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Why We Love Firefox, and Why We Hate It

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the numbers-at-the-end-of-it dept.

Firefox 665

An anonymous reader sends this quote from Conceivably Tech: "Admit it. You are in a love-hate relationship with Firefox. Either Mozilla gets Firefox right and you are jumping up and down, or Mozilla screws up and you threaten to ditch the browser in favor Chrome. Mozilla's passionate user base keeps Firefox dangling between constant ups and downs, which is a good thing, as long as Mozilla is going up. Unfortunately, that is not the case right now. Mozilla's market share has been slipping again at a significant pace. There has been some discussion and finger-pointing, and it seems that the rapid release process has to take the blame this time. Are we right to blame the rapid release process?" What do you find most annoying or gratifying about Firefox these days?

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Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879649)

After years of running Firefox on Linux I finally got a job and upgraded to Internet Eplorer running on Windows.

It's so much better! Thank you Bill!

Re:Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879691)

After years of running Firefox on Linux I finally got a job and upgraded to Safari running on OS X.

It's so much better! Thank you Steve!

Re:Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879833)

After years of running Internet Explorer on Windows, I finally changed jobs and upgraded to Mozilla on Linux. It was so much better! Thank you Patrick!

Re:Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879851)



Re:Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (5, Interesting)

openfrog (897716) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879845)

After years of running Firefox on Linux I finally got a job and upgraded to Internet Eplorer running on Windows.

It's so much better! Thank you Bill!

After years of running Firefox on Linux I finally got a job and upgraded to Safari running on OS X.

It's so much better! Thank you Steve!

See the alternate picture here, that could have been a reality, or that could come back? I am very grateful to Firefox, an open source/collective, and a very successful, effort to get rid of a Microsoft monopoly, and of the horrid experience that IE6 was. We have yet to appreciate the magnitude and the significance of this, even though we all think we understand it.

For this reason, I am very loyal to Firefox and ready to be patient with minor misdirections.

Firefox usage might have declined somewhat, but Chrome has speeded up the decline of those who think nothing of public standards, and it is a good thing, provided that Firefox remains strong.

On the website I manage at the University of Cambridge (granted, those are pretty well educated users), Explorer, all versions confounded, is down to around 25%. I have watched the steady decline of this number month after month over the past few years, with the same contentment every time.

Evil is not all powerful.

Re:Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879981)

Second AC here. I just couldn't stand the troll. I am actually using Safari, but I truly appreciate what Firefox did in stopping the all powerful IE when I started using it on OSX around 10 years ago or however long ago (Panther).

Re:Upgrade to Internet Explorer! (0)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879925)

See, the best thing about Firefox is it doesnt come with drama...

Forced Upgrades? (4, Insightful)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879651)

The problem is not rapid release unless Mozilla is forcing upgrades upon users.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (5, Insightful)

Nemyst (1383049) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879667)

Funny thing is, most people who ditch Firefox move on to Chrome, which has a rapid release cycle with automatic and hidden updates.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (4, Insightful)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879705)

The main difference being that those updates don't tend to kill your plugins like they do in firefox.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (5, Informative)

McDutchie (151611) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879885)

Firefox fixed that problem ages ago.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (4, Insightful)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879903)

It wasn't fixed when I left for Chrome about 6 months ago. I guess I'm not sure how long "ages" is for you.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (5, Insightful)

equex (747231) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879947)

I'm pretty sure the word 'age' in IT measures the time from when someone switched from something to something else and then notifying you about it. Some sort of temporal penis length.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (5, Insightful)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879989)

Plus, Chrome's UI seems more set in stone. Firefox's did seem that way until some time after Google introduced their competing product, but then Mozilla thought it would be a brilliant idea to fuck with the UI to the point where not only the interface but now the release cycle tries to mimic Chrome as closely as possible. Mozilla's browser still feels like it's in a constant, never-ending state of flux, and Mozilla is still trying fucking with the UI, making me dread every new "version" of Firefox that is released.

Although I didn't really care for Chrome's interface to begin with (and still don't), at least it's stable and not in a constant state of change, so I've been contemplating switching to it. The problem is, I will be missing out on a lot of things I'm used to, especially many of Firefox's extensions.

Now we've got Google's Chrome which is catching up on the deal-breaking extensions it still somewhat lacks but seemingly faster at handling javascript-heavy pages, and Mozilla's Chrome wannabe tripping all over itself to be even more like the real thing. AdBlock Plus is now working (as a testing release) for Chrome, so that's one major thing not holding me back any longer. I have no idea what the status of NoScript on Chrome is, but that's the other major thing holding me back.

I also don't like how in Chrome to access the bookmarks menu you have to click a button all the way over to the right, makes a mess when you start going through your nested menus having to move the mouse right, left, right just to navigate, but oh well... Mozilla has done a hell of a lot to make their browser a miserable pain in the ass to work with while making it probably more bloated than the Mozilla Suite before it (its whole reason for existence to begin with), so they're even.

As Chrome continues to improve and Mozilla's morphing rip-off continues to struggle with its identity by copying Chrome poorly, I imagine a time that I might switch completely. Never would've expected to say this back when Firefox was itself, after all, I hated the Chrome layout. But now... that's all changed. Now I'm just waiting for a good time to jump ship, when it's good and ready.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (3, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880059)

I hate Chrome. Every time I open a tab, it open 1 or 2 more processes. Pretty soon all these processes are fighting with one another to get HDD access, and the whole think freezes up 1 minute each time.

Firefox runs better.
And yes it's annoying that Firefox (and IE) is trying to copy chome UI. Firefox (and IE) should have its own personality, not clone somebody else.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879889)

Funny thing is, most people who ditch Firefox move on to Chrome, which has a rapid release cycle with automatic and hidden updates.

Unlike Firefox, Chrome was designed and developed with such a rapid release cycle.

Firefox has a rapid release cycle because of a desperate bout of "Me Too!"

Re:Forced Upgrades? (1, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879701)

You mean like how Chrome is currently at version 21? Did you even know Chrome updated?

Re:Forced Upgrades? (0)

DeathFromSomewhere (940915) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879823)

Did you even know Chrome updated?

No I didn't. That's kind of the point.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (5, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880013)

Did you even know Chrome updated?

No I didn't. That's kind of the point.

It's so feature-poor that frankly I do not think anybody can notice anything.

I think the Google's R&D could even take a sabbatical and let a cron job running in the background, bumping major/minor version numbers randomly and pushing them to users. And I'm pretty sure no soul would suspect anything for a very very long time.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879719)

So they go to Chrome? That's a bit backwards assed. There are so called LTS releases of Firefox, so I don't see the forcing. And you can stick to an older version, but why?

Re:Forced Upgrades? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879873)

Not necessarily. I use Debian - Yes, I know that means I use a Firefox lookalike called Iceweasel, but I am not being shoved updates. I have a nice stable two+ year cycle. Of course I don't get the newest features (still using Iceweasel 3.5.16), but I get to know how my computer will react.

Yes, forced upgrades suck big time.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (0)

dingen (958134) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879961)

The problem is actually that Mozilla isn't forcing their updates upon users. Someone who doesn't check it "about Firefox" box in a while easily gets 6 versions behind in no time.

Silent and forced updating like Chrome does really is the best way to keep the web moving forward without being obnoxious about it towards your users.

Re:Forced Upgrades? (2)

Fuzzums (250400) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880035)

Not even that. Frequent upgrades are not bad as long as you know what you get.
If it's bug fixes. Please, upgrade me.
But breaking plugins (I miss my beloved mouse gestures) and changing the gui every time. That sux.

One crashed tab taking down the whole browser (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879653)

Get separate processes already.

Flash (5, Insightful)

Naatach (574111) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879665)

I know it's Adobe's fail, but Flash is still everywhere. When the browser locks up on Flash sites, it is annoying.

Re:Flash (4, Informative)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879717)

Kill 'plugin-container.exe' if you're using Firefox. You have to reload the page to get flash working, but the rest of Firefox is unaffected.

Re:Flash (1)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879753)

Within the past year, I started getting flash crashes on Firefox. I think it was the 'plugin-container' update. Flash is quite unstable anymore.

Re:Flash (2)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879933)

To add; on windows, after invoking ff my system locks up (meaning COMPLETELY unresponsive, for at least 5 minutes (yes, FIVE minutes, if not longer), until it finishes doing whatever it does.) I've tried sitting on the problem through two unpdates. After the second without any change to the problem I switched to chrome, which I dislike compared to my previous experience with ff. But to date, I still use chrome on Windows. On linux I never had a problem. The current version of linux ff runs like it always did, a champ. Through several iterations I've had one or two plug-ins give me a problem. So, still loving ff- as long as I'm on Linux.

Re:Flash (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879721)

Didn't realise the article was about general annoyances on the internet... I hate Trolls, they're still everywhere..

Annoyances (1, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879683)

What I find annoying about Firefox is that it has massive memory leaks and needs to be force-killed every few hours of use because it balloons to such a size that it starts killing the system it's running on. And that's pretty much a show stopper right there. There's no reason for a web browser to eat up 2GB of memory during regular use.

Re:Annoyances (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879735)

Gee, wonder what I'm doing wrong...my Firefox is taking up only 250mb...

Re:Annoyances (4, Informative)

gigaherz (2653757) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879737)

I have never felt those leaks everyone seems to get, but regardless the recent (10+) versions of Firefox have been removing most of the leaks. And many of them weren't happening in the core any more, they were in poorly coded extensions.

Re:Annoyances (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879747)

Which is why Mozilla worked so hard to fix most of them, and my 2 day old Firefox window is reporting a little over 500MB with some 13-25 tabs open (not sure how different panoramas are handled).

Re:Annoyances (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879767)

I found that only some addons cause this. My FF was using up to to 2GB lately, I disabled RES and now it's stable around 600MB at all times (I've got a looooot of tabs).

Memory hog? (4, Insightful)

overshoot (39700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879801)

I don't get it. Restart Firefox every few hours?

I run mine for weeks at a stretch with seven or eight windows each with a bunch of tabs. Currently using about 840 MB.

I have my complaints (the idiot release cycle being high on the list) but memory hogging isn't anywhere near the top.

plugins (2)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880047)

It totally depends on the plugins you use. I have routinely over 300 tabs open and have several plugins that appear to be leaking. The end result is that even typing this comment gives me frequent 2 second lag in screen updates and flash movies aren't watchable.

It's not possible to tell firefox to run each tab/window as a separate process, or each tab/pages plugins as a separate container. That way, it'd be easy to find out which plugin and which tab is giving you crap and you could work around it or file meaningful bugreports.

Re:Annoyances (4, Interesting)

b4dc0d3r (1268512) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879811)

We've had this discussion already. FireFox developers denied there were problems, then admitted, then introduced numerous fixes. Memshrink began June 2011 and has shown progress almost every week for over a year.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Performance/MemShrink [mozilla.org]

I left it for a while, then got irritated by Chrome's anemic script-blocking (nothing is temporary). Coming back, I haven't had any problem with memory.

Because I have script blocking, and settings are stored in a script file, it sometimes fails to restore tabs or browsing sessions if I kill it (for the sole purpose of saving tabs while I reboot or know I won't be browsing for a while). That's mostly user-error, and partly interference from a 3rd-party plugin.

Re:Annoyances (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879849)

you need to upgrade to one of the latest versions - I think mine takes up loads of RAM 'cos task manager says it's using 301k, and that's with a full-page flash game going (133k in a separate process)

Re:Annoyances (1)

anubi (640541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879853)

Thanks for mentioning the memory leak. That is my primary irritation with Firefox.

I love Firefox's speed, and plug-ins. I am not so impressed on why I get so many random hangups which sometimes require a reboot of WIN7 to clear... but then I consider the machine I am using this on is mostly used for internet browsing and file submission/retrieval. Like bits for power tools, this machine is exposed to all sorts of nasties I would not expose my critical business infrastructures to. There is no telling what kind of code the browser was eating when it crashed.

I would have thought that after this many iterations of Firefox, they would have the memory leak known by now... this is something I would have thought would have been corrected by the second iteration.

With the amount of publically produced plug-ins that Firefox allows us to have, I would have to concede that susceptibility to crashes is just about as inevitable as kids congregating at pubic schools share every bug that goes around. That's the price paid for being open. The price paid for being closed is that I will be allowed to use the product only as the vendor - bribed by special interests - will allow.

So called "UI developers" (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879685)

I used Mozilla back when Mozilla was a browser.

Then Phoenix came along, and I started using that. Much more lightweight. At some point it got renamed to Firebird. Later on, it became Firefox. All was well. It was a great browser.

Then at some point in the past, I dunno, 3 years, these UI people (who probably know fuckall about software engineering) got their grubby fingers into the project and started rearranging the entire user interface. A user interface that had looked THE EXACT SAME FOR THE BETTER PART OF A DECADE.

Then I entered this painful stage of Firefox use, where every time I'd upgrade it, I'd have to fuck around trying to get it to look and act like the browser I'd been using for years. Eventually I realized that they were trying to make it look like Chrome. Then it started wanting me to upgrade it every week. Fuck that. I use a browser to do work, I know for a lot of people the browser is mostly a toy. But I need my tools to be stable, reliable, and behave consistently and predictably.

So I switched to Chrome. Haven't looked back.

Re:So called "UI developers" (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879875)

As noted before, you do realize that Chrome is even worse in terms of frequency of updates, right? You just don't see it happening.

Re:So called "UI developers" (-1, Redundant)

BumpyCarrot (775949) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879959)

As noted before, that's kinda the point.

Huh? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879689)

I don't love or hate Firefox. I just appreciate it for what it's done, what it's represented, and the fact that it's STILL relevant and sharping the web, even in the face of gigantic corporations like Google, Apple, and Microsoft trying to wring the web in their own directions.

As a browser, it's just one of the good ones.. which is exactly the way I like it. I like having multiple good browsers available, in case one of them can't do something. And Firefox is the all-rounder that does what I need it to when all the cooler new browsers fail.

My love-hate (5, Informative)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879703)

Love: It can browse the web (yeah!). It's multiplatform. It's well maintained. It's up to date with the latest standards. The "3D View" feature in Inspect Element. The many good plugins.

Hate: A single tab can hang the whole browser. No convenient way to view an image with the wrong MIME type in the browser anyway. Too little and dumbed down settings. No more status bar. Still no good debugging tools, and the plugin Firebug is unhandy and annoying. The weird branding thing they do that caused Archlinux to not call it Firefox but various other lame names in the past (are they for open source or what?). No more innovation (why not try things like multiple tab groups or so instead of "innovating" by removing stuff from the interface?). The Android version sometimes crashes and once made the whole phone reboot after a crash.

I'm probably missing many things :)

Re:My love-hate (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879751)

Oh yeah, I missed one: its slowness.

Re:My love-hate (2)

hawkinspeter (831501) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879985)

I'd like to move away from Firefox due to it's slowness, but NoScript and Adblock are the main reasons I stay with it.

There's a bunch of other useful plugins and some are ported to Chrome, but I've not found a NoScript replacement yet.

Re:My love-hate (1)

equex (747231) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880023)

What ? Firebug is _unhandy_ ? Unless they botched it since i used it profesionally 2-3 years ago, it's pretty much the IDA of browsers.

Why are user numbers so different? (5, Interesting)

mkraft (200694) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879707)

This article states that Firefox's user base is shrinking by "significant" numbers and that there are more Chrome users than Firefox users.

The following article claims Firefox's user base is growing and that there are more Firefox users than Chrome users:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/firefox-continues-to-gain-as-internet-explorer-chrome-slide/ [arstechnica.com]

How can both be right?

Re:Why are user numbers so different? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879909)

This article states that Firefox's user base is shrinking by "significant" numbers and that there are more Chrome users than Firefox users.

The following article claims Firefox's user base is growing and that there are more Firefox users than Chrome users:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/firefox-continues-to-gain-as-internet-explorer-chrome-slide/ [arstechnica.com]

How can both be right?

Easy. Ask your collegues which browser they use. I'm sure you'll get a perfectly unrepresentative statistic too.

Re:Why are user numbers so different? (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879969)

Be interesting to know if either party was screening out mobile browsers.

Re:Why are user numbers so different? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879929)

Simple answer : different metrics. One stat counter uses unique visitor, the other one page views.

As a fact of fact : both are not reliable. User agent strings can be modified and no one has ever officially specified how to count usage. There is simply no reliable standard.

obvious reasons _for me_ (1)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879713)

Compared to chrome, it's slower (on my laptop), and it takes more ram. Which is automatic turn off for me. Like playing fps game at 15 frames per second. Screw that.

On the other hand, when site is bringing my chrome down, i fire up firefox... and it works. Softlayers virtual server order page was the latest to cause problems for my chrome.


Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879715)





"Admit it. You are in a love-hate relationship with Firefox. Either Mozilla gets Firefox right and you are jumping up and down, or Mozilla screws up and you threaten to ditch the browser in favor Chrome. Mozilla's passionate user base keeps Firefox dangling between constant ups and downs, which is a good thing, as long as Mozilla is going up. Unfortunately, that is not the case right now. Mozilla's market share has been slipping again at a significant pace. There has been some discussion and finger-pointing, and it seems that the rapid release process has to take the blame this time. Are we right to blame the rapid release process?"


Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879817)

You're still speaking English. There's a reason for that shit head.

A big country like yours and a tiny little one like yours, By proportion of population you should be way further ahead than you are.


Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879999)

Who is "we"?

We, the indigenous inhabitants aka Amerindians? Who you US citizens have stolen the land from and committed a genocide?
We, the immigrants from dozens of different countries?

The modern US citizenship is an artificial construction and an illusion.


the adult, matured world that laughs about the United Stated of Assholeness.

I love Firefox, but (2, Interesting)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879723)

I don't use it.

I was using NCSA Mosaic on Unix machines and loving it.

Later, I was using Netscape.

Then I was using IE when it was the only stable browser around.

At about that time, I started using the Firefox alphas (wasn't called Firefox then). It crashed early and often.

Later, when it became stable, it was really stable. It was the only browser I used on XP, other than testing in IE.

Of course, I'll always continue to love it. But these days, it's just too slow. It "greys" out all the time. Chrome never does that. And launching a new window is instantaneous in Chrome. Not so for FF. Not to mention always show "Well, this is a little embarrassing, we can't load all your tabs" when it restarts.

This is on the latest Ubuntu on a late-model laptop. YMMV esp. on Windows.

The point being Chrome is the most used browser (for me), and Firefox is the browser emeritus.

Windows-centric upgrades (3, Insightful)

hobarrera (2008506) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879725)

Plenty of upgrades have had pure windows-centric upgrades. For example, background updating of the user profile, an update service for windows, windows-specific UI, a plenty of others.

I find it annoying that there's some versions bring almost no changes to the browser itself, but bring plenty to windows-integrations, sometimes even to compensate for the OS's lackings. Meanwhile, I have an OS that has already solved many of those issues, and to me, firefox X.Y has not a single change.

Admit it... (5, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879727)

Admit it... you hate when articles start with "admit it", as if all potential readers are of one mind. I frankly don't love Firefox, or hate it, or even think about it. Browser's are about as valuable to me as a hammer or a chair. One is pretty much like another. I'll use the one that feels most comfortable to me, and waste no further thought on it.

Re:Admit it... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879893)

That sounds about right. Firefox is a pretty good browser and I often recommend it to people. It's not my primary browser, but I use it every so often and it's usually a pleasant experience. Firefox's little quirks (good or bad) aren't really enough to trigger an emotional reaction from me. People assuming the small group of mentally damaged people who "love" or "hate" Firefox do make me shake my head though.

firefox is not paying attention to market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879729)

firefox is facing the same challenge as netscape faced when microsoft introduced internet explorer. It is not that firefox users are deflecting, the faithfuls are still here. However the market size is increasing and the share left with firefox is shrinking due to this. Firefox is not getting fast enough onto the tablets, ipads, androids with quality. Instead firefox is trying to woo mass market by mediocre like changing version numbers so fast that it makes an average developers head spin.

I ditched Firefox at 6 (1)

DiSKiLLeR (17651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879741)

I've been a local Mozilla user forever.

I used Mozilla years before Firefox existed. Eventually Phoenix was spawned and it was renamed and eventually became Firefox.

I used Firefox up until version 6, and the rapid release schedule turned me off.

So a 10+ year firefox user gone... and I imagine it will continue to lose users with this stupid crap they pulled.

Re:I ditched Firefox at 6 (1)

DiSKiLLeR (17651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879749)

loyal* not local! argh! Must learn to proofread :)

I haven't thought about Firefox in some time now (1)

brokeninside (34168) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879745)

Between work and home, I almost never have a reason to fire Firefox up. Usually I use Chrome. There are a few websites that I need to access at work that are pretty much IE only. Every now and then I need a second browser running to troubleshoot something so I'll launch Safari.

This trend started about 2009 or so. Firefox just kept running more and more slowly whether I used it on my Mac or at work on my Dell laptop. Once my PowerPC Mac was stolen and I bought an Intel powered replacement, I started using Chrome at home in addition to work. I've never had any desire to look back.

Re:I haven't thought about Firefox in some time no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879913)

I have a friend who had a 2009 desktop just like yours. It slowed down to the point where he bought a new computer. It wasn't because of a browser; a full OS reinstall *DIDN'T* help it.

It's probably the computer or an update you applied to the computer.

IE6 forever. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879771)

Its rendering engine is out of date, but its user interface, low memory usage and corporate support makes it unbeatable. Still no 1 in China.

Re:IE6 forever. (1)

hawkinspeter (831501) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880029)

Billions of flies eat shit every day; just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good.

Uh... (1)

pubwvj (1045960) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879773)

"Admit it. You are in a love-hate relationship with Firefox"

Uh... no. What a strange idea. It's an inanimate non-object. I don't waste hate on it and I don't love it either. It's a tool that works for what it does. I don't tend to use it unless my usual browser, Safari, has trouble with a web site. But there is no love or hate lost.

Re:Uh... (2)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879943)

They're describing a love-hate relationship, which by definition means the love/hate goes both ways.
You may not love or hate Firefox, but Firefox sure loves and/or hates you!

I'm in the love camp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879787)

I still love FF. Every once in a while I've tried other browser (back in the day: Opera; more recently Chrome) but I always end up going back to Firefox. The add-ons are the make-or-break for me. I'm currently running 15 add-ons and they provide exactly the functionality I want. I wouldn't want to give up on Zotero, Ghostery, Stealthy, Forecastfox, and many others. YMMobviouslyV.

Firefox?! (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879797)

I use the all inclusive Seamonkey. It's a browser AND an email program. Take that!

I guess I'm in the minority (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879809)

Every once in a while, I try the other browsers and I usually stick with FF.

FF comes up faster - even loaded with all the plugins and add-ons I got in the thing. I don't notice any speed difference when running. It's memory foot print is now comparable to the others - if not better. And the most important thing for me is that their bookmarks work best for me. I do a lot of research of various topics and the fact that I can go on a google binge and store the sites that look promising in an organized way - and easy to get to - is perfect for my working habits. I don't like Chrome's or Opera's way of doing. Chrome's bookmarking is actually kind of a pain.

I'll have dozens of bookmarks. While I'm bingeing, I'm also weeding the ads, the ad websites in disguize, finding those really hard to find pages that are buried behing a websites own search/article database, and other crazy things.

Also, Firefox is multiplatform. It's real nice to go from Windows to Linux to Apple OS and have everything work the same way.

Oh, Safari - that's the only browser I actually dislike. Apple gets so much right but when it comes to their browser - do they have their interns work on it?

Re:I guess I'm in the minority (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879995)

It's because they want you to stop using the web browser, duh.

Developers have to pay an extra $100/year plus use THEIR tools (not anyone else's) to have something on their platform (not including increased development costs; an equivalent web design is typically a LOT cheaper to make than a native application), and they have ultimate vetoing rights going through their store. You mention Amazon or Android? INSTA-BAN.

Re:I guess I'm in the minority (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40880045)

Huh? Safari is the best browser I have EVER used. And I know every browser from Lynx, Amaya, FF, IE, Opera, etc (including some very obscure browser)

What's your beef with Safari? I would really like to know.

Nooooo? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879855)

It's just hate - we have switched back to IE cause Mozilla is implementing "features" that keep's us from doing our job: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013

Firefox and I broke up. (2)

HycoWhit (833923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879871)

Dear Mozilla,

I tried to keep the love alive. I really did. Always waiting around for you--one can only take your "Not Responding" so many times before my eye begins to wander to the younger, hotter browsers that appreciate me for who I am and still make me feel special. The last straw was when out on the road and you just wouldn't pull up any pages while Dolphin was happily flip-flopping around. Sorry--but I am leaving you and not coming back. You are a great browser and I'm sure you'll find that someone that makes you feel as special as we used to make each other feel. Best of luck--I'll always cherish our time together.

Firefox and automated testing (2)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879879)

I find that Firefox, when it updates, invariably breaks my automated testing process with Selenium/WATIR. I always have to keep current release -1 on hand. :-(

Bloat (1)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879881)

I've long been a Firefox fan and advocate. I'm using it now as I post this. But one thing that has really turned me off about Firefox is that over the years I've seen big performance hits with some releases.

Yea, I know that I run the risk of sounding like a curmudgeon who thinks that everything should run just fine on his old 8088 based PC, but I have several older Athlon based WinXP laptops that I still try to get some use out of. The one that I keep on the night stand by my bed was just fine for the things that I was using it for, until a couple of years ago when I accepted a FireFox update (you still had a choice at that time). Suddenly the system that I used to keep a lot of open tabs on started bogging down with only a handful of open tabs. I had already expanded the modest memory of the laptop from what it was when I bought it, it wasn't reasonable or practical to do it again. I removed all but one very needed plug-in and have been limping along since, but I don't dare upgrade it again or upgrade a couple of other older laptops that I own. And even on my desktop I'm stuck at 11.0, because I saw the warnings about no longer having upgrades be optional after that and can't risk having the same happen to my main desktop system.

I realize that they design the software for the current generation of systems, not older computers. But FireFox, after all, promoted itself as "lean and mean" with optional plug-ins to add many features. It is a shame to see it bloat beyond where it will run well on the same computer that used to fly with it. It is disturbing that FireFox wants to start forcing updates that might cause the same for other computers. The one thing that I would wish of them but am completely unlikely to get is an option to safely and cleanly "roll back" and update when this happens again and then lock the FireFox version on the last one that operated properly on the hardware.

Reminiscing (1)

AcjBizar (726431) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879887)

Firefox I remember that.

Firefox - spiritual benefits (5, Funny)

heretic108 (454817) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879895)

Firefox is the greatest browser, with advanced features to benefit every user at a profound spiritual level:
* Its memory bloat teaches us to be mindful of our resources, both within the computer, and our use of our resources in everyday outer life.
* Its slowness helps teach us patience.
* When the whole browser freezes up from a bit of incompetent CPU-thrashing javascript code running in one tab, it teaches us to be responsible for our own coding decisions and how they affect others.
* Its slow startup teaches us that wonderful things don't happen instantly, and that we need to lose our attachment to time

Stay away from Chrome - it feeds the ego by promoting our addiction to instant gratification

Keeps improving over time (3, Insightful)

heypete (60671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879897)

I've been using Firefox for years and I've seen it steadily improve. Sure, there's been some odd UI decisions (FF2 had the URL bar on SSL-secured sites colored yellow which made it obvious when one was visiting a secured site. The next version didn't. Up until recently, SSL-secured sites had a blue "secured" indicator to the left of the URL bar while EV sites had a green indicator. The blue indicator has been removed in FF14 and the green one is less distinct.), but overall the browser has improved.

At first, the rapid release cycle was annoying but that was mostly because the browser required admin rights on Windows to update. Chrome avoids this by having the update process run under the system account in the background. Newer versions of FF do this as well so updates are considerably less obnoxious and my concerns with the rapid release cycle are eliminated (though I still think the numbering scheme is a bit annoying).

I've found Firefox to be the most consistently-good browser out there. Recent improvements in JavaScript processing have made Firefox just as fast (if not faster) than Chrome on my system, plug-ins work consistently better than Chrome, and memory usage has gone down significantly in more recent versions.

Sure, the other browsers (Chrome, Opera, etc.) are pretty good and I really don't have any major complaints about them (though the lack of x.509 client certificate generation in Chrome is problematic; Firefox/NSS has supported this for eons.), but I continue to use Firefox as my primary browser and don't really see any reason to change at this point.

How is this news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879907)

Slashdot: Mildly inflammatory invitations for comment. Please click our ads!

Running process! (2)

indre1 (1422435) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879911)

Sounds familiar?

"Firefox is already running, but is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the existing Firefox process, or restart your system."

I'm just too fast for this FF!

The obvious one. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879915)

12 million in-your-face updates that requires you to restart your browser and breaks your extensions every time.

Most Annoying (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879917)

The most annoying thing about Firefox is the introduction of new "useless eye candy" in an attempt to keep up with the joneses -- a continuous stream of useless garbage that you have to turn off.

Examples include turning on "dazzling animations" and that "new tab page" crap. And before that we have "features" like default magical hiding of the current URL by obfuscating the actual URL in favour of a "URL for stupid people", obfuscation of error messages, and all sorts of magical horrid behaviour that operates in a non-useful fashion.

There are lots of others.

I suspect a lot of people use Firefox because it works and because it DOES NOT have all the useless frivolity and useless crashing flak and insecure crud invading other browsers. If you want gleeful animations, majically changing and flish-flashy background colours mutating at ever turn or majical shit happening without your knowledge or consent, including things like "hiding" information and magically "transforming" things to be "friendly", you probably already run one of the Queens of Insecurity, Blathering Magical Behaviour, Flashy useless animation and gaudy colours: Internet Exploder or Chrome.

When Firefox adopts the same scourge like piles of useless (and ill-concieved, nay brain-deadisms) as exist in TOG, there is no point in using Firefox anymore.

The most stunning example is Firefox for Android. It has all the same misfeatures that cannot be disabled and gaudy useless crap (that cannot be disabled) as every other browser for Android. As such, there is absolutely no point in using Firefox on Android. In fact, there are definite disadvantages -- it is far worse than the default browser on that platform in the gaudy useless non-configurable non-disableable useless mis-feature department.

Only One Gripe ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879921)

On X11, you can run only one instance of Firefox (also happens with Thunderbird). When you want to have multiple windows from various X servers, you can't.

Ask Where to Save Downloaded Files (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879923)

The "Ask Where to Save Downloaded Files" feature has been broken for some time. It remembers the last directory (which is what it IMO should do), but in a strange way: It seems that it remembers multiple directories for multiple tabs, and if you manipulate the tabs (close some, open new ones), the whole thing gets broken and when saving something, you're presented with a remembered directory, only it's not the one you expected. Or at least that's been my experience recently.I really like the globally remembered last saving directory the way that Opera and Chrome work. So I use Opera.

Better title (1)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879937)

Better title: "I don't like forced upgrades".

To each his own. I've been happy with Firefox and use it and Chrome at about 80/20. Use what you like and move on. At the end of the day, it's just a web browser.

Secondary point: Usage metrics are unreliable at best - just last week I saw one that said FF usage was gaining over everything else.

Firefox has warts but Chromes plating doen't stick (2)

gishzida (591028) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879939)

Hate the rapid release cycle of Firefox... but I like having No Script... which Chrome does not have...

  in addition I do not trust Google overly much especially since they seem to want to strip away anonymity. While I am certain Google can figure out who I am, I prefer the ability to walk down a digital street without being assailed by them or their government minions all of the time. Firefox does not have that problem in that it is the product of a software developer and not gateway to the revenue stream of a commercial tyrant pretending to be the friendly giant.

  If Google does not want to be evil then it would not love its revenue stream so much and let their browser development team become a true open source project... that is not likely...

Google = Surveillance, MS = Evil. What's left? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879945)

Chrome installs invisible shit whenever it wants, watches and records my every move and reports its finding back to the mother ship. Anybody who accepts that kind of thing has had a virtual lobotomy.

Internet Explorer is and always will be for people who don't mind being manipulated by a giant mega-corp currently run by a fat retard who throws chairs when he doesn't get his way.

Opera may be great, but I've never needed to bother to try it out, and aren't you supposed to pay for it?

Firefox runs well, it's free, it has lots of cool bits I can add to personalize it and it's not watching me. What else is there? I don't love it or hate it, but I sure do find it useful without feeling like I'm being used.

So try this:

"Admit it, anybody using Chrome or IE has given up thinking or having any self-respect and just does what the machine says like good little bovines."

Not the rapid release cycle, but (3, Insightful)

FlyveHest (105693) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879949)

I am a long time FF user, and have done a few extensions as well, and its not really the rapid release cycle that annoys me.

No, the constant change of the user interface, and decisions chosen by people who don't know anything about me or how I like to use my browser.

I cannot fathom why, when they change UI, they don't keep the "old" look in, and let existing users change to it, if they like, or stay in the old look, if they like that.

One of the largest bullet points in FireFox is that you can tailor the browser to your needs, via extensions, but somehow this doesn't extend to the most important part of the browser, or, any program for that sake, namely the UI.

THIS annoys me to no end.

The SQLite databases need to go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879975)

I love Firefox because I like its interface better than Chrome and I can configure it to avoid the blurry text that IE9/IE10 suffer from. What has driven me nuts about it since Firefox 4, though, is the disk I/O thrashing, at least on the Windows build. They've been slowly improving it over time and notably fixed problems with scanning cache and font directories, but the current versions still have a problem with periodically rampaging all over the disk for upwards of a minute while updating one of the SQLite databases, bringing the system to a crawl. I would rather it just rewrite the 57MB urlclassifier3.sqlite file in one big I/O instead of doing a zillion incremental update I/Os that monopolize the disk.

It freaking works (1)

overshoot (39700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40879983)

Firefox, IE<whatever>, Chrome, Konqueror ...

The IT crew at work insist that IE is the only browser they support. Except, of course, when their own official sites don't work with it. Then they point users at Chrome. Which doesn't work with other of their sites, not to mention doing a bad job of rendering XHTML content uploaded by users. Not enough Safari users to say, FWIW.

Meanwhile, FF renders them all reliably. IT can suck LN2.

My issues with Firefox. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40879987)

Currently, FF is my 3rd most-often used browser. The reasons are numerous:

1) Non-native UI - UI is cross-platorm (XUL) which means it doesn't behave like the UI of native apps. I use FF on a Mac and FF doesn't behave like a native Mac app. XUL is jut not pleasant to use and I have no time to learn all of its idiosyncrasies.

2) UI is slow - not only is the UI non-native, but it's also painfully slow. When creating tabs, I can sometimes see browser chrome being drawn. Ridiculous.

3) No support for H.264 and Mozilla cares more about open source principles than about its users. Mozilla is opposed to H.264 and they've been pushing for a dead format (WebM). They seem to think that they can tell creators which format to use. Well, creators have chosen H.264 in overwhelming numbers and Mozilla is still pushing their head deeper into the sand. So when their users visit a site with H.264 video, they can do jack squat. They went full-retard on this issue.

4) Crappy/horrible/antiquated layout engine. Gecko, Mozilla's layout engine, is the biggest pile of crap I've ever worked with. It's so old and crusty that it's impossible to reliably get new stuff added to it. This is why FF still has layout issues and is slower than any other rendering engine out there. They should just scrap that pile of crap and replace it with WebKit. It also doesn't help that a single tab can kill the whole browser.

So these are my issues with FF. It's the reason why I never use it for browsing and only use it to check my web pages in it. Mozilla has a ton of issues to work through and unless they can tackle these issues their marketshare will continue slipping until they become irrelevant.

noscript (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40880003)

having the NoScript add-on in firefox makes it amazing

Midsize company ditching out Firefox..... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40880009)

As a midsize company, (100+).
The missing support to easily configure the certificate db in firefox (from active directory), and the fact that it does not support using the windows store. (which may be controlled by active directory). Is forcing us to kick the browser out. Sadly but true...

It WAS ready for prime time... (1)

ff1324 (783953) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880021)

FF was a great browser and it was perfect to set up for those who weren't technologically savvy. But the constant failure of the Flash plugins have detracted from its usefulness. The occasional profile failure without any simple method of restoring settings is aggravating as well.

Memory hog? Not really...and if it is, so what? Buck up and get yourself enough memory to run everything efficiently.

It's just not ready for prime time any more. Almost, but not quite.

Threaten? (2)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880033)

Mozilla screws up and you threaten to ditch the browser in favor Chrome.

It wasn't a threat.
Browsers are about as interchangeable as Legos. I wasn't using Firefox because it was "better". I was using it because it is open source and because of Adblock and NoScript. During the FF 4 beta, I decided Chromium's plugins were "good enough" and jumped ship.

Firefox Bouncing Back (3, Informative)

PineHall (206441) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880037)

The last two months [arstechnica.com] Firefox's browser share has increased according to netmarketshare.com [netmarketshare.com] . Now this article uses StatCounter stats and eyeballing the chart it looks like Firefox's share has been mostly flat since January according to StatCounter. The point being is the slide I believe has stopped or at the worse lessened to next to nothing. The article talks blames the slide on communication and execution. The author likely has a point there, but I think things are no longer as dire as he makes them out to be. Another reason for the slide is Google advertising the Chrome Browser. I think that also has hurt Firefox and there is not much they can do about it. I believe the slide has ended or is ending.

I did ditch for Chrome (3, Insightful)

Dynedain (141758) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880051)

Either Mozilla gets Firefox right and you are jumping up and down, or Mozilla screws up and you threaten to ditch the browser in favor Chrome.

Or I already did switch to chrome.

1) Rapid releases... Firefox should have just done rapid releases, or not. Their half-assed approach to "transitioning" towards rapid releases pissed off a lot of their user bases. And they still make a big show about the fact they're updating. Chrome has a simple little indicator that goes away as soon as you restart the browser.

2) Memory... FF memory bloat was a big deal for a long time. At least where Chrome had memory bloat and windows crashed, it didn't take down the whole browser. Again, FF waited too long to try to implement this.

3) Dev tools.... Firebug is great. Chrome's built-in tool is just as good. FF's new native inspector is a PITA and it fights with Firebug.

4) Synchronized Profiles.... Yes FF had it first, but Chrome makes it damn easy to setup and manage.

5) Security.... Why can't I temporarily accept an a self-signed ssl cert? Why do I have to go through multiple steps to "permanently allow this acception"? Compare this to Chrome's red warning screen with a single click for "I understand the risks".

6) HTML5 video..... FF's insistance on not doing any video other than Ogg was stupid and shortsided. If you're not going to bundle the codecs, offload the rendering to the OS. That's what the OS is there for after all. Most web video player packages out there will now auto-switch, giving Webkit HTML5 videos whereas FF still gets Flash players.

7) Retina Display..... I was seriously considering dropping Chrome as my primary browser on my new Mac because of this. The beta channel of Chrome did support it (but that brought other problems). However, the latest release of Chrome stable brings Retina Display support for my everyday browsing. Too bad FF.

8) Integrated search/address bar...... I know most /.ers hate this, but truthfully I've gotten very very used to it and as a result, I get pissed when I use a mobile browser and forget to use the correct input field to conduct a web search. You're telling the browser to go somewhere. Why do you need multiple always-on inputs to do that? Do you really need the extra input field just so you can specify which underlying destination identification process gets used to handle your request? No. The computer's smarter than that, and simpler UI is better here. This is why so many people type URLs into the Google homepage search field. They don't know why they would use the multiple input fields they're being presented with. Give them 1 field that's smart enough to do both use cases and you make it an easier experience.

9) Tabs..... Contrary to what /.ers moaned about... if the content of the field changes with the click of a tab, then the field should be within the tab, not outside of it. This is UI 101. FF fought against this and /.ers screamed bloody murder when they finally switched behaviors. Safari "solves" this by drawing their tabs inverted so that the address bar is within the tab and the viewing window is sperate. IE puts a tiny address bar next to the tab strip. Chrome is by far the right UI here.

10) Speaking of tabs.... And the dragging tabs off into new windows is still kludgy from a UI standpoint. Look at how Chrome does this compared to FF. As soon as my cursor moves the tab away from the strip, I get a new window. FF waits until I drop the tab, giving me a preview instead that looks like I'm dragging an image out of the browser, not moving a tab to a window.

Firefox was great. Mozilla offered a superior product for quite some time. They reminded everyone that there was still a lot of room for growth and improvement in the browser market. They forced MS to begin seriously developing IE again. Competition is a good thing in that it challenges all players to do better. But today? Meh... the Mozilla team is no longer top of the game, and I don't feel any particular brand loyalty. If the new Safari shared tabs across devices is something I find useful, I might switch to that.

I still keep FF around for my testing, but it hasn't been my browser of choice for over a year now.

My story (1)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40880057)

I've ditched Firefox before. I started using it at 2.0, and loved it, switching from Opera. The entire 3.x series, however, had a bug that was unnoticed or minor to most users, but absolutely crippling to a few, myself included. Live Bookmarks (RSS feeds) were refreshed in the main thread, which meant that every time I started it up, it would stagger and sputter for over five minutes while trying to update all my feeds, and it would repeat the process every few hours.

For the entire 3.x series, I was primarily a Chrome user, starting Firefox once a day only to check all my feeds (I have yet to find an RSS reader I like more than FFLB). Very annoying.

The bug was fixed in 4.0, and I switched back. Chrome remains a bit faster than Firefox, but I find the performance hit is barely noticeable on my machines (I'm a gamer, so I tend to have more processing power than most users). And even a small performance hit would be acceptable if it means my RSS feeds are always in my browser.

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