Did NBC Alter the Olympics' Opening Ceremony? 499
techmuse writes "Viewing the 2008 Olympics opening ceremony online at NBC's Olympics website, you can see that the order in which the countries were presented was very different from the actual order of the countries in the ceremony, as listed at Wikipedia. NBC skipped roughly 100 countries ahead, then jumped back and forth, apparently delaying the appearance of the United States in its home market until later in the broadcast. (In fact, the US team was shown on the infield before they were shown marching!) NBC did not acknowledge this in its broadcast. Is NBC altering the reality of the broadcast to boost ratings? Was this true only online, or also in the live broadcast?"
This just in... (Score:5, Insightful)
Movie at 11.
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Informative)
It is not even displayed in correct order when it's hosted in the USA.
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Interesting)
It is not even displayed in correct order when it's hosted in the USA.
In Canada it was displayed in the correct order: Greece first, followed by the countries in the order they would appear in a Chinese dictionary. You can't really talk about alphabetical order since Mandarin use ideograms, not letters, thus the order is based on the rule of strokes.
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems like it's one thing to rearrange Olympic Events in order to show the popular Events in prime-time. It's another to edit and reorder the events (little 'e') within a given Olympic Event. Like is it ok to rearrange the order of appearance in one of the gynastics events because you think it will make for better TV? If so, would it be ok for NBC to edit a basketball game so it looks like there are more baskets made toward the end of the game, in order to make it all more exciting?
Seems to me like it's just an issue of where you draw the line. Obviously a certain level of editing would be unacceptable.
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Funny)
Movie at 11.
Movie at about 12mid/11pm CT on NBC affilitates tonight... due to Olympic runover. You just never know when those taped sporting events will end.
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Interesting)
What major network television outfit publicly linked the American Antrax attacks falsely to Iraq back in 2001 and waited until 2006 to very quiet acknowledge (but not explain the source of) its deceit?
Can boosting ratings, by feeding the American people false propaganda, be a treasonous offense?
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Insightful)
You set up the question just so you could answer, didn't you?
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Funny)
There..fixed that for ya.
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Funny)
Right, because the self-proclaimed sidestream media is such a paragon of truthiness. Fox News seems to think that fact checking is a payroll system.
Re:This just in... (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, I consider the idea of "mainstream media" pure BS. It might mean something if it was coming from some actual fringe journalists. But it mostly comes from right wing journalists with a huge following, who build up this whole mythology of the "Liberal Elite" conspiring to screw over the U.S., with outlets like the NY Times as their media lapdogs. They "prove" by jumping on every real or supposed lapse in accuracy they can find, while being damned careless about their own fact checking.
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Informative)
viewing the 2008 Olympics opening ceremony online at NBC's Olympics website, you can see that the order in which the countries were presented was very different from the actual order of the countries in the ceremony, as listed at Wikipedia. NBC skipped roughly 100 countries ahead, then jumped back and forth, apparently delaying the appearance of the United States in its home market until later in the broadcast. (In fact, the US team was shown on the infield before they were shown marching!) NBC did not acknowledge this in its broadcast. Is NBC altering the reality of the broadcast to boost ratings? Was this true only online, or also in the live broadcast?"
emphasis mine
To sum up NBC's 12 hour tape-delayed broadcast was in order, while the online version was shown out of order either due to NBC wanting it like that or, more likely, whoever put the parade online didn't pay attention as he/she was supposed to.
Re:This just in... (Score:5, Insightful)
Boosting ratings doesn't explain why CBS News edited its interview with McCain [google.com] a few weeks ago. He came up with a goofy answer to some question and they rearranged the footage, splicing in his answer to some other question, in an attempt to make him appear to be less of an idiot. What was aired didn't match the transcript. Maybe next time they'll edit the transcript too.
After that, I find this NBC-Olympics story unimpressive. NBC messed with footage of the Olympics? Who cares?
Last Post!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Last Post!!!!
Re:Last Post!!! (Score:5, Funny)
first post in UK, 29th post in USA!
Re:Last Post!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What web Broadcast? (Score:5, Funny)
If you are not Windows or Mac, there is no web broadcast.
Gets me thinking, how did a Slashdoter view the web broadcast... Is someone using Windows?
Re:What web Broadcast? (Score:5, Funny)
NBC alters the Olympics... (Score:4, Funny)
to further nationalistic propaganda. All the medals won by Americans in the past were all actually made of tin. All the better to make hats with!
Cheers!
Not news. (Score:4, Insightful)
This has been a tradition in Olympic broadcasts for years. It's called editing.
Re:Not news. (Score:5, Informative)
NBC, on the other hand, instead of showing one of the most exciting opening ceremonies ever, decided to show The Today Show and, in my area, local news (apparently some loser got arrested for a domestic assault!).
Sadly, this is not news either. Which is why most Americans who live on the Canadian border watch the Olympics on CBC.
Re:Not news. (Score:4, Interesting)
This is blatantly obvious to us Canadians when we have the choice of watching CBC or a US station... We watch the CBC live (whenever it happens to be...) and with 'low level editing' - and just sort of laugh at the US version which is in prime time and so altered it is just awful. The CBC primetime event is an exact copy of the live event. (Probably because it's cheaper just to hit play and not to edit...)
Re:Not news. (Score:4, Interesting)
CBC (Canada's approved Olympic broadcaster) not only showed it live, they also did an encore presentation starting at 6 pm.
They replayed the whole thing--all 4+ hours, no editing that I noticed. The only thing different in the encore were occasional live programming notes, and abbreviated (10-minute) news broadcasts at 6 and 10.
Why did NBC feel the need to so obviously edit their repeat?
Re:Not news. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sadly, American sports commentators have been told that "dead air" is absolutely the worst possible thing that could happen during a telecast. I don't really know why this has become the norm in the US. Dead air was obviously anathema to radio, but with television it makes little sense. Other countries' networks seem perfectly happy simply to show the events unfold on screen with an occasional comment from the announcers. I have to assume the American practice shows how little regard the producers have for their viewers, since the producers appear to believe we cannot fathom what we see on screen without the comments of some retired athlete to guide us.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This isn't even really an "American practice", as the "American Broadcasting Company" (ABC) didn't have nearly so much commentary when they were the "host network" of the Olympics prior to NBC's coverage.
Some of the "color" commentary is IMHO acceptable during actual sporting events, but not for the opening and closing ceremonies. I usually just scream at my television trying to tell the stupid "hosts" to shut up so I can listen to what is being said during the ceremony itself.... knowing that all that doe
Mr. Godwin please pick up the red courtesy phone. (Score:5, Funny)
Other countries? (Score:5, Funny)
Hi:
I thought only America was in the Olympics. When did they start letting other countries participate?
Re:Other countries? (Score:5, Funny)
The other countries are kinda like the Washington Generals, we just need them there so America can show of their skills.
Re:Other countries? (Score:5, Informative)
Since you asked, it was in 1969. However it wasn't until 1992 that a clearly superior team from another country was allowed to win.
They then won again in 1993, and the 1994 World Series was canceled when it looked like a foreign team was going to win for the third time in a row and the US teams refused to play unless the rules were changed in their favour.
Now you know.
Re:Other countries? (Score:5, Informative)
Nice revisionist history. The players went on strike because the owners wanted a salary cap. It had nothing to do with the Montreal Expos. Though it is true that the strike pretty much destroyed the Expos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Major_League_Baseball_strike
olypics video tech (Score:5, Informative)
I looked yesterday for where I could watch Olypics videos. Looks like I needed to instal some plugin from Microsoft that only works with "approved" browsers. Silverlight?
I don't even mind if I'm bombarded with ads to see video. I would even pay for certain footage of one person I know competing in Beijing and some of the events. But a Microsoft player? No thanks.
Re:olypics video tech (Score:5, Informative)
There's no such thing as a television network that operates worldwide, so Olympic rights are sold on a country by country basis. Web video rights go to the TV network that owns the rights for the nation, and they have a right to lock other web videos out and responsiblity to keep their web videos within their borders. Sorry, no open media formats allowed, NBC had to go with something DRMed and they're already friendly with Microsoft, so it's no surprise NBCOlympics.com requires Sliverlight.
Re:olypics video tech (Score:5, Insightful)
Two questions for you:
Why should the IOC do something that would devalue what it produces? The Olympics are run on a shoestring budget compared to other "profitable" sports.
Why don't you care about the Winter Olympics in 2010?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
AAAGGGHHH! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:olypics video tech (Score:4, Insightful)
hate them? no. An individual's emotional response to a company doesn't do shit. They followed the rules of US capitalism with ruthless and unprincipled efficiency. For that, I kind of admire their dedication to an ideal, even if I dont agree with their behavior.
However, I've seen their actions and I know what they have done - to individuals, to companies, to the computer industry and to innovation in general. The actions the company has taken and continues to take have lead me to be a vocal and outspoken opponent of any product that bears the name, every partnership that involves them, and every business venture they are involved with.
You can attack that point of view, call me names from behind your AC shield, and act childish all you want. The word is not "fanaticism" - the one you have to understand is "accountability". Many in the US seem to have lost this concept in the last 10 years or so. Choosing to not to do business with them was easy and happened long ago. Microsoft has gone so much farther, and there is nothing they could do, short of a complete breakup of the company plus new management that would open my mind to trusting them.
dilemma (Score:5, Funny)
Now I don't know whether to boycott the Olympic Games because of China ignoring human rights or because it was converted to a festival of commerce. If it goes on like this, I may be soon able to boycott each day of Olympics for a different reason.
Re:dilemma (Score:5, Informative)
It's even more commercial if you watch it on NBC. I swear if one of the athletes so much as coughs they go to commercial. "Fuck seeing the games, here are more inspiring ads from our sponsors!"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> Now I don't know whether to boycott the Olympic Games because of Germany mistreating the Jews, or because it was converted to a festival of commerce. If it goes on like this, I may be soon able to boycott each day of Olympics for a different reason.
Fixed that for you, or at least set the wayback machine to the 1930's. Not to 'Godwin's Law' myself here, but the problem of countries hosting the games to boost their prestige and defuse civil rights abuse is an old one. And the problem of commercialization
Re:dilemma (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, I think you are right. I can probably find a separate reason to boycott each day of the Games even now. Doping, commercialization, the new swimsuit controversy, human rights, Tibet, Avery Brundage reaction to Munich attacks, bribes deciding who will host the games, Moscow and L.A. "half-games"... and of course also the Berlin propaganda games (remember, you broke the law first ;)
What is more outrageous... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is more outrageous... (Score:4, Informative)
What's keeping you from just picking a provider from the list that they give you? I just picked the first one in the list (AT&T Broadband) and it let me in and watch the online version of the parade of nations.
Re:What is more outrageous... (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That was modded insightful, but I hoped it was meant to be funny, till I read your response.
What is it with people today that believe they should be able to receive anything they want in any form they want it without taking into account economic realities? I would imagine NBC has little desire at the moment to provide micro-managed services to each little joe and dick when they can sell in bulk directly to a few large providers instead.
Perhaps in the future that infrastructure will exist; maybe you can even
Broadcast version not altered (Score:5, Informative)
I just did a quick check of the recording of the live broadcast that I made. In every spot I checked, the order given on the Wikipedia pages matches the one in the broadcast. So, at least in the case of the broadcasted version, the ordering matches up.
Re:Broadcast version not altered (Score:5, Informative)
Ok, I just checked the online version... and it's totally mixed up and out of order. It's definitely not the correct order as seen in the broadcast version.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The "live broadcast" was not live.
Re:Broadcast version not altered (Score:5, Informative)
The order in the Wikipedia article (Chinese stroke count order) has been that way since August 1st.
Oh my, you mean you can't believe what's on tv? (Score:4, Funny)
Oh my, oh my. You mean the TV companies alter reality for marketing purposes? I am shocked.
All those yellow lines that magically appear and disappear on the football fields?
All those "billboards" that are not really there on the stadium wall?
I bet those starlets are even where padded bras. Do you think that they might even have had surgery. Goodness gracious, I wonder if Barbara Walters uses botox?
And those wrestlers. Do you think that they might be using steroids?
I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Actually, the MSNBC online video let's you pick what you want to see and caries a lot of obscure sports from end to end. Much better than listening to Pierre Salinger babble on about wine tasting in all the French villages while you are waiting to see actual athletes.
NBC Censors Olympics to Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
NBC has done an excellent job of insuring that Americans cannot watch the Olympics, the Opening Ceremony and other aspects of what is going on in China. They are the first to bitch and moan about China censorship and just look at what they're doing now! Typical media.
They don't have cable out here so watching anything on the Internet from NBC is just not possible. They have effectively censored millions of Americans from watching the Olympics.
What they do have has been cut up and altered to make room for all that advertising. And, just how many times do I have to hear "Ra Deem Team" from NBC. If I hear it again, I'm going to puke!
Now, there are plenty of NON-AMERICAN web sites with the streams and videos! China has some, Germany has one, and there are others. You get the point... AVOID NBC and you can watch for free!
OMGWTF!?!?! (Score:3, Informative)
Guess, take a breath. Yes, NBC altered the video. They do the same thing when you see movies. They take your beloved movie and ALTER IT!!!!!! They do this to squish down time and show more things.
Now, before we freak out shit out and panic that they are hiding something from you, realize that this stuff is filmed by more cameras then you can even begin to contemplate AND is filled with people from all around the world to serve as witnesses. What does this mean? It is really frigging unlikely that NBC is hiding "the truth" from you. Far more likely, they are trying to shrink a 4+ hour opening ceremony into something that will better fit their schedule.
Worrying that they some how were altering the live feed is so dumb and inane that I can't even respond. People, take a frigging collective deep breath.
Re:OMGWTF!?!?! (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh really? And for just how many movies do they alter the timeline of events? Maybe the cable companies have the ability to edit for time, but I doubt they get to rearrange the movie because it alters the story. Imagine if we could just alter the timeline of history so that whenever there is a dispute, an international incident, a war, it was shown to be the other guy who started it? Altering the sequence of events is changing the truth.
P.S. Hans shot first.
Re:OMGWTF!?!?! (Score:5, Funny)
"Momento" sure made a lot more sense when it was shown on NBC!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
who got sick of the constant zooming on each scene (Score:3, Interesting)
There was some incredible scenes to see but NBC camera people must have been told to zoom every camera and it diminished the quality IMO. The designers didn't create the imagery for moving viewers or moving cameras/lenses.
It really became an annoyance and a disappointment.
LoB
NBC is the WORST network for sports (Score:3, Interesting)
Dick Ebersole, who runs NBC Sports, is on record as saying that it is his goal to get better ratings, no matter what. That's why NBC doesn't post the running score of a football game, because they want you to stay and wait for it.
It's why they show all those personal profiles instead of sporting events. It's why they edited the opening games. It's why we can't see live events in the US.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Nice 1994 post. Ever since Sunday Night Football moved to NBC, there's been a running score line at the bottom.
Not the most disrespectful behaviour. (Score:4, Insightful)
While NBC may well have done what they are accused of (I wouldn't know, the BBC had it all live and unedited), it's not the most insulting thing they've done.
They bribed the Chinese organisers of the Olympics to put certain events early in the morning (local time). The swimming starting soon is an example. Why? So they would be during prime time in America. This sound fair enough, until you realise that prime time in America is THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT IN EUROPE. So we get to miss half the events, just so it's a little more convenient for the Yanks. I mean, it's not like we invented the Olympics or anything...
Re:Not the most disrespectful behaviour. (Score:5, Funny)
I didn't realize that the UK had such a big hand molding the games in ancient Greece. Thanks for clearing that up! I didn't know that!
-Just another stupid American
(tongue firmly in cheek, for the humor impaired)
Joys of a Delayed Broadcast (Score:3, Informative)
Sounds like the did stuff around with the order the teams marched in. They certainly had enough time to do it - it was delayed half a day from when it really happened.
Opening ceremony was at 8pm on the 8th of August 2008 (Chinese like 8 - it's a lucky number :) and Beijing is at GMT+8. Some of the folks here in Melbourne, Australia were watching it that night live (about 10pm onwards local time). Based on the twitter feeds from those in the USA who were tweeting what they saw, it looked like they were watching it around 8pm on the 8th in THEIR time zone. Somewhat impossible, no?
I'm already hearing reports of US swimmers being coached to refer to the time of their race in US broadcast time rather than Beijing time. Ummmmmm - WTF?
So yeah, if you've got HOURS between recording the event and showing it then making any changes you want is a piece of cake.
They ALTERED the CROWD NOISE too. (Score:3, Interesting)
According to friends in Europe, who watched the ceremonies live NBC totally used FAKE CROWD noise.
Apparently Vladimir Putin from Russia got the biggest crowd applause all night when they showed him on the big screen, and the Iraq athletes were given loud BOO's.
And all we heard all night long were the exact same levels of 'monotone cheering' on the NBC broadcast.
Don't believe ANYTHING you see on TV, especially if they had 12 hours to make changes,edits,lies.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Informative)
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Insightful)
I did, in fact, watch the entire broadcast. The countries were not broadcast in that order. You can find the order in which they actually marched in the wikipedia page. The issue here is that NBC appears to have altered the order of the events themselves. This is different from editing out bits to fit in commercials. The *story* has changed. Example:
1) You get out of your car and walk into a store.
2) You pull up to the store in your car
3) You leave your house and get into your car
4) You drive to the store
5) You leave the store with your purchase.
The correct order is 3,4,2,1,5, but the story told about what you did gives the impression that something very different happened.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah but more entertaining & original.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Except in this case it doesn't give the impression that something very different happened since aside from the first and last countries the order that nations appear in the parade has no significance. Still it's a pretty stupid thing to change.
More important to me is that they put ads over the performances in the opening ceremony so we really did not get to see the full performance how it was intended.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Informative)
I did, in fact, watch the entire broadcast. The countries were not broadcast in that order.
I watched the entire broadcast (TiVo'd it) and was so impressed, I stayed up until 4am and watched it all over again. While I don't have the countries memorized in the order they appeared, but from what I do remember, it seems about the same as on the Wikipedia article. The US came in about 2/3 of the way down the list in the broadcast and they're #139 of 204 in Wikipedia (or roughly 2/3 of the way down the list).
I did notice that a number of small countries got very short screen times and seemed "clipped", so I guess they edited out some content to shorten up the whole thing.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Informative)
"make something up" like apply 3000 year old rules, accepted by all for ordering countries in Mandarin?
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Informative)
So no, they didn't make anything up.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I would have assumed that since French is the official language of the modern olympic games, they would have used that for the alphabetical ordering of the countries...
Re:not a real issue (Score:4, Informative)
They always use the name collating system native to the hosting nation to create an ascending list.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Informative)
French is one of the official languages. According to the Olympic Charter [olympic.org], "The official languages of the IOC are French and English." But the convention apparently is to introduce countries in alphabetical order in the language of the host country.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Informative)
Most Chinese dictionaries actually sort characters first by the radical and then by stoke count within each group of radicals. I'm curious why they used just the stroke count ordering for the Olympics.
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Funny)
Most Chinese dictionaries actually sort characters first by the radical and then by stoke count within each group of radicals.
Fool! Look at the government sanctioned sites! There are NO radicals in China!
Re:not a real issue (Score:5, Funny)
No free radicals, you mean. Which is why Chinese always look so healthy and young.
Re:YOUR GAY (Score:4, Funny)
your gay and youe a newb your gay and youe a newb
Translation:
"Translate Server Error."
Re:kids today... (Score:5, Insightful)
Excuse me, are you serious? It's television , FFS! They edit, it's normal. Been going on since at least the 1950s.
This isn't the Dukes of Hazard or even Survivor. This is the Olympics. It's presented as news of the world's supposed ultimate sporting event.
Of course, the cynical among us will note that the psudo-intellectual wrappings of competition and the human condition are just dressing to sell the product. We know this really isn't news but entertainment and that the competition comes a distant third to politics and money. We can all sit around and posture about how we expect this kind of thing. But you don't get an award for being jaded.
Re:kids today... (Score:4, Insightful)
And thus, it's still entertainment.
Re:kids today... (Score:5, Informative)
you don't get an award for being jaded.
Actually, you do. [wordpress.com]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the problem:
(1) Country A attacks Country B
(2) Country B launches a retaliatory strike against country A
(3) Country C forms an alliance with country A
(4) Countries D, E and F send supples to country B.
Of course, the order of events in the news is only trivial.
Sequence (1,2,3,4) is no different from sequence (4,1,2,3)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> Of course, the order of events in the news is only trivial.
Yeah, right! Next you'll be telling me Iraq went something like this:
(1) U.S. troops invaded Iraq and overthrew the governement
(3) Iraqis attacked U.S. troops
Oh, wait...
Re:kids today... (Score:5, Insightful)
How in gods name did people get the impression that this was a news? It called the opening ceremony. It is entertainment. News shows do not typically feature fireworks, dance performances, hundreds of syncronized drummers, a man on a cable running through the air to light a giant torch, or any of the rest of the ceremony. Because, it was a ceremony for the purpose of entertaining us.
Re:I'm sure I'm the only one on the planet, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is more than a bunch of athletes my friend. Go back and watch the opening ceremonies, and tell me that country does not scare the fuck out of you. The level of discipline demonstrated by the performers, the sheer precision of it all... it all far exceeds anything the West could possibly pull off. And that's DAMNED scary.
China is living proof that, if not bound by troublesome concepts like fairness, freedom, and morality, you can achieve great things. That scares the bejesus out of me. The entire Olympic exercise, for China at least, is one of intimidation. Here's them flexing their muscle, showing the world that, at a moment's notice, they can throw away billions, not feel the pinch, mobilize hundreds of thousands of people without any messy bureaucracy, and completely transform the entire city nearly overnight (well, 6 years, that's damned short).
Re:I'm sure I'm the only one on the planet, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing that really hit me was how quickly they were able to expand their airport to accommodate for the Olympics. They now have the world's largest airport terminal, built up in almost no time at all. My home town (Vancouver, Canada) took nearly 20 years to build a single runway, between budget cutbacks, protests by residents, regulatory red tape, etc etc. Meanwhile here's a country that can completely rebuild an airport, make it into the world's largest, and still have time to make it an architectural masterpiece, all in 6 years. It's breathtaking and scary.
who regards the west as...savages.
Not really, they regard the West as hypocrites. The state media likes to play up images like Abu Ghraib and the various things going on at Gitmo. It's not entirely baseless, and that's the sad part.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
One thing that really hit me was how quickly they were able to expand their airport to accommodate for the Olympics. They now have the world's largest airport terminal, built up in almost no time at all. My home town (Vancouver, Canada) took nearly 20 years to build a single runway, between budget cutbacks, protests by residents, regulatory red tape, etc etc. Meanwhile here's a country that can completely rebuild an airport, make it into the world's largest, and still have time to make it an architectural masterpiece, all in 6 years. It's breathtaking and scary.
Before you all fall over yourself, it's entirely possible to do something of the like in the West too - when it matters enough. The Gemini/Mecury/Apollo programs in the 1960s for example, things got done when you're on the clock and national pride is in the balance. It's just rather hard to get that kind of support going...
Re:I'm sure I'm the only one on the planet, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's just rather hard to get that kind of support going...
Damn right, especially these days, where the lack of the fear of communism has made driving these massive projects impossible. The problem is that the West requires consensus (or at least something resembling it) to do anything of that scale. China just has to have one guy snap his fingers.
Absolute power, when wielded by someone who knows how to use it, is very, very dangerous for his neighbours.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Meanwhile here's a country that can completely rebuild an airport, make it into the world's largest, and still have time to make it an architectural masterpiece, all in 6 years. It's breathtaking and scary.
Any country could do that.
They just have to have the money and the will to cut through the red tape.
The difference between China & the USA is that in the USA, one City accepts the honor. In China, the Central Government is in charge.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The Beijing Olympics are a huge matter of national pride in China. As others have mentioned the United States has had its moments of national pride. That's what drove us to the moon over the course of eight years. The moon landings cost us over three times what China spent preparing for the Olympics.
T
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
As others have pointed out, all of this is really just a matter of national priority.
As a taxpayer I'd hate to have my national government pay billions of dollars to put on an athletic competition. I can see how providing standard police services and such are within the scope of a government, but throwing a huge party and entertainment show isn't.
Look, humans are humans. There is nothing saying that the Europeans couldn't have landed on the moon if they wanted to spend that kind of money. The Chinese cou
Re:I'm sure I'm the only one on the planet, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
An upside-down flag is an international signal of distress.
Indeed, and I found Lin Hao carrying it a wonderful symbol of China's acknowledgement of the distress it experienced after the earthquake and the way in which China has finally become internationally open enough to let others know of its pain and to ask for assistance. The ceremony was full of contrasts, and the upside-down flag was just one more: the proud and powerful China walking next to the fragile and weak China that needs help (who is finally not afraid to ask for it). I found this and the other symbolism of the opening ceremony extremely moving.
In context of a political display, that kid was basically saying "My government hasn't even begun to help rebuild my village after the earthquake".
How did you interpret China parading both its strength and weakness, and the fact that it wants to display both to the world at this, one of its most important international moments, an anti-government message? How could you watch the almost unbelievable near-perfection of the rest of the ceremony (the printing press, the Tai Chi masters...) and think the flag could be an accident? It's really quite a stretch of the imagination.
There's a message in there about Chinese culture, too, and I don't think it was the one they wanted to send.
To me, they sent exactly the message I imagine they wanted to send. Perhaps they did fail at sending their message. But, if so, it was not a matter of the upside-down flag not being planned. Their failure would be that they expected you and the Western world to understand that their asking for help and letting their weakness and tragedy be seen is as important as a show of strength at the games.
Perhaps the government-run media did crop the flag from the images released within China to manage the internal interpretation. Perhaps it was a controversial decision that not everyone important knew about ahead of time, and that someone with power disapproved of after seeing. I'm not saying that this symbolism matches at all how the government operates, even if it seems to be moving in that direction. I'm not saying that it's part of the government's ideology or plan. But for what it is not, it is a powerful message that is hard to believe was not deliberate and planned at some type of government-approved level.
You are correct--I couldn't ever imagine seeing a US flag upside-down in an international ceremony. That's why I was especially touched to see China acknowledge their distress and their need for assistance in a way that my own country never would.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Everybody should, it's one of the battlefields for Cold Wars. Countries with nukes can't fight each other directly, but they can use the world stage for cultural fights. They show off their achievements to intimidate and convince people their way is superior.
This year's Olympics are China's version of the moon landing
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is how the Commander-in-Chief behaves in front of the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ_YhM4OGkU [youtube.com]