3-Man Team Begins Ice-Survey Trek To the North Pole 137
Hugh Pickens writes "Satellites have shown how the Arctic sea-ice has been shrinking in recent years, but a three-man scientific team making an expedition to the North Pole should give scientists a better idea of how thin the ice is becoming. 'We're making the surface journey because that's the only way we have of gathering these direct observations of how thick the snow and the ice is,' said team leader Pen Hadow, who in 2003 became the first person to trek solo and without support from Canada to the North Pole. 'That's what the scientists really need to know.' There is more at stake for the British team than achieving some invented personal goal: 'The journey's going to be about 700 miles in distance, taking about three months,' said Hadow. 'In the earlier phases, the temperatures are about minus 50 degrees ... And we're towing sledges with our camping equipment and our survey equipment — almost twice our body weights — for most of the distance.'"
"Arctic ice modeler Wieslaw Maslowski, a science adviser to the survey, hopes the data gathered during the journey will enable him to refine his forecast of when the first ice-free summer might arrive. 'According to our studies, it's very likely that if this current trend of ice decline based on the last decade or so continues, or accelerates, the ice might be almost gone in summer sometime between 2010 and 2016.'"
Why walk... (Score:1, Interesting)
When you can drive? [wikipedia.org] If this is urgent information, shouldn't they use the appropriate means to gather it in about three days instead of three months?
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Re:Why drive... (Score:2)
Re:Why drive... (Score:4, Informative)
Unlike a car, you don't have to worry about fuel, and you can still cover 50 miles per day. Plus, snowkites have the ability to jump over crevices motorized vehicles can't cross.
Quadrifoils (Score:2)
Eric Philips is a pioneer of using Quadrifoils in icecap crossings. In 2002, with fellow explorer Jon Muir, [jonmuir.com] he walked/kited from Russian territory to the North Pole. [icetrek.com]
Re:Why walk... (Score:4, Informative)
Because if you RTFA, it states that they expect to encounter gaps in the ice.
If that happens, they expect to have to swim "for up to two hours at a time in darkness", all the time still towing their equipment behind them.
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Sounds like a job for a DUKW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW [wikipedia.org]
-Rick
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Top gear has the answer too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl3bsL7Nbnk [youtube.com]
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If you had RTFR (Read The Fucking Reference), you would know the Hilux can survive being awash in seawater for hours.
(Not to mention being set on fire, imploded with a building, and having a caravan dropped on it...)
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So, they are going to 'swim' in artic water for 2 hours in darkness, while towing their camping gear, food and measurement equipment with them. From the article, they will be carrying 2x their body weight. So, while they are swimming they will be carrying ~300 of dead weight, good thing they are all in great shape and from the planet Krypton. And you don't smell fresh BS?
What does it take for you to know you are being lied to? How about "after making their measurements, they will then band their Power R
Re:Why walk... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Out of curiosity, what were your meals like? Normal foods (whatever that means in such a climate) with larger portions, lots of energy dense stuff like like almonds and dry fruit, etc?
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Among other things. Add also lots of high-fat foods. If you're going through 10K calories a day, you'll have a hard time living off of dried fruits.
I lost all body fat... (Score:4, Interesting)
one thing i hadn't done for the south pole expedition was to gain weight. you're supposed to go up to 25% fat in body mass. i was down at around 10%. that extra 15% would have given me the extra energy reserves that i needed.
this time around i managed to get myself up to 15% but i got too nauseous to take on more...
this is what i looked like before i became ill [thethreepoles.com]
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on top of my daily half-marathon run
How long can a human body stand up to such punishment?
What we ate on the ice. (Score:3, Interesting)
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I never questioned pulling the weight, nor did I question the distance.
I question the "Swim in total darkness for 2 hours" statement. Sorry, but no human is going to swim in artic waters for 2 hours and live to tell the tale. Your muscles will lock, and you will drown long before 15 minutes has lapsed, let alone 2 hours. Hence my Power Rangers ring comment - only a fool will believe that a person will carry the weight described, then go for a nice artic swim for 2 hours, and then continue on the trek as
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Give up!!! (Score:2)
You called the article BS and implied the OP was gullible. You were then corrected by an informative post from someone who has actually done something similar. Continuing to defend your position with all sorts of irrelevant arguments is just plain arrogance.
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"...both ways !!". /. post at filter level +4 and, beside the funny comments from regular posters, all the insightful comments in that story are from you.
Sorry. Meme reflex.
Seriously man, what you do is impressive. What's funny is that I read
Re:Why walk... (Score:5, Informative)
--Maxime Chaya blogging live from the North Pole [thethreepoles.com]--
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The ice is not consistently thick enough to support machines of any sort
Nuts [argoatv.com]
If they want to have an adventure, nothing wrong with that, all for it. But these blokes are suggesting what they are doing can't be done any other way than on an arduous 3-month walking tour, which is hogwash.
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Some things, like climbing mountains, and crossing arctic circles, require the versatility of the human body.
There's no machine that comes even close to doing the number of things we can do, from climbing, to skiing, to swimming, to recharging with a good night's sleep.
There's no hogwash here, just a reality that we are all too willing to dismiss from the comfort o
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I suppose you have this documented elsewhere already but, I am curious - Do you have some custom immersion suits that will go on over your dry insulation (coats, pants, etc) ? Or will you be changing into a "regular" suit in sub-zero weather?
You will be taking flippers to enable you to swim in them (They are not exactly speedo suits)? They are not designed for swimming...
I think I would take an inflatable watercraft instead but I would worry that the rubber would crack at extreme cold temperatures (out of
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How do you swim in those things? Does water sometime spill down the neck? I bet that would be uncomfortable.
Another thing I've always wondered: How do you dry you clothes in arctic conditions? Even from normal perspiration.
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Why not go under the ice? (Score:2)
Re:Why not go under the ice? (Score:4, Funny)
If they measure from the bottom they'll be measuring its height. They want to measure its depth so they have to do it from the top down.
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Expense. However there are some historical records from the sonar on military subs. [nature.com]
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I thought nuclear subs could wander under the ice cap. Would it be too hard to measure the ice from one? Or is renting a nuke sub just way out of price range?
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Well, it wouldn't be very prudent to check how thin the ice is with a car, now would it? One might fall through and I can imagine making a cup of hot tea may prove difficult in such environs. I'm not sure I would be able to stand being wet and cold without a cup of Earl Grey in my hands. What a dastardly thought!
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The answer is in the text.
No it isn't. They aren't doing anything from the sledges that you can't do by stopping the truck, opening the door, and getting out.
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For those who are familiar with the subject, and the terrain, yes it does. Simply put: To reach where they want to go, they have to cross crevasses, steep(3m+) ice walls, extremely rough ice that is also sharp etc
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Meanwhile... (Score:1)
Why not use a car instead? (Score:1, Redundant)
Top Gear has shown it's possible. If the goal is science, not "because we can", not taking three months would be a bonus.
Does sattelite data show shrinking ice? (Score:1, Interesting)
I thought sattelite data showed the area covered by ice had remained quite steady over the last few years? Can someone link to the previous case?
Also, how will a three man team on the ground gain sensible data on whether the ice is 1 or 2 km thick?
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Wouldn't how much ice be a matter of area + thickness? Ice isn't a 2 dimensional object.
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This has been observed for snow in some specific regions, in particular above 3000ft in Greenland. Interestingly increased snow fall at high altitudes was predicted by the much maligned climate models, unfortunately the prevaling theory is that this will increase the velocity of glaciers.
I'm not aware of any data or even a theory that suggests increased thickness of sea ice, do you have a link? (not attacking you, j
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Arctic ice is very dynamic. The vast majority isn't more than a few years old. The problem is that more is disappearing than is being created.
Indeed it is likely that the arctic will become ice-free in summer in the pretty near future.
MODS (Score:2)
Leave it to the Brits (Score:1)
Re:Leave it to the Brits (Score:5, Funny)
I think these chaps must not be just British, but in fact English.
Because if they were Welsh they'd fly to the Bahamas, get sunburned, fly back and report "Saw lots of ice. Very cold, very white."
And if they were Scottish they wouldn't bother because they'd just go to Aberdeen, where it's proper cold.
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More Climate Change-balls.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Polar Ice Trends [wattsupwiththat.com]
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I strongly doubt you can find an article from NSIDC that agrees with what Watts Up With That? claimed they said, but I
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Why does ice volume matter? Because thin ice melts away much more quickly than thick ice does.
Re:More Climate Change-balls.... (Score:4, Informative)
It's the summer ice extent that matters. It's dark in the winter so any albedo effect is irrelevant.
The ice melts during the summer. So if you've only got 1ft thick ice then it will melt before the winter freeze restarts. If you've got 100ft thick ice then (in the past) the winter freeze restored the thinning due to the summer melt.
That's not happening now. You can argue that summer 2007 was a freak year for ice extent. 2008 wasn't, and yet the summer 2008 minimum was barely more than the 2007 minimum.
That's the problem with single year ice (which also tends to be more salty and so melts at a lower temperature)
Tim.
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We haven't had reliable data on the antartic for "decades". Second, generalising a huge continent which by itself has a highly complex climate is a little hasty. Third, while some local growth can be observed, the net result is firmly ice loss.
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Live Blogging from the North Pole (Score:5, Interesting)
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The question is whether your blog can survive Slashdot. That would seem a greater challenge still.
Re:Live Blogging from the North Pole (Score:5, Funny)
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It would likely be warmer. And less messy.
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-60F is cold. -60C is damn cold. (CO2 freezes not much below this.) Mind you, server overload might be damn useful then - use the CPU heat to melt through the ice and escape.
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Good luck on your expedition Maxime. Other than for research, I'll never understand why people do these things... but I'll also never stop being pleasantly amazed at the power of human tenacity, ingenuity, and bravery.
Wishing you a safe return.
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way cool! (Score:1)
Good luck and better skill on your expedition, I'll be following your blog!
Technology used for Live Blogging (Score:1)
HP iPaq PDA
Ricoh Digital Camera
Canon G10 Digital Camera
Solar Power Packs (useless for the first 4 weeks (no sun))
Lithium Batteries
12V battery pack
most of the above must be kept next to my body for wamth as none of it is rated at -60 C
--Maxime Chaya--
Oh and the connection is 9600 baud... (Score:1)
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Seriously, what's the cost of data transfer from a satellite phone from there?
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Awesome! One question: you say you swim across open leads. What kind of gear do you wear for that? Normally, getting clothes wet is a death sentence in cold weather. Not to mention that actually going for a swim for more than a few minutes is incredibly tough as well...
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the immersion suit is much like a diving dry-suit, but bright yellow and more 'plasticky'. you put it on, step into the water, wade to the other side, pull your sled across by rope, and you're out.
when you get out, you crack the ice off the suit, and then take it off.
immersion suit training in Minnesota [thethreepoles.com]
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Bookmarked! :)
godspeed!
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Cutting it a little close there, don't you think? Isn't that how Scott got himself famous'd?
cue "history is made by stupid people" [youtube.com]
Are these guys Nuts! (Score:1)
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You could make a sonar device that you lower from the chopper, then you don't even have to land...
The next step, of course would be a drone. When you take the people out, and the air-craft becomes very much more efficient.
The even more efficient step, would be deploy sensors that send the data to satellites. Deploy them once, they send massive amounts of data for years.
Efficiency very high ;)
Sex appeal very low =(
yep, I'm a geek
This is nothing new (Score:1)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole [wikipedia.org] (which is stationary)
!=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole [wikipedia.org] (which moves)
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7.777777777 miles per day (Score:4, Interesting)
That's 9-13 hrs/day. With the rest spent trying not to die.
Realistically, I would expect them to travel as far as they can in a given day. If they manage 20 miles in a single day, great, they just got a little bit ahead so when bad things happen on those days they barely make 1 mile, they'll still be okay.
Of course, I could read the article and find out if they address this, but (this being slashdot) I won't.
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With the rest spent trying not to die.
That's exactly why I want to see Survivor: Canada. Forget this taking people to survive in a tropical environment. Stick them up on some northern island and see how long before they get eaten by a polar bear.
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Okay, Let's put this into perspective. They are British? So, let's assume that they are also lugging a few hundred liters of Gin, and don't forget the Earl Grey. How straight and fast can you walk now? huh? Don't forget to add six or so hours for drinking in there.
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That's a man, baby! (Score:2)
I didn't realize Ann Daniels was a man. Shouldn't the title be "3-person team"?
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man
noun (pl. men) 1 an adult human male. 2 a male member of a workforce, team, etc. 3 a husband or lover. 4 a person. 5 human beings in general. 6 a figure or token used in a board game.
While you are correct in that it is not typically used that way, you'll notice that usage #4 IS Person. So technically 3-man team is an acceptable usage.
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Royal man.
The real question is not... (Score:2)
...whether they find any ice, but whether they find any gin.
Obligatory south park (Score:1)
Arctic and Antarctic sea ice has been -growing- (Score:1)
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You can see it from space
I can see the depth of your reading comprehension from right here!
Don't you have something better to do than whine about scientists going out and actually taking measurements instead of using models and guessing?
Can't they just use a submarine? (Score:1)
This is just a publicity stunt. If you sent a nuclear submarine with a top mounted sonar, you could put together a very detailed picture of the underside of the ice and fairly quickly. In fact, given the tendency of major powers to hide their ballistic submarines under the ice, I'd be shocked if those maps didn't exist already.
Uhh (Score:2)
This is just stupid. (Score:2)
The Top Gear team was able to make it to the north pole in a large Jeep. And they needed way less than 3 months. They had one guy with a dog sled, and two with the Jeep. The dog sled had obviously huge deficits.
And hell, take a big tank of fuel with you, and use a helicopter. Or something else that can land vertically.
Some people just make it harder to themselves than they have to.
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If they come back dead, we know drowning there causes zombie-ism.