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Missouri Legislation Redefines Science, Pushes Intelligent Design

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the pi-is-exactly-3 dept.

Education 813

An anonymous reader writes "Ars reports on new legislation in the Missouri House of Representatives which is seeking equal time in the classroom for Intelligent Design, and to redefine science itself. You can read the text of the bill online. It uses over 600 words to describe Intelligent Design. Scientific theory, the bill says, is 'an inferred explanation of incompletely understood phenomena about the physical universe based on limited knowledge, whose components are data, logic, and faith-based philosophy.' It would require that 'If scientific theory concerning biological origin is taught in a course of study, biological evolution and biological intelligent design shall be taught.' The legislation's references to 'scientific theory' and 'scientific law' make it clear the writers don't have the slightest idea how science actually works. It also has this odd line near the end: 'If biological intelligent design is taught, any proposed identity of the intelligence responsible for earth's biology shall be verifiable by present-day observation or experimentation and teachers shall not question, survey, or otherwise influence student belief in a nonverifiable identity within a science course.'"

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It's a race... (5, Insightful)

nickserv (1974794) | about 2 years ago | (#42877525)

...to the bottom.

Re:It's a race... (5, Insightful)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 2 years ago | (#42877541)

Teach Darwin,

Teach Spinoza and Godel.

No problem.

Re:It's a race... (3, Insightful)

WaywardGeek (1480513) | about 2 years ago | (#42877905)

I prefer the Halting Problem to Godel, but that's another issue... This is just another brain-dead bill by the god-tard legion.

Christians, physicians and hospitals (5, Insightful)

emil (695) | about 2 years ago | (#42877915)

I have a much better idea. A fundamentalist Christian has no business seeing a physician or being in a hospital ever.

Corinthians 2:12:5: ...but for myself I will glory nothing but in my infirmities. For though I should have a mind to glory, I shall not be foolish: for I will say the truth. But I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth in me, or any thing he heareth from me. And lest the greatness of the revelations should exalt me, there was given me a sting of my flesh, an angel of Satan, to buffet me. For which thing, thrice I besought the Lord that it might depart from me. And he said to me: My grace is sufficient for thee: for power is made perfect in infirmity. Gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Power is made perfect. . .The strength and power of God more perfectly shines forth in our weakness and infirmity; as the more weak we are of ourselves, the more illustrious is his grace in supporting us, and giving us the victory under all trials and conflicts. For which cause I please myself in my infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ. For when I am weak, then am I powerful.

Any Christian that pushes intelligent design over evolution should have the courage of their convictions and forsake modern medicine. Glory in your disease, for it is a gift from God.

Re:Christians, physicians and hospitals (5, Informative)

VAElynx (2001046) | about 2 years ago | (#42877923)

Sadly, there are nutcases like that. Called "Christian Scientists"

Re:It's a race... (4, Insightful)

Ironhandx (1762146) | about 2 years ago | (#42877881)

It really fucking is. The reason for NOT teaching intelligent design is written right into the fucking text of the law.

"(2) "Biological evolution", a theory of"

"(3) "Biological intelligent design", a hypothesis"

Amazing how they got that right then got the entire text of the law wrong.

I also like how they added "biological" to the front of intelligent design. It both makes it oh so obviously more legitimate and less pseudo science and also suggests we were created by aliens instead of god/gods/pigdemons/whateverotherrandombullshitpeoplearegullibleenoughtoswallow at the same time.

Treason (5, Insightful)

ZorinLynx (31751) | about 2 years ago | (#42877531)

This sort of behavior from elected officials should be considered treason.

It is severely hurting the future of our country and making the next generation more ignorant.

They should be removed from office and any position of power of influence over others.

Re:Treason (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42877645)

It is severely hurting the future of our country and making the next generation more ignorant.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

HTH. HAND.

Re:Treason (4, Interesting)

SwampChicken (1383905) | about 2 years ago | (#42877743)

Removing them will do little. It's the lobbyists who are pushing Intelligent Design that need to be weeded out.

Re:Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877775)

Treason has a legal definition and this isn't it. If you're going to bitch about them trying to redefine science the least you can do is not make up some bullshit about treason.

Re:Treason (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877919)

"This sort of behavior from elected officials should be considered treason."

He said that it should be. Treason has other meanings besides the legal one, you know.

It is their job. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877947)

The elected officials who drafted this legislation are probably doing exactly what their voters want them to do.

I would imagine that they are accurately representing the will of the people, in this case. Their actions are offensive to quite a few people who are outside their constituency, like you and me, but since we are the outsiders our opinions don't count for much.

Also, being right doesn't count for much either, since both sides think they are right.

Isn't that how a democracy is supposed to work? Aren't the states supposed to have some autonomy over issues such as education?

Do you have any other justification than "we are right" to explain why a state's citizens should decide what the schools that they pay for teach their children?

Re:Treason (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877809)

And that attitude is a witch hunt. Maybe you should not have influence over others just because you disagree with some scientific ideas. how is disagreement with scientific ideas treason?

I am guessing, though, government leaders who actually stomp on religious and personal freedoms should not be tried for actual treason for going against the terms of their office? When they vow to protect, say, gun ownership, then do things to make it more difficult, then that is true treason. Or when a law is passed that stomps over an organization's religious rights, when there should be a separation there, that isn't treason?

Re:Treason (2)

gmuslera (3436) | about 2 years ago | (#42877849)

Treason to who? American citizens or the ones that manage the government? Usually treason means going against the ones in power. Dumb voters are voters after all, they do what they are told to do, they are trained to just believe, not think. Intelligent or critical thinking ones, in the other hand, could vote against them, rebel, move away or do enough noise. Better that not be a lot of them.

Anyway, unless the elected officials responsible for this are lawyers, I should not attribute this to malice if can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re:Treason (1)

Gamer_2k4 (1030634) | about 2 years ago | (#42877937)

This sort of behavior from elected officials should be considered treason.

It is severely hurting the future of our country and making the next generation more ignorant.

They should be removed from office and any position of power of influence over others.

They speak for the people they represent; that is, they're doing EXACTLY THEIR JOBS.

If you have an issue with the legislation itself, that's one thing, but remember that elected officials are supposed to be the voice of their constituents. Don't call it treasonous when the elected actually do their job.

Re:Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877963)

If you don't like it, stop voting them in there.

Fucking furry piece of shit.

Re:Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877975)

This sort of behavior from elected officials should be considered treason.

Hah! Not to go offtopic a bit, but we have a president who decided that he is permitted to unilateraly and openly execute people (Americans or not). No one in Congress is trying to stop him

By now, I feel that I am geting used to treason from our elected officials

what annoys me the most (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877537)

is that someone is being paid to write this shit.

Well, it was a nice run (4, Insightful)

morcego (260031) | about 2 years ago | (#42877551)

Rest in peace, oh great America. You had a nice run leading the world in science and technology.

Pretty soon now you will be just another religious state, just like the ones you are fighting right now, but with a different religion.

Re:Well, it was a nice run (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877661)

This shit never stands in the State courts, your an idiot.

Re:Well, it was a nice run (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877739)

you're too

Re:Well, it was a nice run (1)

cpghost (719344) | about 2 years ago | (#42877723)

Pretty soon now you will be just another religious state, just like the ones you are fighting right now, but with a different religion.

Not only that: looking at Syria, America is currently pushing with all its might for yet another religious state, and in Egypt is also best friends with the forces of darkness (i.e. Mursi and his Brotherhood). This crazy foreign policy becomes much more comprehensible if we consider how America is already morphing into a religious state itself. It's so sad for a country that once was a beacon of hope and modernism for the rest of the world.

Sir Isaac Newton Was a True Blue Christian (1)

qbitslayer (2567421) | about 2 years ago | (#42877735)

He even calculated that the end of the world would come in 2030. He did by interpreting Biblical metaphors! And yet, with all that creationist (although Newton did not believe that the world was only a few thousand years old) religious baggage, he managed to be the father of modern physics. What have you done for yourself lately?

Re:Sir Isaac Newton Was a True Blue Christian (5, Insightful)

Kenja (541830) | about 2 years ago | (#42877867)

And yet, he was able to realize that observable evidence was more important then simply chanting "God did it" over and over again.

Re:Sir Isaac Newton Was a True Blue Christian (1)

znanue (2782675) | about 2 years ago | (#42877883)

The parent to your post was talking about religious states, IE, politics. I think you made a false assumption that being pro religion means pro religious state. Do you have quotes from Newton expressing his views on the religious state?

Even if you did, the idea that Newton is the master of all metaphysics because he was quite good at math and physics is hardly a logical inference.

Finally, ending with an ad hominem in order to debase the other poster is quite lame.

Z

Re:Sir Isaac Newton Was a True Blue Christian (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877983)

And yet, with all that creationist...

And there are lots of religious people that have no problems with Darwin's Theory of Evolution, or with evolution as it has evolved to be today. You know, actually used by scientists to make drugs and evolve lifeforms that have not existed before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_John_Paul_II [wikipedia.org]

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.... Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studiesâ"which was neither planned nor soughtâ"constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."[33]

So what is wrong with these nut jobs in Missouri? Roman Catholic church learns from the past. They have learned from Galileo and Copernicus that it is stupid to oppose reality because you can't adapt your dogma.

What have the anti-science nuts learned this century??

Re:Well, it was a nice run (5, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 2 years ago | (#42877747)

Actually, it really wasn't all that long of a run, in the grand scheme of things. I mean, Athens had a century or so as the center of learning, Alexandria lasted several centuries, Rome had a couple of really good centuries, Baghdad spent 3 centuries on top, Britain had a pretty impressive run from about the mid 1600's to the end of the Industrial Revolution, etc. And what all of those societies had in common was that they placed the highest value on knowledge and learning and not so much value on foolish religiousity. And the ruling class supported those scientific efforts for their own sake, not just because they were profitable.

Re:Well, it was a nice run (3, Insightful)

morcego (260031) | about 2 years ago | (#42877789)

Actually, it really wasn't all that long of a run, in the grand scheme of things.

True. It was pretty much since the 1940s. But it was still a good run. Some very smart people in the USA government saw the writing in the wall and figure it would be a good idea to welcome all those scientists fleeing Europe (WWI and WWII) with open arms, and start investing heavily in science.

I bet they are turning inside their graves right now, so to speak.

Re:Well, it was a nice run (4, Funny)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 2 years ago | (#42877841)

And what is it that put America in the forefront of the nuclear nations? and what is it that will make it possible to spend 20 billion dollars of your money to put some clown on the moon? Well, it's good old American know-how, that's what, as provided by good old Americans like Dr. Wernher von Braun.

- Tom Lehrer

Re:Well, it was a nice run (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877953)

So .. we support perfidious Albion in WW1 ( creating the Nazi ascendancy ) and Stalin in WW2 returning globalist blo-jobs to the cosmopolitans who produced nuclear weapons. And in the process butchered millions, pandered Bantu Neoliths and acquired an empire while destroying our republic. From his grave Jefferson screamed in pain. Nice feckin-A work ....

Re:Well, it was a nice run (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877777)

Missouri demonstrates a negative correlation of evolution and intelligence. Those inbred motherfuckers are as stupid as a bag of primordial slime.

Still, America will continue to lead the world in science, technology and military power. So, fuck off you ignorant little third-world cunt.

Re:Well, it was a nice run (1)

Ryanrule (1657199) | about 2 years ago | (#42877917)

Its not like we dont know how to deal with this. Bomb them and install a democratic government. Simple.

Re:Well, it was a nice run (1)

runeghost (2509522) | about 2 years ago | (#42877967)

Unfortunately, America's "install democratic government" app keeps crashing. Perhaps we should go back to whichever one we were using in the mid-1940s?

I didn't know Missouri .... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877555)

... was in Uzbki Bekki Stan Stan. Learn something every day.

glad (2, Funny)

meandmatt (2741421) | about 2 years ago | (#42877559)

Hmm, I am glad they are done indoctrinating children with Evolution.

Re:glad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877675)

Yes, because the truth is a terrible thing children must be protected from. That way they can grow up just as delusional as their parents.

Public schooling is a bad idea. (1, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | about 2 years ago | (#42877561)

As long as there's a monopoly on schooling, what gets taught in those schools will be a political issue. End the monopoly, let's have school competition, and we'll see that schools that teach hogwash will be less successful than schools that teach science.

-jcr

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 2 years ago | (#42877603)

Market based scooling.

Right. That's worked so well for energy policy and banking.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

jcr (53032) | about 2 years ago | (#42877685)

That's worked so well for energy policy and banking.

Energy and banking are two of the most-regulated industries in this country. What point are you trying to make?

-jcr

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42877763)

I was going to try to answer, but examples like Enron and 2008 financial meltdown I was going to bring up only raise more questions.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (5, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | about 2 years ago | (#42877765)

For a reason. Banking _de_regulation caused the world crisis. Energy market deregulation caused Enron.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

jcr (53032) | about 2 years ago | (#42877819)

Banking _de_regulation caused the world crisis.

What's your next guess?

We were regulated right into this crisis. Read and learn. [amazon.com]

-jcr

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

Cyberax (705495) | about 2 years ago | (#42877893)

As usual, total fucking libertardian crap. There are two kinds of texts in this book: lies and misinformation.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42877779)

Also, how does that infrastructure (power grid among others) fare?

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

ATMAvatar (648864) | about 2 years ago | (#42877921)

Perhaps he was just referencing the fact that the banking sector nearly collapsed of its own greed and stupidity, that people in several areas around the country can light their tap water [youtube.com] on fire [youtube.com] , and that there was a little oil incident [wikipedia.org] off the coast in recent history.

Regulation didn't really play into the gp's answer, though if you want to go there, the banking and energy industries are two of the worst industries in terms of regulatory capture. The above three incidents resulted in a big fat paycheck, no action at all, and a slap on the wrist, respectively.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877663)

we already have this in higher education and the costs are sucking this generation dry and most of the degrees ain't worth a damn despite the price. not a good plan, bro.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (2)

jcr (53032) | about 2 years ago | (#42877773)

The cost of higher ed is due to government loan programs removing the market forces to hold the prices down.

-jcr

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

the_furman (931683) | about 2 years ago | (#42877805)

That's not true. Or, rather, that's true in some sectors (especially when it comes to the for-profit higher education sector that's mostly funded by the government) but it does not apply to traditional higher education (you know, the Harvards and the Stanfords and such) where tuition is mostly paid out-of-pocket or through commercial loans.

the market wants 2 buy securitized student loans (1)

decora (1710862) | about 2 years ago | (#42877879)

its not just the government. the hedge funds and banks love top buy securitized student loan debt - because it cant be washed away by bankruptcy. unlike subprime mortgages. you have an entire generation of endentured servants who have degrees from shit holes like Full Sail University.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

DFurno2003 (739807) | about 2 years ago | (#42877699)

I see this ending with states succeeding from the union and going to literal war with one another. Homeschooling is working well for my niece and nephews but that certainly is not an alternative for the vast majority of households.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (2)

the_furman (931683) | about 2 years ago | (#42877725)

This will make things worse, not better. One of the reasons we need public schools in the first place is to protect children from their parents, so to speak. Our country has a very real interest in making sure that all children have access to quality education, including children born to parents who don't believe in science, don't believe in government, or don't believe in education in the first place. The fist thing that will happen if the government gets out of the public schools game will be that a whole chunk of our taxes is going to flow towards supporting backwards "schools" where children will be indoctrinated into any one of the existing religions, and not get to do any actual learning. Over time, these children will lose out to those, who get a real education, but this won't actually be good for anyone. Ignorance begets ignorance, and these people, having lost access to a whole slew of opportunities as adults, will happily send their children to the same backwards "schools", in a never-ending cycle of ignorance and poverty. In the end, our nation is going to be even more polarized and worse off than where we are today.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (2)

jcr (53032) | about 2 years ago | (#42877787)

Our country has a very real interest in making sure that all children have access to quality education,

Yeah, how's that working out for you? Here on earth, American public schools are a ridiculously overfunded disaster. We've doubled spending per student since the 1970s, and we sure as hell aren't getting what we pay for.

-jcr

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (1)

the_furman (931683) | about 2 years ago | (#42877861)

It's working ok. Not perfect, but not terrible either. A hell of a lot better than it would work if we handed our taxpayer money to religious fanatics with the hope that market forces will correct for quality of education as generations and generations of people are "taught" that earth is 7000 years old and that god buried dinosaur bones in the ground to test the resolve of the faithful.

Just because our current state of affairs is imperfect is no reason to go from bad to worse.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (5, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 2 years ago | (#42877803)

... we'll see that schools that teach hogwash will be less successful than schools that teach science.

What do you mean by "less successful"? There is, right now, a network of parents and private schools and churches and non-accredited "universities" and museums that have the specific goal of teaching what the reality-based community sees as hogwash. They make huge sums of money, have growing numbers of students, and show no signs of going away any time soon. Their goal is to prevent students from learning about evolution, the Big Bang, psychology, or anything else that would convince a student to reconsider the religious truth that their parents and Bible-thumping preachers have told them.

Re:Public schooling is a bad idea. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877889)

tl;dr:

Fuck the poor. Keep them ignorant.

oh yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877585)

Bring on the stupid.

Re:oh yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877731)

'merica baby. Home of the intelligently designed, weapon free people.
There's no evolution, no gravity, electricity is a lie. God invented the iPhone and Jesus came and distributed it among us.

what dimension is this again? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877587)

What happened to separation of Church and State?

How many other countries have this issue?

Re:what dimension is this again? (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42877703)

What does any church have to do with this? This is about docility.

If biological intelligent design is taught, any proposed identity of the intelligence responsible for earth's biology shall be verifiable by present-day observation or experimentation and teachers shall not question, survey, or otherwise influence student belief in a nonverifiable identity within a science course.

DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY! Get it now?

Re:what dimension is this again? (1)

MarioMax (907837) | about 2 years ago | (#42877719)

The States are not bound by the 1st amendment. Only the Federal government is.

Re:what dimension is this again? (1)

the gnat (153162) | about 2 years ago | (#42877973)

The States are not bound by the 1st amendment. Only the Federal government is.

Not since the 14th amendment [wikipedia.org] . Your knowledge of Constitutional law is about 150 years out of date.

Typical Delusional Christian False Martyrdom (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877593)

They want to make themselves out to be the persecuted victims of oppression, whether it be from Scientists, Atheists, Muslims or whoever, to the point where they're completely discrediting themselves. Which will just lead to them self-justifying it when they are ignored over real and valid complaints.

Of course, they're also utterly oblivious to their own persecutions, but that's yet another problem.

Unconstitutional by default. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877617)

A state mandated religion violates my freedom from it. Show the science or get out.

Look I know God is real, but this isn't the battle (2, Insightful)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | about 2 years ago | (#42877643)

Is there some way to stop people from seeing evolution as a threat? It is possible to believe in a literal creation and an old age earth. I know when I say my prayers for God to cure diseases and feed the hungry that God will be increasing mankind's knowledge of science and technology in order for this to happen. Just because God never makes mistakes doesn't mean clergy who interpret scripture into theology never make mistakes.

The whole situation is embarrassing. On one hand, a few select Christians look silly for not being able to understand evolution. But I think worse yet, some scientists actually believe that if evolution is real that God can't be.

On one hand, faith used correctly is a great force to do good in the world. When you realize God loves you and you live after death, you can have faith to spend this life helping the poor instead of living for yourself. But on the other hand, faith in something that is incorrect, well that will lead people to unquestioning and screwing up the world. Zealotry applied correctly can be good, but I think you don't have to look too far to see some idiots.

Re:Look I know God is real, but this isn't the bat (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877845)

I don't want to live forever with such stupid morons that have all this 'faith' and believe in such insane garbage. it's wrong. flat out wrong. it's a mental illness and a holdover from the age when humans didn't know jack shit about the world. and it's very very very very stupid and frustrating it continues.

I'm not sure i want to live now with all these people running the place... Forever is out of the question. No way. Fuck that. no. just... no.

I'll take the void thank you very much.

Re:Look I know God is real, but this isn't the bat (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877925)

I totally agree with you...even if I do not believe in the big G.
Faith and Science are not meant to be mixed.

Cue Babel Fish... (5, Funny)

Marcaen (568601) | about 2 years ago | (#42877655)

That last sentence sounded strangely familiar:
        "If biological intelligent design is taught, any proposed identity of the intelligence responsible for earth's biology shall be verifiable by present-day observation or experimentation and teachers shall not question, survey, or otherwise influence student belief in a nonverifiable identity within a science course." ....

`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

woohoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877667)

Nicely done!
America Fuck YEAH!

captcha dissolve
because it is true

Freedom is good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877669)

If they want to ignore science, that's their choice. It just means their kids won't be able to find a job and my kids will have less competition. It's pretty clear there are many people in the US that don't get science and wish to deny their kids a proper education in the scientific method. The ultimate payback is when they're old and their kids can't take care of them. They have no one to blame except themselves.

Words mean things! (1)

The Archon V2.0 (782634) | about 2 years ago | (#42877683)

Nice to see they're putting the fucking dictionary on the pile of burning books next to Origin of the Species.

Following this logic... (4, Funny)

Skiboy941 (2692201) | about 2 years ago | (#42877705)

We should also devote equal time in astronomy to the hypothesis that the Sun revolves around the Earth, and that the Earth is, in fact, flat.

Re:Following this logic... (1)

Mitreya (579078) | about 2 years ago | (#42877877)

We should also devote equal time in astronomy to the hypothesis that the Sun revolves around the Earth, and that the Earth is, in fact, flat.

Why, are there any influential religions that believe that?

It's never about "fair/equal coverage", it is always about lobbying.

Re:Following this logic... (1)

RedHackTea (2779623) | about 2 years ago | (#42877971)

There are actually quite a bit of conservative Christians that think the Earth is only 6,000 years old! That could be a "scientific theory" to throw in there. The basic argument is that we have nothing that is older than 6,000 years old and that our "carbon dating" tests don't actually show the true age. Everything was created exactly 6,000 years ago and then either made to look older, or we are just too stupid to realize it.

Re:Following this logic... (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about 2 years ago | (#42877911)

And that Earth exists for only for 6000 years, and that stars are just bright dots in a black background. Hubble surely is another name for the devil to try to convince us otherwise.

Re:Following this logic... (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 2 years ago | (#42877951)

Don't forget the geoheliocentric system either. You still get the Sun going around the Earth AND you can explain more observations.

Tycho Brahe had it right!

Wait... what? (4, Interesting)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 2 years ago | (#42877711)

teachers shall not question, survey, or otherwise influence student belief in a nonverifiable identity within a science course

They're supposed to be teaching the scientific method. ie: creating a hypothesis and proving or disproving it.. If you can't prove or disprove it, you've failed. Yet it is illegal for the teachers to mark it as wrong, since they can't question it?

So I could say elephants have a long nose because the flying spaghetti monster decried that it shall have a noodley appendage and I would be correct because I don't have to verify the identity of the flying spaghetti monster?

Re:Wait... what? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877949)

No, a Christian is pushing this law. They will push another to ensure you are wrong.

what do you teach? (4, Insightful)

Spiked_Three (626260) | about 2 years ago | (#42877715)

I mean not that I any way believe in any of the ID stuff (flying spaghetti monsters is my bumper sticker), but, even if you do, what do you teach?

"Some super brain/being designed it all. End of story".

This is so wrong on so many levels. The dumbing down of children for fanaticals has to stop, one way or another. People like Rick Sanatorium are destroying this country and need to be run out.

Re:what do you teach? (0)

Kenja (541830) | about 2 years ago | (#42877831)

I mean not that I any way believe in any of the ID stuff (flying spaghetti monsters is my bumper sticker), but, even if you do, what do you teach?

You teach hate and intolerance of the nonbelievers, same as the taliban etc.

Man invented intelligent design (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877741)

There's no reason God couldn't have created evolution, and there was no problem with evolution theory until the late 20th century.

SOMEONE, and I do mean ONE person, decided that God created everything but NOT evolution, and made it a test of faith.

And a section of the right wing religious extremists have decided to follow this false prophet, to the ridiculous extent that they're denying basic common sense. The earth was not created only a few thousand years ago, core samples and carbon dating show that, but even the 'animals in rocks' shows that. The world's animals have changed over time, look at the rock shadows, do you see a puppy? No? So the animals have changed.

It's just a control mechanism, a way to get people to reject science which might be incompatible with your business interests.

Re:Man invented intelligent design (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877899)

there was no problem with evolution theory until the late 20th century

And you're accusing them of ignorance? No, evolution has been a hot topic for a long, long time. Go read just about any history of fundamentalism in the US. (I took a course on fundamentalism and evangelicalism in America in college, 20 years ago. It was one of the best I ever took; the professor was an ordained Baptist minister and a former state representative, so he knew how to keep a crowd interested.)

Listen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877755)

Do you hear banjos?

I support this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877757)

I support the freedom of the people of Missouri to keep these people in office, and their ability to teach this.

I object to the use of government resources to do it... but...I guess...that's part of democracy.

I also support the freedom of all other universities to count any applicants from a Missouri public school at a penalty when they apply due to the extensive remedial education that will be needed...

Re:I support this (1)

Chas (5144) | about 2 years ago | (#42877903)

If you support this you're an idiot.

They don't have the right to spend government money spreading lies this way.

Because that's essentially what this is.

What next?
Teaching of phrenology and research into bodily humors alongside medical training?
The theraputic values of regular bleeding and other assorted quackery?

No.

NO.

HELL FUCKING NO!

Don't worry (2)

dubbayu_d_40 (622643) | about 2 years ago | (#42877759)

In the long run, I'm pretty sure this is more harmful to religion than anything else.

Teach Magic Smoke theory of electricity (1)

PineGreen (446635) | about 2 years ago | (#42877793)

The best way to fight these retards would be to demand that Magic Smoke Theory of Electricity [wikipedia.org] is given equal class-room time as the Maxwell's equations. And if anyone asks why, you tell them.

"... student belief in a nonverifiable identiy" (2)

feedayeen (1322473) | about 2 years ago | (#42877817)

50 bucks says an atheist wrote that line as an easter egg.

As I said yesterday... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877835)

Zombies exist and they do want your brains. In exchange, you get an imaginary friend or two, or three, or more. You may even become a zombie yourself for a time, going from house to house trying to infect the living. It depends on the sort of zombie that comes to your door and what book(s) he/she/it may be carrying - or clothing they may [or may not] be wearing - or the following he/she/it may represent.

Identity of the intelligence responsible (1)

Megahard (1053072) | about 2 years ago | (#42877843)

...shall be verifiable by present-day observation

That's why it's the "Show Me" state.

You're being played (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877851)

It's a bill. It won't pass. It won't be signed. You're being played because you are prone to hysterical responses.

Because a wizard did it (2)

Eightbitgnosis (1571875) | about 2 years ago | (#42877865)

Sounds like the answer to most every question in science class can now be answered, "Because a wizard did it".

Woe be it to the teacher who questions the "Get out of Science Class"-Wizard!

Religion feels under threat? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877871)

The religious movements must really feel the pressure if they resort to hard-line legislation to impose their world view AND restrict the critique. And to completely redefine the term "scientific theory" to suit your agenda feels entirely like a Stalinist reasoning. In the USSR, during the most repressive period, members of the opposition were committed for life to mental institutions because, to paraphrase, only mad men would oppose the great ideals of the communist movement. Will we see something similar in the US? Atheists being sent to mental institutions, because only mad men would hold no faith in their hearts and minds?

Fuck that state (1)

Ryanrule (1657199) | about 2 years ago | (#42877901)

They are clearly unable to govern themselves. Federalize that state.

This is why we need to mock religion (5, Insightful)

accessbob (962147) | about 2 years ago | (#42877907)

These bigoted idiots get away with what they do and say because we,

who do know better,

don't treat them and their ideas with the mockery that they deserve.

Respecting their right to believe (and we must) is not the same as respecting the idiotic beliefs that they hold.

Teach whatever is necessary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42877943)

to bring modern life to its knees. If that means "God didn't say anything about a phone", so we don't know how to build one, use one, repair one, ok, than it's ok. Make 21st century a dark one. Do it.

OMG, I'm depressed (1)

zennyboy (1002544) | about 2 years ago | (#42877965)

...For America. I'm sure 99% of Americans here are wonderful and intelligent, but this is the 2nd post in a week in a similar fashion and it really does not make you guys look good :-(

**I am not anti-American - I am anti-stupid**

Pea-Roast of previous topic on this (1)

zennyboy (1002544) | about 2 years ago | (#42877979)

As TFA is about schools, let me offer this explanation:
It's not about critical thinking to test a false theory.
Within the school environment you have a certain amount of time to teach a subject. If you teach two 'versions' of it (one true, one false) to gain critical thinking, you halve the amount of time to teach the Quite Obviously True (TM) version.

If the answer comes around to God Did It, it should be taught in Church, not school

But... (2)

olip85 (1770514) | about 2 years ago | (#42877993)

Why not let the elected officials teach their electors' children what their electors want them to teach their children? They are representing their electors. Isn't the core of democracy giving the majority of people what they want, no matter what it is?

I don't see the problem. What they'll teach is wrong and isn't the truth. So what? Lots of shit you hear and people tell you are wrong and not the truth. Eventually these kids will grow up and do a bit of reading and learn things on their own. And eventually some of them will come to realize that what they learnt in school wasn't true. And they'll know then to take everything with a grain of salt. Isn't that a good lesson?

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