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The "Triple Package" Explains Why Some Cultural Groups Are More Successful

samzenpus posted about 6 months ago | from the I-am-so-great dept.

United States 397

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Yale Law School professors Amy Chua, the self-proclaimed 'Tiger Mom,' and her husband Jed Rubenfeld write in the NYT that it may be taboo to say it, but certain ethnic, religious and national-origin groups are doing strikingly better than Americans overall and Chua and Rubenfeld claim to have identified the three factors that account some group's upward mobility. 'It turns out that for all their diversity, the strikingly successful groups in America today share three traits that, together, propel success,' write Chua and Rubenfeld. 'The first is a superiority complex — a deep-seated belief in their exceptionality. The second appears to be the opposite — insecurity, a feeling that you or what you've done is not good enough. The third is impulse control.' Ironically, each element of the Triple Package violates a core tenet of contemporary American thinking. For example, that insecurity should be a lever of success is anathema in American culture. Feelings of inadequacy are cause for concern or even therapy and parents deliberately instilling insecurity in their children is almost unthinkable. Yet insecurity runs deep in every one of America's rising groups; and consciously or unconsciously, they tend to instill it in their children. Being an outsider in a society — and America's most successful groups are all outsiders in one way or another — is a source of insecurity in itself. Immigrants worry about whether they can survive in a strange land, often communicating a sense of life's precariousness to their children. Hence the common credo: They can take away your home or business, but never your education, so study harder. 'The United States itself was born a Triple Package nation, with an outsized belief in its own exceptionality, a goading desire to prove itself to aristocratic Europe and a Puritan inheritance of impulse control,' conclude Chua and Rubenfeld adding that prosperity and power had their predictable effect, eroding the insecurity and self-restraint that led to them. 'Thus the trials of recent years — the unwon wars, the financial collapse, the rise of China — have, perversely, had a beneficial effect: the return of insecurity...America has always been at its best when it has had to overcome adversity and prove its mettle on the world stage. For better and worse, it has that opportunity again today.'"

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this only works if (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46079889)

you're a libtool and say common sense things

It'll work if you want to suceed (5, Interesting)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 6 months ago | (#46080123)

When I arrived on the shore of America I had nothing.

I didn't even speak English.

To make the long story short - two of the three factors were very vital for my survival, and ultimately put me to where I am - except for the "superiority" factor, because I was less than a nothing back then.

As I grow more accustomed to the American lives, I get to know people from different cultures - for one reason or another, I find one group very very interesting - the Jews.

They are in so many ways so similar to the Chinese - and yet, they are far superior to the Chinese (yes, insecurity complex at play here) in that the Jews have a purpose in their own private lives and also for their community lives - on the other hand, most Chinese do not.

At the end of the day, the success of the Jews is not a fluke - their culture is structured in such a way that death of one member is nothing - even a massacre of millions to the Jews is nothing - as long as their culture gets to live on.

BBC has a very interesting program on the revival of Jewish culture in Krakow, Poland -
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programme... [bbc.co.uk]

What the Chinese have is number. What the Jews have is determination.

But other than that, in many other aspect in lives, what the Jews are can very much be found in the Chinese.

And I am not the only one who is saying this - read the following article (written by a Jew) to find out what he says ---

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/C... [atimes.com]

Re:It'll work if you want to suceed (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080169)

To make the long story short

Too late! Look at how long the rest of your post is.

tl;dr;dc

Re:It'll work if you want to suceed (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080205)

They are in so many ways so similar to the Chinese - and yet, they are far superior to the Chinese (yes, insecurity complex at play here) in that the Jews have a purpose in their own private lives and also for their community lives - on the other hand, most Chinese do not.

This comes from their survival instinct. No one fears the Chinese are going to be wiped off the map.

Re:It'll work if you want to suceed (2, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 6 months ago | (#46080349)

I seriously question the cultural superiority of the Jews or any other particular group. However, one thing I've always admired about the Jews is that as a people they are the ultimate survivors. They are, and always have been, a small group. They've endured the Egyptian exodus, the Babylonian conquest and diaspora, the Roman diaspora, numerous pogroms, attempts to destroy them and blaming them for everything including the Great Plague, their expulsion after the Reconquista, the Inquisitions (both Roman and Spanish) and of course most importantly, the Nazi Holocaust.They're still here. To anyone who wants to destroy the Jews, I say give up. You have better odds of creating a perpetual motion machine.

Re:It'll work if you want to suceed (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080289)

and America's most successful groups are all outsiders in one way or another

Okay but American blacks have NEVER felt like part of mainstream society and they are definitely the least prosperous group. That's a great big gaping hole in the theory that needs to be explained.

Having a culture that glorifies violence and street crime and actively persecutes those who want education really, really doesn't help. That's what gangsta culture does. No group could thrive with that. So the real question is why the nearly suicidal anti-achievement attitude? Where does it come from? Why can't people understand that embracing it means forever denying yourself your true protential? The successful black people who own businesses, enter the professions, and work in academia all have one thing in common: they rejected thug culture and growing up, they were often targeted and harasses and assaulted because of it. Not by whites, but by fellow American blacks.

Re:It'll work if you want to suceed (2, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 6 months ago | (#46080431)

American blacks have NEVER felt like part of mainstream society

When was the last time the Chinese were part of the "American mainstream society" ?

When was the last time the Jews feel like they are the "mainstream" anywhere but in Israel ?

Nope. None from the Chinese nor from the Jews.

However, both groups are thriving while the latino-americans and the african-americans are struggling, and you know why ?

The Jews never blame anybody else for their own failure, nor the Chinese.

When we (and I can speak only for the Chinese here) fail, we look into ourselves trying to find where we have failed - and in doing so, we mend up our weakness, and turn that failure into a lesson.

I can't speak for the Jews, but from what I observe (again, anecdotal) is that the Jews also dig deep within themselves whenever failure hits them.

Re:It'll work if you want to suceed (4, Insightful)

XcepticZP (1331217) | about 6 months ago | (#46080327)

How about you add a disclaimer to the top of your post? "Warning: Post contains my anecdotally-proven religious and racial stereotypes."

Jewish "superiority complex?" (1, Interesting)

barlevg (2111272) | about 6 months ago | (#46079897)

Re:Jewish "superiority complex?" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080107)

3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram[b]; your name will be Abraham,[c] for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

This type of superiority complex is what most of the "settlers" use to justify Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

Re:Jewish "superiority complex?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080229)

Jew are the original canaanites, right. I've read that essentially that because of slavery, they and a cultural revolution and changed their culture to know be known as Jewish.

Jim Goad... (-1, Flamebait)

Third Position (1725934) | about 6 months ago | (#46079905)

Re:Jim Goad... (2)

i kan reed (749298) | about 6 months ago | (#46080157)

Sadly, whatever it is is blocked where I am. The first guess I'd level out the gate is that it's an extension of "scientific racism" wherein "racial traits" are determined at a broad-based statistical level, and used for inferences about individuals in a way that only justifies biases and doesn't really inform.

Is that what it was?

Re:Jim Goad... (4, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 6 months ago | (#46080493)

Hard to say. In his first sentence, Jim Goad used a four-letter word for female genitalia to describe Amy Chu. That may be his opinion, but it's not important outside his head. Starting the article that way did not create the impression that an insightful and well-reasoned analysis will follow. I quit reading.

Simple enough... (4, Interesting)

TWX (665546) | about 6 months ago | (#46079919)

...in that some feeling of superiority or supremacy for either the group that one hails from, be it family, community, race, whatever, gives one the belief that one can achieve, or can achieve more than others.

Feeling of inadequacy guilts one into taking action, to actually attempt to strive to meet that perceived superiority.

Impulse control prevents one from going for instant short-term benefits when those benefits are small, when one can see longer-term benefits by being willing to settle for something lesser now.

I'm not going to get into the racism and other unfortunate points of the argument, but it's not that surprising to me that those that feel that they can achieve will achieve, while those that don't feel that they can achieve won't, by the averages.

Re:Simple enough... (4, Insightful)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | about 6 months ago | (#46079993)

The middle one is an easy trip to mental illness.

This all seems like a bunch pseudoscience BS, it's not worth any serious consideration.

Re:Simple enough... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080115)

It's not even pseudoscience, it's an op-ed from a couple law professors.

Re:Simple enough... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080245)

And the first one is an easy trip into total failure.

Of course, the first and the second one somehow contradict each other (if you are so great, then how can you feel inadequate? If you feel inadequate, how can you be great?). I guess it's more of beliving that you have a great potential which you haven't yet fully used.

Of course, the reason why you believe that may well be that it is actually true. Therefore it may well again be yet another case of correlation vs. causation. It's not the believe in superiority that makes you successful, but actual superiority which you recognize as such. And it is not the feeling of inadequacy, but the actual unused potential which you know about. If you know you've got potential which you've not yet used, and feel that it is wrong not to use it, you'll probably use it.

For example, I believe I'm quite good at mathematics. If I had trouble to understand even basic mathematics, I certainly would not think I were good at mathematics. Therefore there is certainly some correlation with my actual ability. Now it may be that I overestimate my mathematics skills. It also may be that I underestimate them. Of course I cannot tell (if I could, I'd estimate them differently, unless I already estimate them correctly, of course). However even if I overestimate them, I can only overestimate them because I have a certain skill level that may lead me to overestimation.

Re:Simple enough... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080159)

Despite being broken up into three terms, there really are just two (yes, one was split for marketing).

1) high personal standards
2) impulse control

Many posts seem to be outraged at #1, attacking it with their favorite bas-sounding psychological assessment terms, and a few are even offended at #2. I think it's easy to see who here is more motivated to defend their own low standards than to do anything useful.

Re:Simple enough... (1)

sycodon (149926) | about 6 months ago | (#46080189)

And how many times have you read that "being hungry", or that you have no other option than to succeed, being a driving factor in the success of a new business?

Such simple truths will be met with limitless rage.

Re:Simple enough... (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about 6 months ago | (#46080315)

I'm not going to get into the racism and other unfortunate points of the argument

Which "racism" would that be? The article explicitly and clearly points out that these traits are not caused by race.

Re:Simple enough... (2)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 6 months ago | (#46080377)

It's a common cause of confusion. Certain behaviours and tendencies can be attributed to specific cultures. I really wish people would realize that culture is learned, can be changed, and includes both good and bad aspects. The bad aspects of cultures should be changed, but it's touchy because it often gets ibnncorrectly equated to race.

Re:Simple enough... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080427)

People seem to conflate cultural criticism with racism.
Not all ways of living (cultures) are as well adapted to their surrounding reality. Equality of cultures is at best an aspiration, not reality.

WTF? (3, Interesting)

dywolf (2673597) | about 6 months ago | (#46079921)

This piece of "outrage journalism" was "news" two weeks ago.
Why is /. regurgitating it? And why after waiting two weeks?

Re:WTF? (4, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 6 months ago | (#46080085)

Because it was a slow news day, and the editors thought it was time for a good elitist/racist flame war?

Re:WTF? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080227)

If I had a nickle for every dip shit who asked " why is this /. news?", I'd be rich.

Re:WTF? (1, Funny)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 6 months ago | (#46080335)

Also, in over your head with dipshits.

American Parents (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46079933)

It must sux to be an American parent. Every time you open news you will learn another reason why you are bad parent. It does not even matter which news, even technical sites are now joining in fun.

Apparently American parents are too easy on kids while over scheduling and overworking them. They spend too little time with their kids while helicoptering over them. They do not care about school while bothering teachers with questions about little Johny every other day. They are not careful enough and tend to hurt their self esteem while making their kids to have too much self esteem. They helicopter and do not allow their toddlers to fall in play and thus do not allow them to naturally learn, But OMG, that toddler has bruise, no one caught his fall!!! Child neglect call CPS!!!

Re:American Parents (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080051)

That's the news helping American parents acquire the second trait, "The second [trait] appears to be the opposite — insecurity, a feeling that you or what you've done is not good enough."

Re:American Parents (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080433)

As an American parent with two kids...you have summed it up perfectly, sir :)

Re:American Parents (1)

mlts (1038732) | about 6 months ago | (#46080551)

Parenting in the US is like the parable of the miller, his son, and the donkey. Follow the doctors and teachers, the kid gets drugged up and possibly development is damaged due to unexpected side effects. Not using drugs, one might end up facing CPS.

Schooling is similar if one isn't wealthy enough to afford a private school. One can hope the public school system isn't going to churn out too broken an education, or one can try homeschooling, and that is another bag of worms [1].

[1]: So far, the closest thing I've seen to a one room schoolhouse is at renaissance faires where the cast and participants end up setting up de facto schools for all the worker's kids. So far, even though I'm just a volunteer (as it is a nice change from IT work), it is pretty interesting how wide the kids' knowledge is, and how well they read/write.

yep, always threaten my kids (3, Funny)

alen (225700) | about 6 months ago | (#46079939)

really the older one since he is the only one in school
tell him if he doesn't study and put an effort in that he is going to be kicked back to day care

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080057)

I just let mine watch Kill la Kill and tell them it really is an insightful cultural commentary about the current world.

When they read 1984 and Animal Farm later they'll get some of the references made in KLK.

One neat lesson is to walk into their room, ask them to point out the thing that is most valuable to them. Then explain how much it actually costs, and that the rest of the world thinks it's pretty damn worthless; But all that matters is that they value it. That's how the stock market works, based more on subjective valuation and short term rumors -- Otherwise the prices wouldn't fluctuate so wildly, eh? Then I ask them if high price tags mean high value? I'll pick up another toy that is more expensive that they don't care about or play with.

Later today I'll tell them about some BS I read on Slashdot about the subjective term "More Successful" and point out that Darwin would say otherwise.

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080163)

One neat lesson is to walk into their room, ask them to point out the thing that is most valuable to them.

Then I shriek with laughter and break it in front of their trusting little eyes!

Then I strip naked, cover myself in my own excrement and race out onto the front lawn. There I begin starting fires, whilst shouting "You are damned!!! HA HA HA!".

That's when the fun really begins!

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (1)

alen (225700) | about 6 months ago | (#46080183)

the oldest one doesn't like to clean up so one time i grabbed some of the toys he doesn't like that much and threw them in the trash right in front of him. he was cleaning his junk off the floor for the next hour

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (3, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 6 months ago | (#46080277)

I didn't even need to threaten my kids ... I helped them doing what they want, until they suffered so much they stopped.

One time I saw my underage son smoking. Instead of berating him how bad smoking is, I went out to buy some big cigars, came back, cut one cigar for him, shoved that thing into his mouth, light that cigar, and then, I told him in a very very soft voice ... "smoke it"

Yep. I sat there watching him cough, choke, cried, and threw up. By the time he finished that cigar (my wife was jumping mad at that time too, but I didn't barge even a micrometer), that son of mine looked at me, first time in his live, with a new revelation - his dad is a monster, a very very bad monster.

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (1)

xclr8r (658786) | about 6 months ago | (#46080207)

A smart child won't tell you what the most valued toy/item is in case it is used against them for punishment (taking away xbox etc). So the most expensive item may very will be the item they truly like and you're just a wind bag in their eyes. I am being a bit tongue in cheek here - I realize the lessons your trying to teach them - just poking fun.

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 6 months ago | (#46080347)

If you don't know what your child's most valued toy/item is, you're seriously out of touch with your kid.

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 6 months ago | (#46080467)

If you know what's the most valued item of your child/children --- either you spied on them too much, or your children are leaving fake leads.

Children are much much smarter than you could ever realize.

Re:yep, always threaten my kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080447)

A smart child won't tell you what the most valued toy/item is in case it is used against them for punishment (taking away xbox etc). So the most expensive item may very will be the item they truly like and you're just a wind bag in their eyes. I am being a bit tongue in cheek here - I realize the lessons your trying to teach them - just poking fun.

Except, I don't punish kids by taking things away from them since that breeds enmity. A smart kid would realize that I'd likely continue my pattern punishment via giving them a choice between several laborious chores to perform. They continued to dig holes in the backyard despite my insistence not to, so now they have to help build raised garden beds and cultivate plants -- They'll get to play with plenty of worms and mud.

They don't like cleaning their rooms, well, so long as it's clutter not filth then I don't care either. The price for keeping a dirty room is not getting to go play the day before visitors come over until they've cleaned their room and helped clean the rest of the house.

A smart parent doesn't have to ask what toy is most valued, and they don't have to threaten their kids to get them to behave. Despite what you may think, children are not terrorists. They are little people who want to be treated with respect, given some rights (like privacy and freedom), and are willing to negotiate with labor to achieve their goals.

I feel sorry for you. Your parents were tyrants. Now look at your government and see how foolish that is.

Crazy! (5, Funny)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about 6 months ago | (#46079941)

So you have to have an inferiority complex whilst believing yourself to be superior and be a control freak at the same time?

This explains why my manager is a psycho :D

Re:Crazy! (5, Interesting)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 6 months ago | (#46080109)

There's another force at work.

Native kids, born into the complacency that is life in a wealthy western nation, often lack the drive wielded by those not too far removed from the have-not lifestyle afforded by life with fewer resources.

First generation immigrants are generally more motivated and productive compared to those farmed locally.

Racist bullshit. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46079949)

This is basically racist bullshit packaged as folklorish anecdotal "science".

The USA was successful because we had a lot of natural resources to consume and a market to sell it to... that's it. China is "successful" only inasmuch as they have been able to profit off their workers lower standard of living selling goods to areas like the US with a higher standard of living. Once the standard of living for the middle class in wealthy nations has been lowered far enough to match that of the typical urban middle class Chinese worker, things are going to get ugly.

Re:Racist bullshit. (1)

gweihir (88907) | about 6 months ago | (#46080077)

Indeed. Superiority founded only on an irrational believe of being superior. In fact, these people are a problem.

Re:Racist bullshit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080313)

Well, it always depends on how you measure success ... who's more successful, the small guy who manages to get around with minimum wage jobs, or the top manager who tanks several companies but always leaves with the golden parachute?

Re:Racist bullshit. (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 6 months ago | (#46080471)

Well, it always depends on how you measure success ... who's more successful, the small guy who manages to get around with minimum wage jobs, or the top manager who tanks several companies but always leaves with the golden parachute?

So, you obviously measure success by how much earthly capital a person acquires throughout their lives.

I measure it by being able to do what I want and be happy, without having to be a selfish douche-bag.

In accordance with that metric, I know homeless people who are far more successful than any corporate executive.

Re:Racist bullshit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080135)

Northern Mexico has the same resources as the Southwest US/Texas.

Yawn..... (1)

Akratist (1080775) | about 6 months ago | (#46079953)

So, basically, success boils down to not making dumb decisions, feeling like to need to prove yourself, and knowing you can do better than where you are in life? Seems like a blinding flash of the obvious, in a lot of ways...and the Irish and Italians proved this a hundred or more years ago.

Re:Yawn..... (3, Informative)

sideslash (1865434) | about 6 months ago | (#46080033)

Seems like a blinding flash of the obvious, in a lot of ways

You haven't read their follow up paper, wherein we learn that spending all your time stoned on pot and alcohol correlates with low achievement in life.

Re:Yawn..... (1)

gweihir (88907) | about 6 months ago | (#46080073)

Actually also "knowing" that you can do better than all others (which is never true) and hence propelling you into positions you are unqualified for. The worth of these people for society is strongly negative. It explains why so many "managers" are so incredibly bad at their job though.

What about the 4th & 5th? (2)

Viol8 (599362) | about 6 months ago | (#46079955)

Talent and damn hard work.

Its all very well being some extrovert but insecure snake oil salesman , but if you really have nothing behind the shiny smile and/or you're lazy then the odds are you're not going to get very far.

On the other hand I'm come across plenty of shy retiring types who may not have all the smart ass patter and have no more insecurity than anyone else - but they have brains and they do well.

Re:What about the 4th & 5th? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46079991)

Points 1 and 2 give a lot of motivation, and hard work really isn't that difficult if you have the proper motivation.

Re:What about the 4th & 5th? (1, Informative)

gweihir (88907) | about 6 months ago | (#46080059)

Not required. Talent is a hindrance for success in the US. Obsessive-compulsion are a plus though. And "hard work"? You know that quantity cannot make up for quality, right? Well, as far as "success" goes, it does, but only on the surface.

and immigrants tend to buy property (1)

alen (225700) | about 6 months ago | (#46079965)

at least here in NYC i see lots of American young kids spending insane amounts of money in rent to live in the trendy and hip neighborhoods to spend even more money on overpriced alcohol at bars and whatever

the immigrants are the ones who own the million dollar homes in the best school zones here in places lots of new yorkers have never heard of

Re:and immigrants tend to buy property (2)

dcookie55 (3445391) | about 6 months ago | (#46080031)

Wouldn't that fall under the "impulse control" heading?

Re:and immigrants tend to buy property (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 6 months ago | (#46080511)

You think that will make up for not having both sides of your family being in the DAR boy you are dumb

sounds like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46079967)

a paranoid (insecure) psychopath (superiority) with a certain devious strain (impulse control) ,that causes him to wait, would be what they are talking about. I guess you can find that in any cultural group.

Correlation... (0)

jbmartin6 (1232050) | about 6 months ago | (#46079983)

Correlation doesn't prove causality. Perhaps they don't teach this principle in law school.

Re:Correlation... (1)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 6 months ago | (#46080127)

Nor does it disprove it.

In fact, it is most often the link followed in pursuit.

What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (5, Insightful)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 6 months ago | (#46080023)

It is sample bias, and that is all it is. People with education (and/or welath), a drive to better themselves, willing to chuck everything in one land to seek fortune halfway across the world. That is the sample you are looking at in America. Not a truly representative sample of India, or Nigeria or Chinese.

I am a very successful (by most metrics. education, job security, networth, income, family, status/respect among the peers) Indian American. Any statistics about Indian Americans suffers from terrible sample bias. Almost all the Indian immigrants to USA fall into exactly two categories. 1. Highly educated (post grad + in India from top Indian universities, IITs, IIMs, IISc, AIIMSs, NITs, RECs, etc). 2. Emigres from Gujrat business communities. Both groups would be very successful wherever they go, not because of any of this triple package.

The Gujarati business community is world wide and they thrive in every corner of the world. A huge percentage of grocery stores, motels, retail stores and pawn shops in Africa, Caribbean and Pacific islands are owned by them, and they are making big inroads into USA, UK, Canada, New Zeland, Australia etc as their immigration polices are getting relaxed .

The educated Indians were bottled up in India, when it was pursuing socialistic policies. A small trickle of engineers and doctors from India in 1960s became a veritable torrent during 1990s. Stated with F1 student visa, and then H1B work visas. They are all college educated.

The achievements of Indian children in academics in the USA is not very much out place compared to the Whites, Jews, the African Americans or Chinese, if you draw a sample with same level of education/wealth from these communities.

This triple package theory does not explain why, despite being endowed with the triple package in the dyed in wool pristine form, India and Nigeria are so corrupt and so mired in poverty.

Re:What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080139)

This triple package theory does not explain why, despite being endowed with the triple package in the dyed in wool pristine form, India and Nigeria are so corrupt and so mired in poverty.
--

The lasting damage of 19th/20th century colonialism would be my immediate assumption.

Re:What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (2)

jbmartin6 (1232050) | about 6 months ago | (#46080199)

I don't think this is correct. There is no bias in this case since the groups being examined are the groups of successful people in the US. What traits do those people share? It isn't examining Chinese or Indians in their original countries, it is examining emigrants in the US. In other words:

This triple package theory does not explain why, despite being endowed with the triple package in the dyed in wool pristine form, India and Nigeria are so corrupt and so mired in poverty.

could perhaps be answered by saying that the people who share the three traits all emigrate to the US and become successful.

Re:What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (1)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 6 months ago | (#46080271)

The author fails to explain the methodology by which she determined all these successful groups are so much like her. Given that she has a history of self-promotion, I suspect her technique was "narcissism, QED."

The actual, observable behavior of the successful groups is that they work hard, pursue self-improvement, and persevere. This is exactly what American mythology says is the formula for success, and what do you know, it worked for me, too! What motivates people to do that is largely irrelevant, and there may be more than one (or three) motivating factor or factors.

Re:What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about 6 months ago | (#46080361)

This triple package theory does not explain why, despite being endowed with the triple package in the dyed in wool pristine form, India and Nigeria are so corrupt and so mired in poverty.

I think it explains it quite well: the attitudes of the "triple package theory" are produced when a particular subgroup of people emigrates to the US. When they stay at home, they don't feel like they have to prove themselves. I think the article pretty much says as much. I don't see a contradiction.

Re:What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080395)

This does
http://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/

Corruption is a market distortion use by a select few to enrich themselves at the cost of others doing the same.
This is a good example of how to hold others back http://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/chap08p1.html thru the use of a union. Not that unions are bad but they can be corrupted easily for the 'good of the worker'.

Government is the key to pushing those policies. As you can use the force of the state to do so.

High taxes and state enforced monopolies create conditions where corruption could be rampant. As the market will try to find a way. Like you will not always get salmonella from eating raw chicken, but the odds are higher. For example here in the states the 'black market' is nearly non existent (except for illegal goods). The market will find a way. As people want to enrich themselves.

Any statistics about Indian Americans suffers from terrible sample bias.
I agree. You chose to come here. You wanted something different (you felt you could do better). It would be like comparing someone who decides to move to Europe for a job vs a suburbanite who has no desire to even see the next city over. The thinking is *very* different.

Re:What a bunch of baloney! Sample bias buddy. (1)

wytcld (179112) | about 6 months ago | (#46080469)

The Time op-ed mentions the children of Chinatown wait staff excelling in NYC highschools. Those aren't educated families

What's being described is an Adlerian superiority-inferiority complex. Get to know some who expresses strong feelings of either superiority or inferiority, and you'll most likely find they also have the other paired with it. It's a well-mapped variety of neurosis.

As for the emphasis on delayed gratification, the authors claim that this is incompatible with an emphasis on the now. But they have no data to prove that conscious focus on the longer term is incompatible with conscious focus on the present moment. Most of us have experienced how focus on the present moment can fold out into awareness of and resolutions regarding the longer term. The authors would have us embrace neurosis that ignores the present, as if we can't be richly in the present, and have rich futures, both. In this, they unwittingly illuminate how our ruling class is leading us to doom.

Does not sound desirable at all (5, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | about 6 months ago | (#46080035)

All these, except impulse control, are strong indicators of an imbalanced and immature personality. These people are a problem. Their "success" is essentially of negative worth to society, and, I suspect, to themselves.

Re:Does not sound desirable at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080261)

There success are due to affirmative actions. It is easy to prosper when you have so many racial privileges.

Re:Does not sound desirable at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080523)

Only if you phrase them in a way that makes them sound immature.

Think of someone successful and productive that you know. He* is probably confident in his own abilities: for example, when a problem arises, he believes he can solve it. He probably is also constantly aware that his abilities might not be enough for the task, that he might be overestimating his own abilities, and that things might go wrong either because of circumstances outside of his control or because of his own mistakes.

That hits superiority and insecurity right there. It doesn't sound so immature when you put it in the context of a mature individual.

* Pronoun chosen by coin flip

scientific study ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080063)

Is there some sort of scientific study backing this up. If not then wtf is it doing on slashdot

Re:scientific study ? (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 6 months ago | (#46080435)

Mod parent +5. I was going to ask the same thing. I don't have the stomach to read this book, so I ask anyone who has. Is there even a pretense of science, or is it just the author blowing smoke out of her ass?

Negative prejudice is looked down upon these days, but positive prejudice is accepted. Why? I remember a time when we were traveling through Nevada, and my brother commented that one thing you have to give the Mormons is that they take good care of their children. I'm sure that's true, but it raises an obvious question: which groups don't take good care of their children? Every positive prejudice is the flip side of a negative prejudice. I'm not saying that there are no cultural differences, or that they make no difference, but you have to be very careful when examining them. Blowing smoke out of you ass is obviously not a good approach, but even supposedly scientific approaches are fraught with problems. With the right study design, you can prove anything you want. It reminds me too much of the supposedly scientific racial theories of a hundred years ago.

a matter of coming home,, or homecomings (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080093)

having a home to come home to & feel safe in knowing we've done the right thing http://www.youtube.com/results... [youtube.com] even risking life & limb asking nothing in return... You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.....us imaginary semi-chosens never saw us coming? same banks, pr firms & WMD on credit cabals who supplied hitler are still in operation? here? egads, no wonder the don't ask don't tell symbull is so important? today we're going to interview (in absentia) the WMD cabalists & zion itself. try to ask questions that are on topic, as many as you like to hear lies about

Once (not at band camp) (2)

koan (80826) | about 6 months ago | (#46080095)

I was a young boy, it was 4th grade and I was living in Taiwan. (no I was not a military brat)
Our "American" school took us on a field trip to a Taiwanese school to see what it was like for local kids our age. At my school we did math problems such as 23 x 65 = ?, yes... that's all the more difficult it was.
At the Taiwanese school they did problems such as 34251 x 67453 = ?, but that wasn't all they did, a lot of what was on their board I didn't even understand.

It's been suggested that a lot of the kids at the "American" school were military, and that's why the bar was set low, the truth is I don't know why there were such low expectations.
What I do know is that expectations were much higher in Taiwan and else where for the same age group.

Re:Once (not at band camp) (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 6 months ago | (#46080341)

34251 x 67453 isn't really more difficult than 23 x 65, merely longer. You just repeat the exact same steps more times.

Re:Once (not at band camp) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080499)

but that wasn't all they did, a lot of what was on their board I didn't even understand.

Re:Once (not at band camp) (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 6 months ago | (#46080547)

yep it's about getting a "chitty" which is a passport to a job not understanding the actual mathematical principals

Obvious Racist speech that would not be tolerated (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080101)

this shit be racist "claim to have identified the three factors that account some group's..."

Re:Obvious Racist speech that would not be tolerat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080193)

Well, I guess we can tell which groups you're not in.

Re:Obvious Racist speech that would not be tolerat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080247)

Everybody should be given an equal opportunity, not everybody is equally capable of taking an advantage of such opportunity.

Actually, it all boils down to impulse control. (2)

Ihlosi (895663) | about 6 months ago | (#46080111)

Everything else is just a matter of time. Impulse control + desire to achieve -> success in the long run, unless you get beaten up by people without impulse control who find you annoying.

I'll keep ordering the Kung Pow Triple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080131)

Even after they've earned more than me. Kung Pow Triple is tasty.

Correct observation - wrong conclusion (1)

sinij (911942) | about 6 months ago | (#46080151)

It is all about specific types ofintelligence - logical-mathematical. In layman's terms - geeks do better in our techno-centric society. The ethnicity with most geeks ends up with an advantage, then the resulting socioeconomic factors cement the advantage..

Obersations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080171)

1. The three things pointed out by the authors do not have anything to do with race in my opinion. I think what the authors have stated is quiet obvious, for example in my home country (Morocco) the people with highest degree of motivation for upward mobility are from disadvantaged financial and social background. Their findings are correct but at a very high âoeGeneralizedâ almost sterotypical level. 2. The upward mobility the authors are referring is what I would classify as âoeMedium Incomeâ expansion. In United States, this is common occurrence because of waves of new immigrant every generation. Of course after time most immigrants move up even those who come from very disadvantaged backgrounds. Human nature be adaptive and learn to get what you want.

Success = happiness? (4, Interesting)

pr0nbot (313417) | about 6 months ago | (#46080177)

Would you rather be successful and miserable, or a happy failure?

I'm told that Hawaii, for example, has an odd vibe where a lot of people lead frugal lives with clapped out cars and McJobs, but they're there because it's a wonderful place to live. Do they deserve contempt for their lack of ambition? Praise for their ability to value the things that really matter? Respect despite having chosen a path we might not choose for ourselves?

Re:Success = happiness? (2)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 6 months ago | (#46080509)

Would you rather be successful and miserable, or a happy failure?

I'm told that Hawaii, for example, has an odd vibe where a lot of people lead frugal lives with clapped out cars and McJobs, but they're there because it's a wonderful place to live. Do they deserve contempt for their lack of ambition? Praise for their ability to value the things that really matter? Respect despite having chosen a path we might not choose for ourselves?

Considering that my dream life involves tropical air, building guitars all day (because I want to, not because I need income) while my wife shoots the curls, and killing a fair amount of what I eat... hell, I'll admit to being just a little green with envy.

fQuckmer (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080179)

approximately 90% sure that by the Over the same The BSD license, to foster a 6ay and Whether you a need to play the project Usenet is roughly

Maybe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080295)

I think i would add a 4th catagory...

The lack of crazy.

So many countries and cultures are bogged down in truely ANCIENT crazy beliefs and superstitions that they can't get shit done.

Something that america as a whole has rejected mostly. Even tho it's made up of people from every culture on the planet... For example the thing in japan with gift giving.. Yeah.. If you're from japan and come here... We'll pretty much reject that completely. We're not doing it.

Or the excessive politeness of some places like pakistan... Yeah no. We don't deal with that whole mess.

And most every other culture on the planet has these insane oudated quirks that really impedes progress daily. And here in the US. Nope. Fuck that. We got stuff to do.

Now if we could just get rid of religion we'd be making some real headway on getting shit done. But it's going to take a long time to wipe out that particular mental illness im afraid.

Re:Maybe... (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 6 months ago | (#46080543)

I think i would add a 4th catagory...

The lack of crazy.

Nope.

This world owes more to the crazed nuts than you give them credit for.

Take Ben Franklin - a grown man flying a fucking kite when the lightning were aplenty - if that's not a foolish/crazy act, what is it ?

And yet, without that crazy stunt, Mr. Franklin might not have gotten his proofs that electricity existed.

Best Comment Ever? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080303)

I know I can write the best comment here,
but I'm not sure if the one I'm writing now is all that good.
I guess I'll think about it a bit more before I post.

evil mad man was right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080331)

Mankind has grown great in eternal struggle, and only in eternal peace does it perish. -Adolf Hitler

Impulse control (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about 6 months ago | (#46080337)

I love that they made impulse control one of the three important characteristics. I think it's an important factor to be sure and one that really sets different people apart from each other.

Teenagers are famous for their lack of impulse control. Either it is my age showing or there really does seem to be an decrease of impulse control among American teens. It might be convenient to blame race for some of this... no, it really is easy when you look at the whole world instead of just what goes on in the U.S. But we're all human and we have a component of what we learn and are taught. Impulse control is 'behavior' and it comes largely from parenting.

The article highlights asian success who are also pretty famous for their parenting. Most people in the US find the style a bit restrictive to say the least and even distasteful. But the result speak for themselves do they not? And over the last few decades or more, there has been a constant stream of complaints by older people who keep talking about kids today and "family values" and parenting and all that. Mostly, this all falls on deaf ears of people who think they know better or that the old ways are no longer valid in "today's world."

And when you look at trending among different ethnicities in the US, where you see an increase in fatherless families or otherwise single parents you see more and more of these problems we call "impulse control" issues. (Back in the day, we said "criminal tendencies") But it's a bit sad and also gratifying that this story is not about what makes the white man in America successful. After all, the white man in America is the target of blame for other ethnicities' shortcomings. But I am glad this study points out that other non-white people can do better than white people and white people don't seem to be resentful or trying to take them down, let alone "keeping them down." (In fact, I would go so far as to say the white man is generally in awe of and are looking up to the successful asians.) So isn't it about time we stop listening to the complaints which even today continue to sound about the white man in America?

At he end of the day, each of us only have ourselves to blame for what we can and cannot do. (Within some reason of course.) But impulse control is huge. It's what affects the decisions and courses we take in life. I once or twice explained to my sons that life is a series of forks and paths. Some are mutually exclusive. When you make one choice, many other choices disappear. For example, getting a facial tattoo would close a LOT of doors in a person's future. (And those damned gauged earrings? Who, outside of a cannibalistic clan, would think that is acceptable in society?)

I have a sense of responsibility. I have this dark inner feeling that the things my family and especially my children do are a reflection on me. So I do what I can to ensure they reflect as well as possible. I hope my sons feel the same way as they go through life. It's a driving factor in family values. We need a lot more of this. No more single parents. No more running away from responsibility. Life isn't about whether or not you're happy any more. That's on you, but it's not on you to make another person's life worse because you're unhappy. That's a violation.

Coincidentally.... (2)

Rick in China (2934527) | about 6 months ago | (#46080351)

It's just a coincidence of course, but this insane couple happens to be Jewish and Chinese, two of the 'superior' minorities they mention. Wow, who'da thunk it. Ridiculous individuals.

Alternately.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080359)

You just need to be crazy and acting out your psycosis on the rest of society: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

One word, discipline (1)

stabiesoft (733417) | about 6 months ago | (#46080365)

Schools are failing because students don't listen or pay attention in class, and there is nothing the teacher can do. A friend of mine teaches. It sounds like a war zone where the students have all the weapons. And mommy and daddy never think it is their child's fault.

Triple Package = phone, DSL, Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080403)

More ridiculous marketing drivel from pop psychologists to get couch appearances on daytime TV (who need guests who are pushing their new book), etc

"Chosen People" doesn't mean what you think (2)

cowwoc2001 (976892) | about 6 months ago | (#46080459)

The "chosen people" are "chosen" in the sense they have extra requirements, not superiority. They are expected to lead by example, by adhering to 613 commandments while the rest of the world is only expected to adhere to 7 commandments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]

All this is to say, anyone who believes they are superior because they were born X or Y is missing the point. People of any ethnic or religious background can achieve the same "level" by helping to make the world a better place. You are judged by your deeds, not your words. That's all that matters.

what a load of bollocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080507)

I won't say what industry I work in, but it's common knowledge that certain group(s) are given raises and promotions solely because of their ethnic makeup.

"If you're a ____________ let me know, you're getting a raise."

Because some groups go to extreme lengths to help each other.

As they say it's not what you know, it's who you know.

Pefect description of a Sociopath (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080517)

'The first is a superiority complex — a deep-seated belief in their exceptionality. The second appears to be the opposite — insecurity, a feeling that you or what you've done is not good enough. The third is impulse control.'
This is an almost textbook description of a SOCIOPATH.
Our society is structured so sociopaths achieve great power and wealth and are celebrated in our entertainment (how many more movies can Leonardo DeCaprio make where he plays a "Wealthy douche-bag" and be celebrated and nominated for academy awards for them?)
Take a look at the search criteria for any Fortune 500 executive position and you will see a litany of SOCIOPATH behaviors as "requirements" for the job.
Take a look at those who survive the rise to national political office and you will see each and every one of them displays sociopath tendencies.
We all give lip-service to the platitudes of tolerance and meritocracy but then turn around and celebrate and congratulate the successes of the ruthless sociopaths among us (Amy Chua is a perfect example.)
"Tiger Moms" create "successful" sociopaths (you all know them, they are your "Managers and/or CEO/VP from Hell" you endlessly bitch about.)
Is that what we really want?

So good old-fashioned hard work & self-motivat (1)

PseudoCoder (1642383) | about 6 months ago | (#46080521)

That's the key to success? Sounds like conservative values to me. Especially when the author says "Ironically, each element of the Triple Package violates a core tenet of contemporary American thinking."

Among other detriments, contemporary American thinking assigns virtue to victimhood; a fallacy, for sure. It gives disadvantaged people a false moral high ground and one-sided sense of entitlement; an excuse factory. "Blame the system". Mean while the system has grown to be more of what it has been before, and people are still thriving and overcoming their hurdles.

Karl Marx is still dead wrong (see Communist Manifesto). Instead of going with it, he lamented progress as an enabler of the rich to get richer. For a guy who admired Darwin's work, his philosophy advocated protesting and complaining instead of adapting to survive and thrive, while he himself took advantage of the system. He had his sugar daddy Engels, and his wife's multiple inheritances to keep him going, while telling other people that the rich were screwing everyone.

The reason many immigrant groups thrive and surpass their previous is because they come here seeing not a system that is going to screw them, but a system they can take advantage of when they can, and a system they can go around when they can. Must be better than where they came from, otherwise they wouldn't see an incentive to being here.

You don't need the most expensive surfboard to ride the waves; to certain degrees of success and form you can even ride them with just a plank of wood. Anything is better than standing in the shore pouting while throwing stones at other surfers. Go out there and wipe out once or twice. I already wiped out once for a lack of Puritan impulse control, and I'm getting ready to go back out again and see what happens this time.

Hugh Pickens is the new Roland (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46080545)

I hope he dies like Roland did.

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