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Daylight Saving Change Saved No Power

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later dept.

United States 766

Brett writes "Results from energy companies are coming in, and the word is that moving Daylight Saving Time forward three weeks had no measurable impact on power consumption. The attempt by the US Congress to make it look like they were doing something about the energy crisis has been exposed as the waste it is. But the new DST is probably here to stay — letting the bill expire would mean re-patching a lot of systems again next year. So much for saving energy."

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But...but.. (4, Funny)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594403)

But, the DST change was one of the ONLY things they could agree on!!!!

Quit'cher Bitchin' (3, Insightful)

duerra (684053) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594407)

Look, I understand people that want to take a stab at the administration - Bush's administration has done far more harm than good, but come on - bashing like this summary is just not necessary. This was a widely supported idea beyond just the US - a number of countries followed suit in the idea. At the very least, it didn't HURT anything - so why bitch about it so much? Oh well, you had to patch your systems. It's over and done with. No need to try and make this into a "prime opportunity" to bash the administration for at least trying. There's plenty of other things to gripe about when it comes to this administration - learn to pick your fights, otherwise you just end up looking like a giant douche.... or a turd sandwich.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (2, Insightful)

qwijibo (101731) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594513)

You must work for a small company that takes part in reality if you already did the patching. There was no compelling business justification for patching the systems, so failing to get rid of the change means it remains on the eternal todo list, right next to backups. The joys of administering systems for a large bank.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

Hades- (16878) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594535)

Didn't hurt anyone, huh? I wanted to hurt myself very badly trying to figure out why TZMOVE.EXE and TZMOVE.MSI didn't agree with any of my exchange servers, all while fighting off the EVP's and CEO's wondering why their meetings are out of whack. So yeah, it hurt a lot.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (5, Insightful)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594537)

Actually, it's arguable it did hurt a number of things.

1) A significant amount of manpower had to be expended in order to assure that the computer systems across the world supporting this change were ready for it.

2) A number of home and business computer systems alike failed to change, sometimes resulting in mischeduled meetings and moderate confusion.

3) Congress wasted time on this bill that could have been spent getting something important done, such as finally hammering out a definate government policy on Stem Cell research, abortions, or actually making a true impact on the energy issue we face.

Time and money were wasted, for an energy revenue of nil. It may not have increased energy costs, but costs in general were incurred.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

Kimos (859729) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594771)

But don't worry. It was all worth it since they got to sneak in an hour of sunny evening shopping for three weeks. Who cares about saving energy or lost corporate dollars when you can squeeze out some more of that expendable income from the average suburb resident. Who wants to go shopping in the dark anyway? It's dangerous out there...

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (5, Funny)

Giolon (1006069) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594547)

It didn't hurt anything? My "automatic" clock that I bought a few years ago is now worthless. It's supposed to automatically change based on the old DST schedule. Now, I have to manually turn it ahead myself, then a few weeks later, remember to manually turn it back because it automatically went forward on the old scehdule. Ditto for the fall. It's obnoxious. The government owes me a new automatic clock.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (2, Interesting)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594769)

Same here, remembered about it on the new DST change. But was confused when it suddenly jumped an hour forward this Sunday. An no way to patch the sucker. Strange thing is its "Automatic Time Setting" seems to be some sorta trick. Pull it from the wall, replug, and it "automatically" sets it to the wrong time..

Modded funny? (4, Informative)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594855)

If I had mod points, I'd mod Informative!!

Seriously, this "useful" change was nothing but a waste of time, AND clocks. All those clocks/devices that automatically change according to the standardized time? Useless. Software patches? Quite impossible for most.

Looks like the waste management facilities will see a rise in borked electronics because of this - and that does precisely 0 for the environment, too.

Are you high? (5, Insightful)

ObiWanStevobi (1030352) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594555)

First of all, this is a move by congress, no one is bashing "The Administration"

No harm, no foul, huh? How about the time it took to patch my file transfer program. I'm sure my employers don't appreciate the extra money spent. Not to mention tying up our IT staff trying to get time clocks/etc. fixed when the Windows patch f#$%ed up the time then fixed it again two days later. There's two days of pay for the IT staff, not to mention lost time where other things didn't get fixed.

And it's us who look like giant douches for complaining?!!

Re:Are you high? (2, Insightful)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594805)

And it's us who look like giant douches for complaining?!!

No, you don't look like a giant douche for complaining. I think the original poster was responding more to the tone of the summary which seemed... angry that they even attempted something to conserve energy.

I don't think its a liberal/conservative thing, but I do think its a great example of you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't for the government. Had they not changed DST after it was proposed the environmentalists (or rather those wanting to conserve energy) would be complaining, "The government never does anything to even TRY to conserve power!"

Someone had this idea. It didn't work (surprise, surprise) and now you have people complaining, "I can't believe you even TRIED this?!?"

So I'm very sorry that you had so much additional work to do and your company lost so much money, but if it helps there is probably an environmentalist somewhere who is smiling... or at least frowning less.

/damned if you do damned if you don't.
//can't please all of the people all of the time.

Re:Are you high? (1, Informative)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594917)

Still the administrations fault. He could've vetoed it.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

gr8_phk (621180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594597)

Oh yea, no problem. My coworkers in England have not changed, so for 3 weeks they are 4 hours different instead of 5. I say we just move it 3 months more (or whatever the amount is) so we never have to change our clocks.

On another note, just because power consumption hasn't changed doesn't mean it had no effect. The goal was to reduce power consumed by large corporations. Somehow I doubt if more people coming to work in the dark had that effect either.... OTOH, people driving to work in the dark reduces gas mileage which equals more profit for oil companies - would it be enough of a change for them to measure?

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

adamjaskie (310474) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594817)

I don't really like "spring forward". As far as I am concerned, we should just give up on it, and stick with "fall back". Hell, we could "fall back" a few times a year for all I care.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594617)

the "Congress", not the bushies, you giant douche turd sandwich.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594619)

I beg to differ. The financial industry is reported to have spent over $2.2 billion dollars patching and hardening computer systems to deal with the abnormal DST change. Goodness knows how much has been spent in other industries.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

Possibility (615057) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594647)

it didn't HURT anything
But it DID hurt, or more accurately COST money to develop the patches, distribute the patches, apply the patches, fix the systems that did not get patched and fix data affected by un-patched systems. Congress, or more accurately, the previous Congress could not actually do ANYTHING to reduce energy consumption, (being politically unfeasible for Republicans then,) so they chose this old chestnut to portray themselves as having accomplished something. No, wasted money they did. Lots.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594679)

Fortunately I have an inexhaustible supply of administration bashing so long as they continue to do stupid things. Wide support just means that the administration was able to convince other boneheads that this boneheaded idea was a good idea. Your implication that making fun of the Bushites in this case is a waste of perfectly good ridicule falls flat in the face of the fact that ridicule is free, easy to come up with in their case, and more fun that smiling and nodding at the crazy people.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594685)

Didn't hurt anything? What about all the $$ companies had to spend to recode for the new DST, patch and test systems, problems related to old software and devices that couldn't be patched, etc. I believe the estimates for this cost to businesses was estimated to be in the billions of dollars, not to mention all the wasted time immplementing said patches.

I don't consider all that waste of time and money to be "no harm done".

Whether this was driven by the Bush administration, non-US countries, or whatever, I think anyone with an ounce of sense knew this was going to be one huge waste.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594765)

#1- the summary didn't mention Bush's Administration, only the US Congress.

#2- if you weren't personally affected by having to patch Windows systems in a specific order, then you must be lucky enough not to have an administration that insists on using Microsoft from the Exchange Servers all the way down to cell phones (with Outlook along the way) for meeting scheduling.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

div_2n (525075) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594787)

At the very least, it didn't HURT anything - so why bitch about it so much?

I guess some of us value our time differently than others. Staying late and patching systems because some politician had a stupid idea isn't a way I value spending my time.

We should pick one time and stick with it. Period. Anything else is a worthless exercise in futility that does little besides mess with people's sleep schedules.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (2, Informative)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594919)

The reason is it's yet more proof it's a do nothing Congress. Even when they do something it has no positive effect. Business sees energy reform cutting into their short term bottom line and that's all most care about so don't expect Congress to get off their asses anytime soon. Alot of the changes will save money over time but it'll cut into their short term profits so they are seen as a bad thing. Any time you do anything some one isn't going to like it so Congress has taken the stance of simply doing nothing. They are big on committes and making statements but they rarely take proactive action on anything. We need leadership not smoke and mirrors. They would have accomplished far more by requiring a 5% or 10% increase in gas mileage. The car companies could easily meet those goals and it would save a huge amount of oil. Even that is seen as draconian in the Bush administration.

Re:Quit'cher Bitchin' (1)

Dr. Zowie (109983) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594933)

No need to try and make this into a "prime opportunity" to bash the administration for at least trying.


The thing is, this was done before by the Carter administration, and it didn't work then either. Stupidity is doing the same thing and thinking something different will happen.

The current administration doesn't need a lot of help finding reasons to be bashed. This one is pretty third-rate, compared to the meltdown that is currently happening after a mere 107 days of true congressional oversight. But it's a good example of the administration's modus operandi. Either the stated reasons for the policy were lies, or the administration are pretty damned incompetent. Take your pick, just don't admit to having voted for them.

Dude, I'm coming to lyrictalk.net (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594953)

I'm coming to your site, and I'm going to jump into every conversation, not matter if it's related or not, and I'm going to complain that people are bashing the current administration, even if they're not, no matter who the current administration is. That should be fun, eh?

Who needs to save power... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594409)

...when you get a frosty!

Shocked (3, Funny)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594417)

I thought feel-good legislation always worked. :-/

Extra sunshine isn't such a good thing. (2, Funny)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594741)

I'm not suprised. DST is a very bad idea. All that extra sunshine makes it hotter. This burns the lawn and means you need more air conditioning.

On the flip side though, all the exta sunshine makes crops grow better so it should make farmers happier!

Re:Shocked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594915)

What's the point of even having a clock change anymore? As of this year, we only have what - three or perhaps four months of standard time and the rest of the year is daylight saving time?

Frankly, I'd rather have it in reverse. I like it when there is more light in the morning and I like it to be dark earlier at night. There's just something nice about it getting dark at 5pm or so. But I guess we're not going to get that for the same reason that people love to sit out and bake in the sun.

I like the extra daylight though (0, Troll)

MontyApollo (849862) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594421)

As many have said, I like the extra daylight. It would be nice if it saves energy, but the extra daylight is more important to me.

Amen (1)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594531)

I'm always counting the days til DST comes back. Later daylight makes me happy! Sure, some schoolkids have to wait for the bus in the dark - but I had to do that anyhow when I was younger, even when it wasn't DST! I wish we could have it this way all year long - winter is when we need it *worst*, with the sun setting by 4:30 in many places.

Re:I like the extra daylight though (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594591)

Yeah, it seems like each day since DST has been a minute or two longer than the day before. It's amazing how they can force the sun to stay up a bit longer just by messing with everybody's clock.

Re:I like the extra daylight though (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594663)

As many have said, I like the extra daylight.


The time change did not affect the amount of daylight, or the number of hours over which that daylight was distributed.

It may have affected hour your work schedule corresponded to the daylight hours, but that's a completely different thing.

Re:I like the extra daylight though (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594935)

The time change did not affect the amount of daylight, or the number of hours over which that daylight was distributed.

Apparently, it all had no effect on the level of pedantism present on /. But that's hardly surprising, now is it?

Re:I like the extra daylight though (1)

slashrogue (775436) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594721)

I can smell the sarcasm off this post, so it makes me wonder what the mods are doing with +Interesting.

Re:I like the extra daylight though (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594813)

You know, there isn't really any increase in the total daylight per day. But if the change in schedule works for you anyway, that's great. I find such forced change annoying and patronizing.

Actually, I think the problem is numerically bigger than what the 1-hour change tries to correct. It's more like 4 hours, considering a night's sleep from midnight to 8 am. So to maximize daylight during waking hours, you'd have to change the physical midnight to be about 4 am. Wouldn't that be great?

What I'm trying to say is that most humans have a very asymmetric schedule compared to physical hours of light and dark. If you try to force people out of the asymmetry, they will eventually drift back into a new kind of asymmetry. I also like it when the time on a clock bears some vague resemblance to physical events like midnight.

Re:I like the extra daylight though (1)

Cornish (453293) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594843)

The two extra minutes of daylight you had on March 11th were due to the Earth's orbit around the sun, not because Congress monkeyed with Daylight Saving Time.

Definitely Agree (1)

sirket (60694) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594851)

Short days that get dark early are depressing. The early change made a big difference for me and I could not care less if it did not save any power.

-sirket

I don't. (4, Funny)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594867)

In fact, I fucking hate it. The sun is trying to kill me, and giving it any more opportunities to do that doesn't make me any happier.

Damn straight.. (1)

Omega (1602) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594905)

It's like getting an extra hour in my evening. Especially when the weather warms up and it's nice outside. I can do more after work thanks to the longer daylight.

Plus, I'll be interested to see if the claim of fewer children getting hit by cars in Halloweeen holds up -- now that DST ends after Halloween and not before.

Re:I like the extra daylight though (2, Interesting)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594929)

This is why Arizona doesn't participate in this stupidity.

Extra daylight in the FRIGGING DESERT is NOT helpful. People don't come out until after 7pm even in normal time. Want the cafes and outdoor busineses to stay closed until 1030pm, or do you want them to waste more water with those evaporative coolers (garden misters) trying to keep the locals from passing out outdoors? Until nightfall they're all sucking every last watt out of their homes barricaded inside on air-conditioned life-support! Cool evenings save energy. The sooner it arrives the better, and less energy and water is used as a result. And don't get me started on heat islands!

It's not 59-90f degrees everywhere in the USA ya know.

Don't foget about October.... (for the children) (1)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594423)

Remember that this also moved DST changes back after October 31st. So the candy companies love this and it is "safer for the children", even if it does nothing for energy usage. It will stay most likely.

Re:Don't foget about October.... (for the children (1)

GryMor (88799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594479)

If they aren't going to abolish DST all together, it better bloody well stay, I don't want to do a panic dance to deploy yet another set of (more complicated), Time Zone rules, and still get screwed by embeded devices and propriatery systems that just can't handle it.

Re:Don't foget about October.... (for the children (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594737)

I don't understand that. Who trick or treats in the daylight? We always waited till it was dark to go out, and we liked it that way.

Fine by me... (4, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594429)

Reuters spoke with Jason Cuevas, spokesman for Southern Co. power, who said it plainly: "We haven't seen any measurable impact."

While I had no doubts in my mind that this wouldn't save a dime, I'm still pleased with the fact that because I work 9:30 to 6pm I see daylight on my drive home three weeks earlier than usual. For me, I'd prefer it's this way all year long but I don't have kids that ride a school bus (isn't that the main reason they claim we do this in the first place?)

Re:Fine by me... (1, Informative)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594731)

For me, I'd prefer it's this way all year long but I don't have kids that ride a school bus (isn't that the main reason they claim we do this in the first place?)


The reason we do it is that people are more likely to shop if they get off work and it is still light out, and thus it is a way to subsidize retail and related industries (the theoretical energy savings are based on the assumption that businesses won't change their schedule and will consume constant power, but the people staying out shopping won't go home and turn on their home appliances.)

Re:Fine by me... (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594955)

Personally I'm less likely to shop when it is light out. I'd rather be outside than in a store. I do most of my shopping after sundown if I can.

Re:Fine by me... (1)

jerkyjunkmail (590408) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594785)

I agree. I like the increase of daylight hours after work.

I've heard that same line before as well. I say what about the after school activities type kid though. The way it was everyone gets out of school and it's fully light out. I used to play basketball in grade school. By the time practice was out it was really dark. So you have a lone young kid walking home alone in the dark instead the masses that would get let out when it's starting to get dark. I would think there would be better safety in numbers rather than the single kid that would in theory be easier prey. I say what about the lone kids doesn't anyone care about them and their safety.

same old story... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594441)

Some group of advisors profess their absolute expertise on something, the goverment makes the change and hey, what do you know it didnt change a thing....

bummer. (1)

hypethetica (739528) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594445)

I actually liked the experiment of this. For my house in particular, there was no energy savings because I'd already switched most of my lights out for CFLs. (most of the savings was supposed to come from lighting) Perhaps there were no savings because everyone else has switched to CFLs too? tee hee.

Re:bummer. (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594701)

I actually liked the experiment of this. For my house in particular, there was no energy savings because I'd already switched most of my lights out for CFLs. (most of the savings was supposed to come from lighting) Perhaps there were no savings because everyone else has switched to CFLs too? tee hee.

Did you factor in the social costs of spectrum induced insanity? The glare... the GLARE! why won't it stop?!?

alternatively... (5, Insightful)

boarder (41071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594451)

... we can just get rid of DST altogether, since it has been shown to not do dick except annoy people and cost companies money in IT time.

Keep it summer time year round if you ask me.

Re:alternatively... (1)

marcog123 (969158) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594605)

Come to South Africa...no daylight saving nonsense at all!

Re:alternatively... (1, Insightful)

Darlantan (130471) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594691)

Damn straight. DST is one of the dumbest things I've ever encountered. It's shocking how many people think that there's an hour of extra light automagically generated by a time change.

Personally, I'm setting all my clocks to GMT.

Re:alternatively... (1)

mandelbr0t (1015855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594753)

Maybe you should live somewhere where there is less than 6 hours of daylight during the shortest day of the year and see if you still have the same view. And don't forget that the sun won't set until after midnight during the summer. Hopefully you don't have to work too early the next day.

Yeah, about that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594461)

"The attempt by the US Congress to make it look like they were doing something about the energy crisis has been exposed as the waste it is"

If...if...only we'd listened to you kdawson, if only we'd listened!

Re:Yeah, about that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594643)

D'oh!

Replace kdawson with Brett.

Not surprising (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594465)

Any "daylight saving" time is a waste of time and energy. It may have been a good idea back in Ben Franklin's day when people used candles and oil lamps, but now people leave the lights and electronics on whether it's day or night.

Personally, I'd MUCH prefer to just leave it on real time and forget this nonsense altogether. Can you imagine, never having to change your clock except when you move? But I guess that makes too much sense.

Re:Not surprising (1)

qwijibo (101731) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594585)

We should take it one step further and use UTC for everything. That would make it easier to figure out when international conference calls are happening and you wouldn't have to change your watch when you move.

Re:Not surprising (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594803)

Yeah, I've thought of that before. I'd like that even better. But I'll just settle for sticking with the same time year-round.

This is significant... why? (1)

superbus1929 (1069292) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594491)

The ONLY people that care about DST from a work standpoint are us IT people, because of all the shit we had to go to re-patch our systems. Other than that, this is insignificant. Moving DST was insignificant in itself; I call it "Freedom Fries Legislation"

keep "new" DST, abolish Congress? (1)

swschrad (312009) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594493)

oh, wait, that's been tried before. didn't work then, either.

Who cares about energy savings (1)

MarcoAtWork (28889) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594501)

three more weeks with enough sunlight after work to actually do something (run, bike, ...) is all that matters... heck, if they made DST 2 hours long and all year round it'd be awesome, rather than being dark at 4:30 in the winter at least it'd stay bright until 6:30, who cares if the sun comes up at 8am or 10am, daylight after work is a lot more important...

Re:Who cares about energy savings (2, Insightful)

sh00z (206503) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594845)

or, alternatively: three more weeks with LESS sunlight BEFORE work actually do something (run, bike, ...) is all that matters. And I've been robbed. Who cares if it's sunny after work? Daylight when I wake up is a lot more important.

Re:Who cares about energy savings (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594863)

Problem is if you just left it on DST time.... Eventually everybodies schedules would shift from 8-5 to 9-6 or whatever.. You can only trick people for so long.. Sure we should just abolish DST and change work hours to 7-4.. But people don't grasp concepts like that well.

Selfish Bastard (3, Insightful)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594921)

Not for those of us who have visual overstimulation induced migraines. This just means that they've stolen several hours of my precious DARKNESS in return for no monetary advantage.

Never mind lost productivity... (5, Informative)

CrazyTalk (662055) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594507)

Just two quick examples of the COST of the change, due to lost productivity - I live in the Eastern US, and someone in Ireland missed a conference call with us because everyone on both sides of the Atlantic thought that Ireland was always 5 hours ahead (for some reason, people found it impossible to fathom that this wasnt the case if we changes our clock and they didn't, but whatever). Example number two - a contractor in brazil was going to take down our servers at 5:00 EDST but actually took them down at 4:00 since they didnt know about the time change.

I wish they change this stuff more often (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594509)

$200/hr * 20 * 8 clients = enough cha ching to enjoy this crap.

Purpose of Government (5, Insightful)

Alaren (682568) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594519)

Remember, we don't elect representatives to actually fix things. We elect them to "Do Something(tm)."

Actually fixing problems requires understanding those problems. For that matter, it requires some agreement on what actually constitutes a problem (as opposed to what will appease the masses, or what will attract the most press). When your enfranchised populace is largely well-fed, entertained, and more or less free to do as they please, you don't address real problems, you invent illusory ones. Because fixing the real problems would threaten the the status quo.

The U.S. is in the grip of statism: we're too quick to say "there ought to be a law!" Our leaders oblige, usually without worrying about the consequences.

There were DST in Iraq? (1)

athloi (1075845) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594523)

And they didn't save any energy? I sure am glad we invaded then, to punish that awful Hussein guy for having DSTs, supporting terrorism, and offending fashion senses worldwide.

Fuel Usage (4, Interesting)

duplicate-nickname (87112) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594565)

I remember a local news story the week of the 11th stating that there was actually an increase in gas use after the DST change because people were driving more now that it stay light out later.

the DST change might still be good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594577)

i mean, i never even heard the power saving rationale. I had heard that the new system was better for sunlight purposes. As far as i heard, it simply meant that DST would happen earlier in the spring and later in the fall. WHich means that we get "more" hours of daylight at an earlier date each spring when the clocks get set ahead. And in the Fall, we "lose" an hour of daylight but this happens later in the winter than normal.

which is a good thing in my book.

Thanks Democratic lead congress (-1, Troll)

SengirV (203400) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594593)

I see that your campaign promise to do something about the price of gas is really kicking in now.

What? The price of gas has gone up since the Dems were elected and appears to be headed towards $3.00 a gallon by summertime?

Nevermind. Don't look at the empty promises here, move along.

Re:Thanks Democratic lead congress (1)

faloi (738831) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594713)

I see that your campaign promise to do something about the price of gas is really kicking in now.

They ARE doing something. Those gas prices won't increase themselves, you know!

This just in (0)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594609)

I've been able to ride home from work with the top down in my convertable the last few weeks.

Who fucking cares about energy savings or not, and quit trying to repackage every fucking story as "BUSH SUCKS", please.

Also, there isn't enough data to conclude that it's had "no impact" yet.

Al Gore wants me to unplug my xbox when I'm not using it, so it wont use power in standby mode and "every bit helps" - but nobody calls bullshit on that sort of idiocy. If the 0.05 watts my xbox uses when it's off is "helping", then so is this.

In other news (5, Funny)

ccbutler (840014) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594613)

Water utilities claim there was no measureable impact to water consumption after their "hold your pee in for an hour before going to the bathroom" campaign wrapped up last weekend, in an effort to minimize water consumption and save the planet of resources. =P

Extra daylight == $ for businesses (1)

wiz31337 (154231) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594621)

I didn't really buy the energy savings part of it from the start.

The only thing I can think of is that the DST change is good for businesses because it makes it lighter longer three weeks earlier. I don't know if this is true or not but this may make people more inclined to go run an errand right after work rather than going straight home and waiting until the weekend.

Just a thought.

Re:Here's the proof (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594881)

More effort and labor spent (2, Funny)

HungWeiLo (250320) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594627)

When I had to switch my clock back on Ubuntu (the timezone fix did not make it in the apt-get updates somehow), my makefile on my hour-long build project refused to build (citing misalignment of the timestamps of the files). So I had to delete all my files and fetch them all again after I put the clock back to the way it was before.

After that, I turned on my amp and surround sound system and watched a movie during lunch while blasting away the AC because I got so hot from all the work.

It would mean REMOVING patches... (3, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594629)

...and I'm all for it!

This DST2007 thing has been a real pain in my ass. I know that the US government hates to admit failure, so we won't leave Iraq and we won't back off on DST2007... wish we would though. It has caused a lot of problems.

Please explain DST (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594649)

I have not yet understand the theory behind DST, ie. what is _supposed_ to be the actual benefit.

Re:Please explain DST (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594811)

Re:Please explain DST (1)

sh00z (206503) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594931)

It benefits the chamber of commerce. [go.com] More daylight after normal 9-5 working hours means more people will go out shopping. The last time this was tried (in 1986 or so), the golf industry made an extra $200 million in income.

We all knew that wasn't the reason anyway... (0, Troll)

mandelbr0t (1015855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594669)

I never bought the "energy saving" crap anyway. Compared to what they were spending on the Iraq war, the figures they presented were pathetically low, especially given the effort to change it. All I had to do was look at all of the hardware clocks at home to realize what the real reason was: electronic warfare. Anyone that didn't pony up large chunks of change to the DST consultants had to deal with the embarassment (at a minimum) of having their clocks be out-of-whack for 3 full weeks. I'd imagine that most of the DST consultants were American, too. Let's add up all the consulting bills to fix this articificial problem to find out what the real economic driver was.

I despise the bastards who came up with this foolish idea. I wish that people were intelligent enough to realize that their government has once again lied to them about their motives. They should be demanding results for such an expensive implementation, and there is a conspicuous lack thereof. I, for one, can see through this transparent American malevolence. I only wish Canada would declare war so I could do something about it.

Re:We all knew that wasn't the reason anyway... (1)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594969)

I only wish Canada would declare war so I could do something about it.

Ya, and throwing pancakes and syrup across your borders will do what exactly?
Now excuse me while I go roll with laughter at the idea of the invasion of the flappy heads.

split the difference (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594671)

i wish the "spring forward" and "fall back" thing would stop! i wish the world would just split the difference and leave the clocks alone! next fall move the clocks back 30 minutes and never move them forward or back again, this daylight savings time does not do anything beneficial...

Another Central Planning success story!!! (1)

BarnabyWilde (948425) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594681)

Whoopeee! That's what you get with central planning.

No surprise it was a flop. Duh.

Can't wait for scoialized medicine!!!!

Re:Another Central Planning success story!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18594779)

Can't wait for scoialized medicine!!!!

I didn't know Darl was a doctor.

er (1)

Jethro (14165) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594707)

Wow, that was unbiased.

The new DST helped me out a lot. I like it when it's lighter out later, earlier in the year. I vote we stay on this time all year round. Switching around at all is dumb.

Good logic (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594711)

But the new DST is probably here to stay -- letting the bill expire would mean re-patching a lot of systems again next year.

Because whether or not systems need to be re-patched is the primary concern of lawmakers. I can see the debate now:

Senator 1: "Let's just let the bill expire. Or we can fillibuster it if you fillibuster our 'Feed the Homeless' bill."

Senator 2: "Are you insane, man? Just think of all the system patches necessary to get things back the way they were. I'll not be part of any such scandal! I'll still fillibuster your Feed the Homeless bill though, but only because of the rider that provides free health care for anyone who can't otherwise afford it."

It's also been unseasonably warm (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594723)

ACs are running that werent last year.

You cant extrapolate "it doesnt help" from one months worth of data. I dont see how you can get any meaningful conclusions from it.

Unless you have an agenda, in which case you'll find support for it in an old can of Chef Boyardee.

Re:It's also been unseasonably warm (4, Insightful)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594799)

You cant extrapolate "it doesnt help" from one months worth of data.


You can with a change in DST that is supposed to save energy on both ends, and only affects one month on each end.

For other things, maybe not.

Re:It's also been unseasonably warm (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594869)

Give it a few years and then you can start computing averages.

We only have one data element right now. Can you prove that it isn't an anomaly? Can you prove to me that the power we saved wasnt offset by the power used to deal with an unseasonably warm spring?

Talk to me in 10 years or so.

there are other benifits to the new DST change... (1)

vingilot (218702) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594781)

like having more sun in the evening to exercise outside after work. Normally its still dark. I like the change.

Re:there are other benifits to the new DST change. (3, Funny)

Mr. No Skills (591753) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594895)

"exercise outside"

Wrong web site...

We're struggling with sun glare on the screen while firing up Counter Strike...

Oh Well (1)

TheFlyingGoat (161967) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594809)

Nobody was 100% sure if it would save energy or not, so it was a good idea to try it and find out. At least we know now and nobody should push to adjust it again in the future. Sure, it may have caused some IT workers to spend some extra time on the job, but the hourly ones should appreciate that and perhaps the salaried ones got a little bonus or pat on the back. Other than that, it's really no harm done.

It's nice to see the government try something in an effort to help solve energy issues. Hopefully they'll continue that without all the bipartisan bickering (yeah right).

Fun Time had by all (1)

tim620 (1052986) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594837)

I'm glad the government waisted my time. I got to spend more time at work prior to March 17 applying patches on servers, etc. Thank you, US government, I was so bored at work with nothing else to do prior to the new DST and to hear that is was a waste, really makes me feel good, especially about you. :-)

This is not news (1)

BlindRobin (768267) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594873)

It has been known for decades that gasoline consumption, in particular increases, with DST, and that commerce in general benefits from DST. The energy savings argument has always been, when considered across the entire spectrum of energy consumption, quite obviously spurious.

Saved no power THIS year... (1)

Bobfrankly1 (1043848) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594875)

I work for a K-12 school district in California and this year, we probably used MORE energy turning on all the computers early to patch them before the staff came in. If there are ANY benefits to be seen, it's highly unlikely to see them in the first year of a transition. Lets see how things turn out next year...eh, who am I fooling :P

Power Savings Activated........disabling spel check
c:/>_

Carbon-offset (3, Funny)

rodney dill (631059) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594889)

I used my saved energy as a carbon offset to burn additional energy.

We spent more electicity (1)

DogcowX (888899) | more than 7 years ago | (#18594939)

keeping everyone around on the weekends and evenings to fix all the 2007 DST issues.
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