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Trans-Pacific Cable Plans Mired In US-China Geopolitical Rivalry

timothy posted about a year ago | from the because-huawei-doesn't-respect-privacy dept.

United States 162

An anonymous reader writes "Attempts to build a new telecommunications cable between the US, New Zealand and Australia have become a nexus for the growing rivalry between the U.S. and China in the Pacific. The U.S. is reportedly creating a technology ring fence to match its military one and contain China's ambitions in the Pacific. The U.S. military could even help pay for any planned new cable to link its bases in American Samoa with its expanding military presence in Australia's Northern Territory. It has been made 'very clear' U.S. authorities would not allow significant Chinese investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."

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Don't mess with America (4, Funny)

arcite (661011) | about a year ago | (#44911991)

Submersible hunter-killer drones lie in wait to defend America's freedom cable and orbital defense platforms defend the space above from communist tyranny. Long live freedom's reign.

Re:Don't mess with America (0, Troll)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#44912383)

Submersible hunter-killer drones lie in wait to defend America's freedom cable and orbital defense platforms defend the space above from communist tyranny. Long live freedom's reign.

Says the guy living in the country with the highest incarceration rate on Earth source [prisonstudies.org]

We're defending something, sure, but I don't think it's freedom.

Re:Don't mess with America (2)

SB9876 (723368) | about a year ago | (#44912503)

I'm pretty sure the parent was being sarcastic, man.

Re:Don't mess with America (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912529)

Yeah, well, we don't execute thousands of people every year like some other nations do.

Re:Don't mess with America (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912617)

Tell that to your farmaceutical/chemical enterprises

Re:Don't mess with America (2)

davester666 (731373) | about a year ago | (#44912839)

Only because we are having quite some difficultly acquiring the drugs necessary to execute people "humanely", otherwise we would be working on challenging China for executions/100,000...

IOW, we WANT to kill more people, we just have to find new ways to do it.

Re:Don't mess with America (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#44913329)

What do you call drone attacks then?

Re:Don't mess with America (2)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year ago | (#44912753)

We Americans are also #1 in sarcasm.

Re:Don't mess with America (1)

Gareth Iwan Fairclough (2831535) | about a year ago | (#44913093)

We Americans are also #1 in sarcasm.

Oh indeed, the United Kingdom does not exist. [/sarcasm]

Re:Don't mess with America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913413)

We Americans are also #1 in sarcasm.

Oh indeed, the United Kingdom does not exist. [/sarcasm]

point UK

Re:Don't mess with America (1, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year ago | (#44913953)

Oh indeed, the United Kingdom does not exist.

Not in any meaningful sense, anyway.

Re:Don't mess with America (3, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year ago | (#44914265)

America: Also #1 in forgetting other countries exist.

Re:Don't mess with America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44914039)

Due only to the number of failed attempts at irony

Re:Don't mess with America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913801)

You are just retarded and need to change your name to reflect that.

FP (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44911999)

Fuck off you chinkey bastard's!!!!

Re:FP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912065)

Of course you want them to keep the loans in place and continue lending right?
US national debut to Mainland China is around $1.277 Trillion.

Re:FP (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912273)

Which is a meaningless statement for many reason. It's not like China is our poor mother who lends us a few billion every time we get into trouble. "Debt" on a national scale doesn't work that way, and US debt levels are not out of the ordinary.

Nobody understands debt [nytimes.com] .

Re:FP (1)

Bartles (1198017) | about a year ago | (#44912563)

Nobody understands debt, including Paul Krugman.

Re:FP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913989)

Enlighten us, how does debt work? Does it have to be repaid? Will future generations be thankful the current generation had so much of it? Why did the US just have a "debt ceiling crisis" not long ago?

Re:FP (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about a year ago | (#44914703)

So other countries get soft loans and have to pay them back in real hard currency... via massive taxes or selling off national infrastructure.
"Debt" on a "US" national scale doesn't work that way? - as in never pay back "work that way" or some other trading/computer/war/political trick?

NSA (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912001)

Of course they need to lay NSA tapped cables.

Re:NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912039)

We all Love Big Brother . He is our savior . All Hail Big Brother .
Of course the americans want their cable put in .. they tap it and spy on everyone and all traffic with it .
Trust me the Americans are the enemy of the free world.
Keep spying Big Brother . We all despise you for what you became , but we can't say it .. if we do .. it will be internment camps and psycholigical rehabilitation to come to Love Big Brother .. im so sick of them and their lies i can't keep writing

Re:NSA (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913263)

> Trust me the Americans are the enemy of the free world.

And China isn't?

Re:NSA (3, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year ago | (#44913979)

I miss the Cold War, when there were competing systems instead of a race to the bottom.

Re:NSA (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912051)

Makes one wonder if China's backdoors might conflict with the NSA installed backdoors.

Re:NSA (1)

radiumsoup (741987) | about a year ago | (#44912069)

so far, this ^ is the only comment worth reading :)

Re:NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912475)

oh gosh, i sense a re-hash of the israeli submarine cable-cutters....
or was that the Indian-Ocean and the African-Oceans irrespectively....

Re:NSA (2)

icebike (68054) | about a year ago | (#44912553)

Cutters aren't the problem the US is worried about.
Taps are.

Re:NSA (1)

alexgieg (948359) | about a year ago | (#44913351)

oh gosh, i sense a re-hash of the israeli submarine cable-cutters....
or was that the Indian-Ocean and the African-Oceans irrespectively....

Remember, we've always been at war with Eastasia, not Eurasia. Or was it the other way around?

Re:NSA (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#44913873)

Nah, the Illuminati coordinates this sort off thing all the time.

Re:NSA (1)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#44912489)

Remember those cut cables in Suez canal? This was US military/NSA operation.

Re:NSA (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about a year ago | (#44912541)

Of course they need to lay NSA tapped cables.

Exactly.

This is nothing to do with politics, just practicality.
The NSA knows well just how much stuff can be gleaned from an under sea cable, so why would they want anyone else putting their equipment in place to tap into later? Too many taps spoils the surprise.

When the US worries about Chinese routers and switches it is most likely that someone in government already has "un-detectable" back doors into US made switches, routers and software. When they worry and bluster in congress about Chinese Cellular transmitter equipment it is likely because they already have all the other manufacturers compromised.

Re:NSA (1)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | about a year ago | (#44912609)

NSA tapped, but not Huawei tapped.

Re:NSA (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912763)

"NSA on Tap". There's a product line in there somewhere - tshirts, mugs, doormats, etc.

toleration violation (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912035)

would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction.

Given the USAs recent activities, maybe the use of USA companies and gear should also not be tolerated.

Re:toleration violation (4, Informative)

icebike (68054) | about a year ago | (#44913429)

That's already happening.

Brazil is pulling away from doing business with US tech firms.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-19/nsa-spying-gives-advantage-to-brazil-s-local-tech-firms.html [bloomberg.com]

Germany is pissed:
http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/08/14/german-backlash-to-nsa-spying-gets-stronger/ [wsj.com]

EU in general is looking elsewhere for technology:
http://gigaom.com/2013/06/07/nsa-spying-scandal-fallout-expect-big-impact-in-europe-and-elsewhere/ [gigaom.com]

Business world wide is starting to look elsewhere:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/09/10/how-the-nsa-revelations-are-hurting-businesses/ [forbes.com]

Cloud Computing was just sentenced to death by NSA
http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/04/spying-bad-for-business/ [techcrunch.com]

The NSA revelations will prove to be one of the biggest detriments to US computer technology business in decades.
 

Re:toleration violation (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year ago | (#44914015)

So with both Chinese and American gear unacceptable, where do you buy your networking equipment? Seriously.

Re:toleration violation (1)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year ago | (#44914277)

Some chances: Alcatel-Lucent [wikipedia.org] is still a French company.

Re:toleration violation (1)

Friend of Nature (1245372) | about a year ago | (#44914473)

Ericsson (and soon, Nokia).

Let me guess (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912041)

The US wants to be the only body involved who can spy on the traffic and perform man-in-the-middle attacks.

It's stopping terrorism.

Giving the example to the world (5, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#44912043)

Now if the rest of the world have a hint, they just need to use their own words

It has been made 'very clear' (some country) authorities would not allow significant U.S. investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of U.S. gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."

Brazil [slashdot.org] is already doing something of this, and more countries should follow.

Re:Giving the example to the world (1)

Dorianny (1847922) | about a year ago | (#44914303)

Now if the rest of the world have a hint, they just need to use their own words

It has been made 'very clear' (some country) authorities would not allow significant U.S. investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of U.S. gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."

Brazil [slashdot.org] is already doing something of this, and more countries should follow.

Many Brazilians seem to think that the U.S spying is just an excuse to get social media sites to open offices and place their servers in Brazil where they could be pressured or even censored by the government.

Of course! (3, Interesting)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about a year ago | (#44912047)

The USA wants only their taps and backdoors working on those cables!

Re:Of course! (2)

auric_dude (610172) | about a year ago | (#44912327)

Don't worry, USS JImmy Carter is on the job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter_(SSN-23) [wikipedia.org] , http://defensetech.org/2005/02/21/jimmy-carter-super-spy/ [defensetech.org] & http://cryptome.org/eyeball/mmp/jimmy-carter.htm [cryptome.org] but things may well have moved on a fair bit since then.

Isn't this.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912055)

Pot calling the kettle black one stamped Made in the USA the other Made in China.

Re:Isn't this.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912135)

Does the US still make pots and kettle's, or has that entire industry been moved o China with the rest?

Hah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912081)

It has been made 'very clear' U.S. authorities would not allow significant Chinese investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction.

Maybe they shouldn't have sat by and watched all US manufacturing migrate overseas then.

Easy answer... (-1, Flamebait)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#44912095)

The only country that has thus far been able to check the United States' unmitigated love of bombing people has been Russia. 'Murica wanted to bomb Syria. Russia came in and said "We'll take those chemical weapons off your hands, then 'Murica has no reason to bomb you." ... Suddenly, Syria looks rational, Russia looks peaceful, and America looks like the playground bully kicking sand in everyone's faces. Naturally, this didn't go over very well with the war hawks in Congress... but to date, no bombs have dropped.

China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons. Either that, or develop their own. America does not play well with others; They only back down and act reasonable when there's a risk of total and immediate thermonuclear destruction of the planet... anything conventional and it's bombs-away! I only wish I were joking. China has already taken the first steps -- realizing that America can't be handled conventionally. They've started developing their economy and cyberwarfare resources at a pace that exceeds America's, and the disparity is growing measurably every few months. It will only be a decade at most before they're left eating the dust of China as it rises to become a global economic superpower.

America is looking at undersea cables and going; If we can delay this a bit somehow... it'll slow 'em down. Their policies towards china have become very much about delaying and frustrating them, because stopping them isn't an option anymore. There's billions of chinese, and only millions of Americans. But stubborn nationalistic pride is keeping both sides from finding a mutually-acceptable middle ground. Unfortunately for America... they're rapidly losing their position at the bargaining table. They may not have a chair in a few more years at the rate China is developing.

And I think that, more than anything, is what is driving behavior like this. Worrying about the Chinese spying on everyone and putting backdoors in telecom equipment is a pretty pitiful excuse when America has been pants'd internationally over the exact same thing recently, and new examples are being made public weekly. And China isn't running around hunting down its ex-pats in Russian airports when its citizens come forward and say what its government is up to. They just stare blankly into the camera and then say "We make you iphone! iPhone good! You want more iphones? Shut up." ... and that's the end of it. -_-

Re:Easy answer... (4, Informative)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#44912125)

China had, at last count, almost two thousand nuclear weapons [wikipedia.org] and climbing.

Re:Easy answer... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912209)

If they actually hold true to their word is open for debate, but China also tried to push for a "no first strike" agreement but no one would sign on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use [wikipedia.org]
"China undertakes not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon States or nuclear-weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances."

I like the nato reponse :"preemptive nuclear strike is a key option"
So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options" such as enless threats of using them?

Re:Easy answer... (2, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#44912561)

Until somebody develops the ability to nuke all it's enemies globally instantly, and synchronized down to the second globally, there's no point in signing such an agreement as MAD pretty much ensures that nobody is going to be using nuclear weapons.

Consequently, that treaty was just an effort to bolster China's image on the world stage. If there were really any purpose to such a treaty, it would have been signed a long time ago.

Re:Easy answer... (1, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | about a year ago | (#44912639)

So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options"

What's so hard to understand about that? NATO will only use nukes in defense. That includes defending against chemical or biological attacks, for example. Signing on to a NFU treaty would take away that option.

Re:Easy answer... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913243)

That's why Bush was trying to get the U.S. to develop nuclear bunker busters?

Re:Easy answer... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44914889)

So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options"

What's so hard to understand about that? NATO will only use nukes in defense. That includes defending against chemical or biological attacks, for example. Signing on to a NFU treaty would take away that option.

Everybody understood just fine. Everybody also knew full well that "defense against chemical or biological" attacks also include potential ones, i.e. pre-emptive strike. And of course, whenever convenient, cyberattacks or humanitarian disaster would be included in the list of potential "attacks" to be defended against, which basically opens the door to strike anyone anytime.

A kind of "defense" which, for most of the world, just means "offense".

Take a clue, nobody buy these word games anymore.

Re:Easy answer... (0)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#44912369)

China had, at last count, almost two thousand nuclear weapons and climbing.

Uhh, try 200-300 [nti.org] . And they presently lack an effective delivery mechanism. They're testing [freebeacon.com] one now. They are not a significant threat to the United States at this time. Russia is.

Re:Easy answer... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912401)

hey dumbass ... every space faring nation (china is one) has a delivery mechanism.

Re:Easy answer... (1)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#44912565)

You seriously think they'd be able to get a nuke onto a ship without being noticed? If it were truly that easy, we wouldn't be bothering with missiles at all.

Re:Easy answer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912977)

His point was that if you have space capability, you have the ability to launch a nuke *without ships* - any orbital lift capability can double as an ICBM with relatively minor modifications, and can theoretically hit any point on the planets surface.

Re:Easy answer... (3, Informative)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#44912625)

And they presently lack an effective delivery mechanism.

Except for the 65 odd ICBMs [defense.gov] .

Re:Easy answer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913503)

When you make a post stating China is not a nuclear power, you lose all right to arrogantly correct someone later about specific numbers of warheads. Also, you're still a moron. China is a space faring nation. Any nation that can send up space launches can deliver warheads anywhere in the world.

Stop posting. Really. Stop. Every post you make embarrasses you further.

Re:Easy answer... (1)

auric_dude (610172) | about a year ago | (#44913013)

Would the United States ever actually use nuclear weapons? http://thebulletin.org/would-united-states-ever-actually-use-nuclear-weapons# [thebulletin.org] would suggest that targets and reasons for the use of the US nuclear weapons are rather limited and the perhaps the US has an over abundance of kit in the post Cold War era.

Re:Easy answer... (1)

alexgieg (948359) | about a year ago | (#44913379)

Would the United States ever actually use nuclear weapons?

Er... the United States is the (singular) country to ever have used nuclear weapons (plural). Granted, it probably won't use them (again). But as far as statistics go, so far it's still USA 2 x 0 Everyone-Else-Summed.

Re:Easy answer... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912189)

Suddenly, Syria looks rational, Russia looks peaceful, and America looks like the playground bully kicking sand in everyone's faces.

Considering that the EU and UN were wringing their hands and ineffective, the folks I've spoken to on that continent seem to think it turned out quite reasonably for all.

Naturally, this didn't go over very well with the war hawks in Congress... but to date, no bombs have dropped.

Hmm.. are you talking about a very few congresscritters or a large group? Once again you're clueless.

China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons. Either that, or develop their own.

Wow, we'd better be careful or China might develop their own weapons [wikipedia.org] ! You're so fucking stupid it's unbelievable. Hell, they got their best tricks from stealing data our warheads [independent.co.uk] .

They've started developing their economy and cyberwarfare resources at a pace that exceeds America's, and the disparity is growing measurably every few months. It will only be a decade at most before they're left eating the dust of China as it rises to become a global economic superpower.

The NSA owns China like a two dollar Asian hooker. Don't believe your own animus; it's the truth.

As far as your economic arguments go, they're laughable. Talk to me when the Chinese let their currency float. Talk to me when they have solid fresh water supplies that aren't polluted beyond repair. Talk to me when they can feed themselves for the next fifty years. Talk to me when they can put down the political dissent of their aspiring middle class forever.

Psst.. they're just as fucked as the US... actually more so. Fortunately neither of us are as fucked as the EU. The future of the first world lies in South America.

Re:Easy answer... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912283)

Because the US/EU had such a good environmental record during their industrial revolution?
No lakes/rivers have ever actually caught fire because they were so polluted?
No one in EU/US has ever been arrested for political reasons? Say during the "mccarthyism" period?
No one has ever undergone QE(x) or other currency manipulation programs other then China?

Re:Easy answer... (0)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#44912591)

I love how the anti-American bigots trot this sort of bullshit out, without context.

The US had a sterling record compared with any other nation that's gone through an industrial revolution. What's more, the industrial revolution happened well before we had any concept of the long term consequences to the destruction. The Chinese are well aware of global warming and the rest, they've chosen to engage in dangerous policies because they view it to be better than enforcing their own regulations.

As far as the lakes and rivers go, again, nobody realized the consequences when things were being built. But, now that we do know better, the water is being cleaned and for the most part is clean.

As for the currency manipulation, you wouldn't be saying that if you knew what was going on. The Chinese government still owns most of the enterprises in China. They withhold pay that should be going to the workers in order to lend money to American businesses and the government. The net effect of that is that you've got a lot of people working for very little and the normal adjustment to the currency value doesn't happen because they're sending cash back to counter act that.

In the long term that's extremely dangerous as at some point they won't be able to afford to keep lending money, at which point the wages will need to rise and when that happens they won't be able to export as many goods. It's going to get extremely nasty if they don't manage it right. Or they'll wind up with prolonged stagnation as things catch up.

Re:Easy answer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912951)

"without context", nice, please share some "context" when it would be OK to polite a river until it catches fire, or bury nuclear waste in cardboard boxes. Also reconcile this with why third world nations are not allowed to consume energy and evolve.

Oh, Yes, we learned... September 19, 2013 at 6:20pm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-13500-gallons-of-oil-spill-i [buzzfeed.com]

So where is the context for China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912969)

"I love how the anti-American bigots trot this sort of bullshit out, without context."

So where is the contect of all the "bad things" that the pro-Merkin shitheads bang out all the time?

Or is the context "I'm a Merkin, therefore I cannot be a bad guy"?

Re:Easy answer... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912269)

There's billions of chinese, and only millions of Americans.

There is only one order of magnitude difference between the populations of USA and PRC, not three as your post implies.

Re:Easy answer... (1)

peragrin (659227) | about a year ago | (#44913417)

um 1.3 billion verses .3 billion

where is that order of magnitude again?

Re:Easy answer... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912331)

China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons. Either that, or develop their own.

There are only 8 states known to have nuclear weapons (nine if you count Israel). If you are too fucking ignorant to know that China is one of them, which undermines most of your supposed argument, then you have no business discussing foreign policy.

And China isn't running around hunting down its ex-pats in Russian airports when its citizens come forward and say what its government is up to. They just stare blankly into the camera and then say "We make you iphone! iPhone good! You want more iphones? Shut up." ... and that's the end of it. -_-

This manages to be both idiotic, ignorant and racist all in one, so that's awesome.

Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.

Re:Easy answer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912709)

and why the fuck would you not consider israel? you know damn well they have nukes.. they just don't advertise it, as an official and verified declaration of their capability would make iran go crazy nutzo.

Re: Easy answer... (-1, Flamebait)

DigiShaman (671371) | about a year ago | (#44913227)

Because Israel is surrounded by Islamic barbarians that would like nothing more than to see Jewish babies burn in fire. No, really!!! Islam is pure evil in that they stone people to death, rape women, beat their wives into submission, and honor-kill their daughters. If Israel were to use a nuke, it would be a last man standing scenario. They don't have enough people to win an Islamic war via zerg rush even if they wanted too. Effectively, an Israeli nuke (or the thought of one perceived or otherwise) is the ace in hand. And it would be ill advised for them to tip their hand now.

Re:Easy answer... (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#44913921)

China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons

Are you forgetting Dennis Rodman's batshit insane friend? North Korea's existence depends entirely on being China's delightfully-insane-but-moderately-dangerous second cousin who is locked in the basement and only let out to amuse the neighborhood kids.

Flip it (3, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about a year ago | (#44912115)

China is building a cable across the Pacific, and American firms want to invest and use their equipment. Suddenly it sounds rational to disallow foreigners. How's that work?

I get the idea that Americans just aren't allowed to do anything that's in their national interest. If the Chinese government (and that's what state-owned enterprises means) wants to invest and install their own equipment, then the Americans must allow them! The Chinese will install spyware on the cable? Oh, boo hoo you Americans will just have to take it because you're bad people and hurt puppies!

Re:Flip it back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912199)

Why should we take it in the ass from NSA / America and not China?
Which country is heading to the future, and which is stagnating (at best).

When Americans learn to play nice in the world they can come back and have a seat at the grown up table.
Until then why not use cheaper Chinese cables and equiptment.

Re:Flip it back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912315)

I'd rather take it in the ass from China than the NSA, 'cause the Chinese won't come down on me if I critisize my own country (the USA). The NSA would put me on a list of suspectable terrorists. I'd definitely pick Chinese interference over NSA.

Re:Flip it back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912347)

If this were translated, millions of Chinese would laugh.

Re:Flip it back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912377)

I don't think you understood what I just said.

Re:Flip it back (1)

artor3 (1344997) | about a year ago | (#44912653)

So you want the objectively more oppressive country on top, to the detriment of billions, because it won't personally affect you. What a great guy you are.

Re:Flip it back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912921)

Ya know, using a strawman & following it up with an ad hominem, really changed my mind in this case. I was totally wrong that I, as a U.S. citizen, have more to fear from the NSA than from China. I'm really glad you opened my eyes to the fact I was wrong, by pointing out how selfish I was being to not think about how 1 billion Chinese would be no better or worse off than they already are. Which, wasn't really the point I was making, but hey, you sure did tear down that point. Thanks! :-)

PS. Recommend you learn more about Chinese oppression from some sources that aren't so biased against China, and learn more about U.S. oppression, then compare the two, before you make blanket statements about who's more "objectively more oppressive", to support your world view.

Re:Flip it back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44913035)

When Americans learn to play nice in the world they can come back and have a seat at the grown up table.

Please do not confuse Americans with their government. Quite a few of us strongly disapprove of what the NSA has done and have been noisy about it.

Re:Flip it (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912681)

Everybody will just have to build their own transoceanic cables, with only their own equipment. The Chinese will send data down the Chinese cable and the Americans will send data down the American cable, but since neither wants to cooperate, the other end of the cable is not connected to anything, so the whole thing is an exercise in futility.

The point of these cables is that there are several parties to the project who are going to use them. It is thus entirely unreasonable to insist on excluding one party from the build. Yes, the US may fear that the Chinese will bug the cable, but this is a case of "it takes one to know one". There is no doubt that the Americans will bug the cable, so if the US wants to exclude China, then China would be perfectly justified to demand exclusion of US technology. And then you get the situation with two useless cables. If you don't want to talk to each other because the other might be listening, then don't build a cable.

Re:Flip it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912875)

How about a nice game of chess?

War is coming (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912261)

What the US military will absolutely prevent is another Pearl Harbor attack.

Re:War is coming (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912337)

Anyone who thinks Pearl Harbour was a "surprise" is retarded.

They just wanted an excuse to officially join the war for the folks at home. Everyone knows USA were actively helping the allies, and actively working against Japan.
Not expecting Japan to retaliate in such a situation is just foolish nonsense.

Re:War is coming (1)

Zamphatta (1760346) | about a year ago | (#44912351)

Doubt they could prevent it, but I'm sure they would respond very heavy iron fist.

Competitive Balance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912291)

Huh? Is the NSA afraid they'll have competition in the "listening in to the whole world" business if they allow China to install a cable that could contain Chinese backdoors and no USA backdoor? Sucks to be them.

Limk to Asia not America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912313)

Australia and NZ need more links to Asia than USA.
With all the NSA shenanigans, Im sure most people would prefer their data didnt go to the US anyway.
Asia is growing and US is stagnating, plan for the future.

Step up the game (1)

Reliable Windmill (2932227) | about a year ago | (#44912317)

China and Russia must step up the game. I don't trust U.S gov in their ambitions to rule the world. They care less for the good of everyone, and more for securing their own place at the top.

Re:Step up the game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912623)

no-one trust american ambitions. its an "understatement".

americans dont trust huawei parts, but that, too, is an "understatement"

subversely, israeli company get contract for wifi and cellphone mast of Capitol Building;

same time as wifi/cell service tender, them israeleese point finger at huawei!!!

then, African communications cables are severed by (anchors?) +++read subscript+++ ISRAELI NUCLEAR ATTACK SUBMARINES!!!! active in Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, and Arctic Seas!?!

busy bombarding the terrorist dolphins and whale-pods with radio-waves! if they allow the terrorist whales to form pods, maybe they will try to develop legs to terrorize the martians with next step up!!!

uhhh, wasn`t this about the data-security of the undersea cables in the Pacific-Rim, not unlike those of the Horn of Africa and the Indian Ocean (cut by israeli submarines)? If israeli bastards cut Chinese cable, they would just blame the Japanese, like when the israeli submarine sunk the S.Korean ship, they blame N.Korea.

This Doesn't Help the People (2)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about a year ago | (#44912517)

the growing rivalry between the U.S. and China

If anything the US and Chinese people have grown closer over the past decades; scratch that - for certain the US and Chinese people have grown closer over the past decades.

Only a bunch of crazy old men claiming to represent the people could continually fuck this up. To them I say: "get out of the way."

Re:This Doesn't Help the People (3, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#44914075)

Are you referring to the US Congress or the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

what's the difference? (1)

slick7 (1703596) | about a year ago | (#44912585)

American cable = NSA, CIA, FBI, DHS, ICE spying
China cable = PLA, Korea spying

Because we can trust American hardware (1)

msobkow (48369) | about a year ago | (#44912903)

<SARCASM>Because we can trust American hardware not to have NSA back doors, right?</SARCASM>

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44912925)

The Chinese should just build a cable anyway and run it for cheaper than everybody else. I know where the traffic will go.

What a laugh (1)

asamad (658115) | about a year ago | (#44912967)

What they are worried somebody else it going to be listening in on every conversation apart from them !

Then let the countries decide (3, Interesting)

argStyopa (232550) | about a year ago | (#44913897)

Who do you prefer listening into your communications? The US or China?

Given the inherent malignity of state entities, which is the least-worst?

Re:Then let the countries decide (3, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about a year ago | (#44914643)

The US, certainly. In China, Snowden would have been hunted down by internal security, given a quiet trial, and executed shortly thereafter and his organs harvested. In America not only was Snowden able to escape due to not having to go to a government office and get an exit visa for his passport (documenting where you're going, when, for how long, and showing airline tickets and hotel reservations, then the government will allow you to leave) but he was soundly cheered by many Americans.

As a Westerner who has been in China for years now and speaks Mandarin, people only like China because they reflexively hate America and either don't know anything about China or project their wants and desires on China. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know."

You can shame America into doing things...what just happened in Syria? China just doesn't care unless you're Chinese. And even then, it's a stretch.

Sovereign nations? (2)

manu0601 (2221348) | about a year ago | (#44914837)

I am not sure I understand this story: why US has its word to say about who is connecting Australia and New Zaeland? Aren't theses territories sovereign nations?
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