she watches him while I'm at work. I don't get why teacher pay is such a huge issue, but it's totally ok to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on a fighter jet that still doesn't work right.

Re:How about (1)

plopez (54068) | about 5 months ago | (#46854069)

Some of my HS teachers worked construction over the summer.

Re:How about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854373)

So your saying they make good money for 9 months and then are free to try to make even more over 1/4 of the year? Having worked as a tech coordinator for almost 6 years in school districts, I can tell you that youtube and netflix do the bulk of teaching now while the teachers work on their online masters degrees that do nothing to help the class but bump the teacher over a lane on the payscale.

Over 1/3 of our high school takes all online classes now because of how useless they feel being in a classroom is to them.

Re:How about (1)

Ultracrepidarian (576183) | about 5 months ago | (#46854519)

Perhaps you have put your finger on the problem.

Re:How about (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 5 months ago | (#46855251)

finding the Next Generation of Teachers with more financial ad programs, better wages and an actual career path?

Out of curiosity, what kind of career path do you have in mind?

TEACH "NUads on Xbox", (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853661)

DAE read that as "Nudes on Xbox"?

Is the US becoming a corporatocracy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853691)

Microsoft in education...
Cable company lobbyists in the FCC...
The whole concept of lobbying (AKA "legal bribes")...
Mandatory private health insurance instead of what every other modern country does...

Re:Is the US becoming a corporatocracy? (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 5 months ago | (#46853857)

>becoming
>implying it isn't already

whatever they're doing..isn't working (1)

kcmastrpc (2818817) | about 5 months ago | (#46853733)

my wife is enrolled in one of the top four colleges known for their educational programs and is currently the top of her class (4.0gpa). she has yet to be contacted by any type of recruiter or school district, and it looks like she's going to have to work for a semester for free before she can get her license (teacher certification).

Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853849)

A lot of it depends on what state she's looking in and what grade level she wants to teach. If she's trying to do 1st to 5th she may have a very hard time (everybody likes the little kids, and you don't need a great deal of content knowledge). If she's willing and qualified to do middle school math or science, I can get her an interview tomorrow (she'd have to move to Arizona though).

Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working (1)

kcmastrpc (2818817) | about 5 months ago | (#46854439)

she's been studying for middle school (5th through 8th, i think). we like where we're at though, (nashville, tn).

Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working (1)

Ultracrepidarian (576183) | about 5 months ago | (#46854549)

I think those first years are the most critical. A couple good teachers at the start can immunize your kids against several turkeys down the road.

Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 months ago | (#46858709)

I think those first years are the most critical. A couple good teachers at the start can immunize your kids against several turkeys down the road.

I think they're all critical. Without some good teachers in high school I might not be here today at all. Too bad nearly all the ones I had in my first high school (Harbor, in Santa Cruz) were shitheels or useless. Either they contributed to bullying or did nothing about it, which is itself a kind of contribution.

Re:whatever they're doing..isn't working (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 5 months ago | (#46855101)

Where I went to school the average GPA in education was a 3.85. They also had the lowest average SAT/ACT and HS GPAs of any school.

Take the 4.0 in education with a big old grain of salt. I knew one who drank to falling every night and carried a 4.0.

(r)evolution against deception (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853767)

'teaching' us to hate & kill for a living is almost over

Linux and Apple users need not apply (4, Interesting)

RotateLeftByte (797477) | about 5 months ago | (#46853769)

Isn't that the obvious ploy of this move.

Embrace the education establishment
Extend the curriculuim so that ONLY MS tools can be used
Extinguish all non compliant teachers as being obsolete

Barriers to teaching (1, Interesting)

trinaryai (949870) | about 5 months ago | (#46853777)

As someone who has spent his career in IT, and actually acquired a Master's Degree in Education while working IT full time, I can give a couple things that have kept me from completing the transition. The biggest, number one reason is student teaching. While I qualify to become a teacher in every way, it is impossible for me to enter a classroom in that role unless I completely give up all working for four months. I've done pretty good putting money away for emergencies; but the return on investment simply isn't there to give up an income for four months. A few places offer in-service student teaching, but the list of qualifications for those programs is very long, targeting a very specific subset of the population. One of the reasons there is such a barrier to becoming a teacher is the teacher's union. There may be some states where it's different, but the ones I know about force all registered teachers to pay dues to the union whether they want to join or not. Because education is compulsory, all taxpayers are held hostage by the union's demands. There is no option to lock out the union, no option to balance negotiations. Hiring decisions, training decisions, and certification requirements are all heavily influenced, if not completely determined, by the union. The existing status quo cannot change until either the attitude of the union changes, or the law changes to weaken the union's power.

Re:Barriers to teaching (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854457)

I agree with you on just about everything you say. I work as a tech coordinator for multiple school districts and it is a major headache and roadblock to deal with teachers who just cant get it into their head that they are an employee, not the boss. I now have to meet with some self appointed "important people" who are teachers who are trying to decide what the staff and students should get for all of their technology. From ipads to chromebooks to laptops to who gets a new desktop and who just has to have a laptop. It is a joke. All I see are the good students going in mass to online courses. I have seen a dozen times how the teachers "JUST HAVE TO HAVE" fill in the blank and then after the tens to hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars are spent that tech goes to the wayside. Usually with an excuse of "administration didnt give us the proper training". I never understood how someone can think how great a piece of equipment is and how they can claim to need it when they dont even know how to use it.

Show me the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46853829)

Anyone who would "Make a great Science & Tech teacher" can make twice as much in the private sector. I could teach any high school math or science class but I'm not taking a 70% pay cut to do it.

Once upon a time most professional careers were closed to women. This left a large number of bright young women who were willing to teach for relatively low wages. Now those bright young women are becoming physicians and attorneys and engineers and earning three to ten times a teacher's wage. But we haven't increased teaching salaries to match, so mostly the profession is mostly attracting mediocre students. Yes, there are still a few great people who love to teach and are willing to put up with public school politics and relatively low wages, and I salute them. But if we want to attract the best and brightest to teaching, we have to pay teachers like they are the best and brightest. It's not a money problem. There are 3.7 million public school teachers. We could give them all a $40K raise for $160B/year. That's maybe a tenth of the US defense budget. We just need to get our priorities straight.

kids suck (1)

steak (145650) | about 5 months ago | (#46853915)

the ability to put up other people's worthless ass kids is a calling and if it's not your calling you're going to do a shit job and the kids will continue to be worthless. there, their, and they're!

Want A Job? Buy an XBox (3)

Bob9113 (14996) | about 5 months ago | (#46853991)

Microsoft donated over 125 million impressions across Xbox 360, Windows 8, and MSN in order to encourage consumers to rediscover teaching through interactive ad units. This media effort is an extension of the Ad Council and TEACH's public service advertising (PSA) campaign, Make More...Throughout March, consumers were able to engage with TEACH "NUads on Xbox", via gesture, voice or controller on their Xbox 360 consoles.

Masters in education, good experience in other districts, just moved to the area, you may be a good candidate. Now, if you really want the job, go out and buy some Microsoft products, and then we'll give you a shot. You should also probably make sure you have created a rich and carefully crafted demographic footprint on each of the incumbent cloud surveillance networks:

Well, in addition to Teach.org and redundant social media efforts on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube,

Prostrate yourself before the oligarchy or be unemployed! Our nation cannot afford to have teachers who have any awareness of the value of attenuating corporate rule or pervasive surveillance! Young minds must be formed only by those who do not question the oligarchs!

Sounds like MS is trying to get government money (4, Insightful)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 5 months ago | (#46853999)

Who is going to pay for all this crap? Remember, LA Unified school district just shelled out something like a billion dollars for ipads. So there is big money to be made here.

The danger for the public is that it might not accomplish anything.

If all the promises of the technology pan out then its money well spent. If not, then its an unforgivable waste of finite public resources.

So You Want to be a Teacher... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854009)

So You Want to be a Teacher? -- Time [youtube.com]

Just one in a series of videos about the realities of the teaching profession.

I think schools like this one should be nominated (3, Informative)

bobstreo (1320787) | about 5 months ago | (#46854099)

Re:I think schools like this one should be nominat (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | about 5 months ago | (#46856545)

Oh no! Neither MS nor Apple? What has the world come to? How are the students going to be good software consumers? They might even begin to write their own programs! Heavens, they'll al become evil hackers!

With joy in our hearts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46854155)

As much fun as listening to the motivational bullhorns and louspeakers on some Norh-Korean style dictatorship. Primitive, totalitarian, imposing, ... well, that's all out 'marketing' brainwashing. Turn off the cellphones, find a place without mikes, cameras, satellites, or bugs - and ask any geezer who had go through that style of prison-camp 'society'.

Welcome Oligarchs! (1)

mspohr (589790) | about 5 months ago | (#46854429)

This is just another instance of oligarchs taking over government functions "because they know better". There is also more profit in it.
The oligarchs and their Republican enablers have been transferring public assets and functions to the private sector for years and the result is fewer public resources and higher costs for everyone.
All hail the Oligarchs! Capitalism triumphs!

Re:Welcome Oligarchs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46855861)

This is just another instance of oligarchs taking over government functions "because they know better". There is also more profit in it.
The oligarchs and their Republican enablers have been transferring public assets and functions to the private sector for years and the result is fewer public resources and higher costs for everyone.

I, for one, welcome our new jack-booted oligarchic overlords.

All hail the Oligarchs! Capitalism triumphs!

All hail, indeed!

Re:Welcome Oligarchs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856061)

so are you doing anything about it or just whining? i'm serious, i see a lot of rants on /. but most of the time they are posted by lazy complainers who dont even feel strongly enough about their supposed opinion to do anything about it.

public are utterly untrustworthy (1)

johnwerneken (74428) | about 5 months ago | (#46854867)

At least with business interest, chances are actual education is intended.

Consumer education - snorting into my coffee :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46855511)

"Microsoft created probono interactive advertisements .. Microsoft leveraged their Windows 8 platform to provide a unique experience to consumer"

Are you taking the piss, I can remember when slashdot was a real technology site ...

Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46856529)

Very bad idea to let private corporation mess with recruitment of teachers. Specially corporation that is known to have monopoly and will to abuse its position to stiff innovation and prevent competition by breaking standards.,,

Do we really want corporations thats main goal is increase profits to choose who gets to teach new generation of people. People that oneday need to solve problems we have created today...

Pay highly effective teachers more (1)

jacksdl (552055) | about 5 months ago | (#46858503)

My wife has been teaching for 32 years in downstate Illinois. One of two National Board Certified teachers in the district (meaning she meets the "Highly Qualified" standards for NCLB). She just past the $60K threshold last year (although with the supplies she buys it is still below that). We recently increased her monthly Salliemae payments so they will be paid off by retirement.

Research shows that highly effective teachers (teachers whose students regularly make more than 1 year of academic progress per school year) make a large and lasting difference in outcomes. More so than technology.

So identifying, rewarding and developing highly effective teachers should be a national priority. The economics of moving the median up for students would mean a huge gain for the economy.

As for Gates influencing our national education policy with his wealth, it shouldn't be possible. He can contribute to the discussion and do Foundation research, but that effort should be swamped by the dollars and attention the subject of education reform is getting. If he has too much influence, it just shows he is focusing on education while most of the rest of us aren't.

Need Security, Not Marketing (1)

eepok (545733) | about 5 months ago | (#46860151)

There are plenty of people who have just graduated high school who want to be teachers. There are plenty of people in college whose collegiate experiences inspire them to teach. The problem isn't finding teachers (or good teachers for that matter), but making sure they don't get lost in the complicated morass of certification, continuing education, and the bureaucracy of tenure. They also are, typically, willing to accept the likelihood of lower wages, but need to have proper support, small classes, and the guarantee of an good benefits and retirement plan.

Pay now or pay later. But you have to pay.

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