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Daylight Savings Change Proposed

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the time-to-patch-some-code dept.

United States 1392

AveryRegier writes "CNN is reporting that Congress has added an amendment to the Energy Bill to extend daylight-savings time by two months. They expect to "save the equivalent of 10,000 barrels of oil a day." How long it would take for the associated energy savings to overcome the cost to make, test, and deploy the necessary code changes? How would the cost of this change compare with Y2K? Does most date routines' reliance on GMT make this just an issue of presenting the right time to the user?"

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Creating a Boom? (5, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167403)

How would the cost of this change compare with Y2K?

It has been speculated, and fairly so IMHO, that Y2K was what initially drove the .com bubble. While I certainly wouldn't discount releases of many previously classified technologies and growth of the internet, there was a consider amount of capital put into hardware and software upgrades in the mid-to-late nineties.

Imagine what kind of capital would be required to change DST behavior on govt computers alone. We could probably convert CO2 and H2O back into hydrocarbons cheaper.

CSC, Accenture, EDS, et al are probably salivating at the thought of such a passage of law.

Re:Creating a Boom? (4, Interesting)

lgw (121541) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167569)

Y2K drove the dot com bubble indirectly: the Fed loosened the money supply when it would ordinarily have been tightening, in order to give companies easy access to capital in case Y2K became a crisis. When Y2K passed uneventfully, the easy acces to capital became a different sort of crisis. IMO it was a risk worth taking, as the dot com bubble only destroyed my bank account, but Y2K seemed poised to destroy my ability to bank.

Why not go to DST permanently? (5, Insightful)

sachmet (10423) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167409)

Here's a PDF of the amendment [house.gov] , as agreed, from the house.gov page on the session yesterday [house.gov] . Realistically, if it'll make that big of an impact, why not make Daylight Savings Time a year-round proposal? If this amendment is passed by the House, we will have a period of a little over 3 months annually (Dec, Jan, Feb) in which DST is not in effect. That seems ridiculous. Not to mention that if DST becomes year-round, the change in software becomes a static offset to GMT as opposed to figuring out when the annual switch days are. Even Windows allows you to set a time zone that ignores DST, so a company in permanent CDT would only need set their time zone to EST and not worry about changing the clocks again.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (5, Interesting)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167454)

actually that happened during WWII - it was called 'war time' and lasted for the duration, from 3 Feb 1942 to 30 Sep 1945

Why not just move timezones then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167461)

Seems like a kludge to use DST when you could just shift timezones where appropriate.

Re:Why not just move timezones then? (1)

Brento (26177) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167536)

Seems like a kludge to use DST when you could just shift timezones where appropriate.

Try changing timezones on all of the desktop computers in your company, and it ain't as easy as it looks. Let alone in a national company with offices in a few timezones, roaming users on laptops, network devices at various switching facilities, etc. There is no "just shift timezones" twice a year.

Re:Why not just move timezones then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167572)

And moving to permanent DST will be automatic? I was replying to the parent's post about moving to permanent DST, not about changing time twice a year. I believe if you think permanent DST is a good idea, you should just change timezones.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (5, Insightful)

atteSmythe (874236) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167495)

I've long felt that this should be the case. The modern workday favors it. Honestly, who cares if it's a bit darker when you go to work. When you go home, wouldn't it be nice to have it be light outside?

There's so much talk about SAD (seasonal attitude disorder, or whatever they're calling it these days), and all of America seems to be on antidepressants. How much of that would be eliminated if people could drive home in the daylight?

Especially this year, since the changeover, the change in my mood has been dramatic, and I even find myself unintentionally working a little later just because it's still so bright outside. I can't see how permanent DST could possibly be a bad thing.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167577)

hell yeah, I know when I drive home in the dark I'm ready to go to sleep. Fuck mowing the lawn and shit. Nothing ever gets done on those days.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (3, Insightful)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167519)

we will have a period of a little over 3 months annually (Dec, Jan, Feb) in which DST is not in effect. That seems ridiculous.

Because then you'd have kids going to school in the dark. As soon as one is hit by a car that's the end of that.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (5, Funny)

That's Unpossible! (722232) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167545)

Absolutely -- rest assured. Kids are now safe.

For 3 months.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (5, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167520)

why not make Daylight Savings Time a year-round proposal?

Because where I live, on December 21, the sun rises at 7:55 AM CDT. This means that it's almost daylight when I drive to work. Ain't no way I'm going to go along with changing that to 8:55 AM.

Remember, you're not lengthening the day - you're taking time from the morning and adding it to the evening.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (5, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167554)

This is how Governments add to anything! :-)

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (1)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167560)

You're not taking time, you're taking daylight hours and moving them forward.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (3, Insightful)

rjune (123157) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167524)

Permanent DST was considered in the 1980's during the oil crisis. The problem is that some children would be walking to school in the dark in the winter months. I don't remember if some were actually hit by cars or not, but it was this concern that killed the idea.

Re:Why not go to DST permanently? (2, Interesting)

stinerman (812158) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167578)

Farmers.

Farmers hold a decent bit of lobbying power, moreso than one would expect by chance. They complain about DST one way or another. Most farmers like DST so they don't need to get up so early in order to get chores done. My grandfather didn't really care; he just got up when it was light out, regardless of time.

Indiana still doesn't do DST (due to the farm lobby), but, IIRC, they're trying to work it through their legislature. Whenever I go to my mom's in the summer I always laugh at them because the sun rises around 5 a.m. in June / July.

Suckers! I'm in Arizona! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167414)

No DST this state (except for some Indian reservations). I suggest you all adopt our time now.

Re:Suckers! I'm in Arizona! (1)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167580)

And that's what REALLY pissed me off when I worked for a company in Boston that got bought by a company in Arizona! ;-) We'd just get used to the fact that a meeting scheduled for 12:00 our time meant 9:00 their time and then suddenly 12:00 our time became 10:00 their time...

I'd be very happy doing away with DST altogether!

How does the US differ from EU ? (5, Interesting)

foobsr (693224) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167416)

There is (should be) a study dated 1998 (which I was not able to locate yet) sponsored by the EU Commission which states that daylight saving time does not have the desired effect on energy consumption (which is taken as a common fact anyway here (de)). I wonder why the US should differ - anyone any idea?

CC.

Re:How does the US differ from EU ? (4, Insightful)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167463)

Because our politicans are dumber than yours :-)
-nB

Re:How does the US differ from EU ? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167486)

Because we are the US and we can change time if we want to. We could make time run backwards if we so desired.

Re:How does the US differ from EU ? (0, Flamebait)

barzok (26681) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167510)

Because the US didn't commission/write the study, of course!

Any sane, logical-thinking person would agree that the study should probably be, for the most part, applicable to the US as well as the EU, but this is Congress proposing this, so all bets are off.

Re:How does the US differ from EU ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167535)

Because in the US citizens who owns businesses have to pay for energy costs, instead of relying on the government.

Re:How does the US differ from EU ? (2, Informative)

paranode (671698) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167558)

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? [webexhibits.org]

While European nations have been taking advantage of the time change for decades, in 1996 the European Union (EU) standardized an EU-wide "summertime period." The EU version of Daylight Saving Time runs from the last Sunday in March through the last Sunday in October. During the summer, Russia's clocks are two hours ahead of standard time. For example, Moscow standard time (UTC+3) is about a half-hour ahead of local mean time (UTC+2:30); this is about the same situation as Detroit, whose standard time (UTC-5) is also about a half-hour ahead of local mean time (UTC-5:32). During the winter, all 11 of the Russian time zones remain an hour ahead of standard time. With their high latitude, the two hours of Daylight Saving Time really helps to save daylight. In the Southern Hemisphere where summer comes in December, Daylight Saving Time is observed from October to March. (The clock at above right is viewed from within the Musée d'Orsay in Paris.)

Wrong Target (1)

supercoop (871775) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167418)

Don't worry too much about changing code to accommodate the changes as we have already showed that y2k was handled well enough. Plus it gives developers a chance to code things a little better to handle changes and no matter what it cost it isn't being paid in oil but in IT dollars that is good for my line of work.

The more daylight we have, the less electricity we use

Now if you really want to target Oil than look at the biggest percentage of usage. Change the wording to "The more companies adopt telecommuting the less gasoline we use". It's like looking at the national debt and cutting the smallest percentage item (IE NASA) and acting like that is going to help. If you want to make an impact on the something then target the highest percentage of the problem (like it or not Social Security).

Re:Wrong Target (2, Insightful)

MrAnnoyanceToYou (654053) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167452)

Err... Highest percentage of the problem is the military, not Social Security.... The military has a retirement program on top of just social security. Stop listening to the republican on your television please.

Re:Wrong Target (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167507)

Either way it isn't NASA.
I think that social security does need an overhaul.
That the military could use one as well is just fine with me.
-nB

Re:Wrong Target (1)

supercoop (871775) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167586)

Highest percentage of the problem is the military, not Social Security

Doesn't really change anything I said. If the military is the highest percentage than that is the target that will have the highest effect on the debt. Also note that NASA isn't really the smallest government program either.

Targeting smallest percentage problems will not solve the bigger problem. The goal is to recognize what the highest percentage and start there.

Re:Wrong Target (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167509)

Greenspan reported that only 11% percent of OIL is used for gasoline in the US. So while telecommuting could reduce this to 9%? that still leaves a lot of room elsewhere to conserve.

Re:Wrong Target (1)

drewzhrodague (606182) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167534)

Good point. Also think of the billions of dollars saved in depression treatment, highway accidents, and other benefits of telecommuting. Imagine if you will, the absolute best way to force a City to clog it's streets, and kill a percentage of the population -- rush hour traffic.

I had a contract outside of Pittsburgh for a while. The commute was 13 miles away. This took me FIFTY MINUTES to get through to be there by 8:AM. Contrast this with my current contract, thirty miles away in the other direction -- takes me 25 minutes at 9:AM, and I have to drive through the City. Go figure.

Of course, I use more gas, but I retain more sanity.

No problem (4, Informative)

waynegoode (758645) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167422)

This would not be anything like Y2K. The code to change the time for Daylight Savings Time is already there. This is just a change in the data. Plus, it is generally only the OS that needs to be changed. The only real problem would be embedded electronics.

Living on the eastern edge of a time zone, I would love for DST to be extended.

No... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167501)

There's a lot of code out there that calculates dates and times that takes DST into account. It's not all based on what the OS is doing because you're not always calculating your local time. If I have code that figures out how many hours away a date is from now in a different timezone, my timezone's rules aren't what's important.

Embedded Systems (2, Informative)

bsd4me (759597) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167557)

In every embedded system I have worked on, we always dealt with time in UTC or ticks from a predefined epoch. Presenting local time to a human was always up to the system communicating with the embedded system, as was converting time to UTC or ticks for sending to the embedded system.

I could be wrong... (5, Informative)

DaHat (247651) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167426)

But isn't it "Daylight Saving Time" and not "Daylight Savings Time"? (ie no s)

Re:I could be wrong... (5, Funny)

Alien Being (18488) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167527)

The extra 's' is for extra "savings".

Adjust the time so that it really saves daylight (5, Funny)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167432)


The problem with standard time in the summer is that the sun rises before anybody is up (like 4 AM) and some daylight in the morning is just wasted. Daylight savings time moves dawn back to 5 AM and gives you an extra hour of daylight in the evening.

You probably see where I'm going with this: who in their right mind is actually awake at 5 AM to enjoy the daylight?????

Daylight savings time should move the day another five hours or so. Imagine if the sun were just coming up as I started thinking about getting out of bed by 10. At 11 or so it would have fully roused me and I could get up and enjoy the full day. At 2 or 3 in the morning the sun would be setting just as I was starting to grow weary of my hacking and start thinking about going to bed. I -- along with most other similarly minded geeks -- would be ever so much more productive.

Of course some of you might complain about the extra screen glare, claim that you don't get any natural light in your basement anyway, or state that you just plain dislike that burning yellow eye in the sky.

--
Rate Exchange Calculator and Currency Convertor [ostermiller.org]

Re:Adjust the time so that it really saves dayligh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167531)

I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you don't have kids...

Re:Adjust the time so that it really saves dayligh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167546)

But you don't have windows in your basement, so what does it matter?

I prefer to call it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167433)

Nightdark Wasting Time.

how about just.... (5, Insightful)

supernova87a (532540) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167434)

why doesn't congress stop tapdancing around the real issue, and instead pass some well-thought out legislation to reduce wasteful energy use, implement a rational gasoline use tax, and other things that would actually address the real problem? Hm?

Re:how about just.... (1)

Ricdude (4163) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167473)

Big Oil Lobby.

Nice thought, though.

Re:how about just.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167538)

gasoline tax? have you seen the price of gas recently? I know as a slashdot reader, theres a good percentage you run an electric/hydrogen car based on linux, but the average person uses good old gasoline. And its expensive. There would be riots if someone even thought of enacting a gasoline tax. period.

Re:how about just.... (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167552)

We really should just stop dancing around and stop the rotation of the earth! Unending daylight(provided we don't fuck it up)

Re:how about just.... (3, Insightful)

tjic (530860) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167589)

why doesn't congress ... pass some ... legislation to reduce wasteful energy use, implement a rational gasoline use tax, and other things that would actually address the real problem?

Perhaps because under Article I, section 8, the people have not delegated to Congress the power to do any of those things.

Hi, and welcome to the United States. (1)

MrDomino (799876) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167590)

You must be new here.

Oil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167436)

Sad how much control oil has.

United States of Oil Addicts. Not trolling, speaking truth.

Quick Question (-1, Troll)

Jeff Hornby (211519) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167438)

Just a quick qeustion:

Since Daylight Savings Time is an internatinoal phenomenon, how is the U.S. congress going to make the decision binding on the rest of the world? (Short of invading every other country which I don't think even George W. Bush would condone, unless giving himk the excuse to invade other contries is the purpose of this law in the first place)

Re:Quick Question (1)

ChiefArcher (1753) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167494)

Everyone changes at different times as it is... some countries don't change time at all..
so it's really not a world decision.

ChiefArcher

Re:Quick Question (2, Informative)

Ruprecht the Monkeyb (680597) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167579)

Not even all parts of the United States follow it uniformly. From webexhibits.org:
" is NOT observed in Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, most of the Eastern Time Zone portion of the State of Indiana, and the state of Arizona (not the Navajo Indian Reservation, which does observe). Navajo Nation participates in the Daylight Saving Time policy, due to its large size and location in three states."

Ooh. I think you're a terrorist. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167540)

Enemy combatant at the very least.

Your either with us or against us. Your question indicates that you are definitely against us.

Re:Ooh. I think you're a terrorist. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167583)

And you posted anonymously, and we all know only terrorists want to protect their privacy. Oh, wait...

I'll take the daylight (5, Informative)

vmcto (833771) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167440)

I don't have the information necessary to make an observation regarding the net energy savings if any exists, but as a resident of Pennsylvania which runs from Lattitude 39 43' N to 42 N I would sure welcome the extra daylight.

I gotta say that driving to work in the dark and driving home from work in the dark is not a prticularly gratifying experience. In fact it's downright depressing.

Interestingly enough the times have been changed in the fairly recent past (according to the US Army [army.mil] :

During the "energy crisis" years, Congress enacted earlier starting dates for daylight time. In 1974, daylight time began on 6 January and in 1975 it began on 23 February. After those two years the starting date reverted back to the last Sunday in April. In 1986, a law was passed permanently shifting the starting date of daylight time to the first Sunday in April, beginning in 1987. The ending date of daylight time has not been subject to such changes, and has remained the last Sunday in October.

Lazy, lazy, lazy... (1)

sonofagunn (659927) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167563)

You could just wake the F up earlier.

Good for jobless programmers (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167441)

This will be programmer's bread and butter. Go ahead congress!

Code Changes? (1)

baldass_newbie (136609) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167445)

How long it would take for the associated energy savings to overcome the cost to make, test, and deploy the necessary code changes?

AFAIK, most folks use the system time which means that only OS folks would have to worry about this. Besides, when would creating more work for IT folks be a bad thing?
Is /. groupthink so blind as to think that making money is evil especially when it pertains to them?
*sheesh*

You really don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167539)

It's not just an OS thing. A LOT of other programs take DST into account for other timezones. And it's creating more work, but it won't be creating more jobs. We'll just be given the task to "fix it" in addition to everything else we have to do.

Oh no, not again (2, Funny)

youngerpants (255314) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167448)

Does anybody know any FORTRAN or COBOL hackers for some contract work?

That would suck (1)

TykeClone (668449) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167453)

To lose that hour permanently - yuck.

Re:That would suck (1)

Tebriel (192168) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167543)

You're not losing an hour. At all. You may think you are, but it's not like your life is now shortened by one hour's worth of time.

Why not just eliminate DST (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167455)

Why not just eliminate the pain, the confusion and drowsiness.

Re:Why not just eliminate DST (2, Interesting)

raygundan (16760) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167541)

Yeah, no kidding. Here in good ol' backwards indiana, we don't use it, and it seems to work fine. There's a bill in our state legislature to change that, though-- the given reason being that it's hurting our state businesses because people can't figure out what time to phone here from other states.

My vote is for eliminating it altogether. While I'm dreaming-- if we can slow the earth down to, say, 25 hours a day, that would be super, too.

Winter forward, winter back (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167460)

8 months of daylight savings, 4 months standard? What happens next year, when they get REALLY serious about the energy crisis. Will they extend it to 10 months of daylight savings, 2 months standard?

Sheesh. I'd much rather dump daylight savings altogether. If we should go to work earlier, do it, don't fake it with the "spring forward, fall back" nonsense.

Does it even do anything? (1)

gtrubetskoy (734033) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167468)

It seems to me that lighting is only a minute fraction of our energy requirements these days. Also I heard that DST causes major headaches for people like farmers where your cows have to milked at the same time regardless of what the clock states...

I personally wish we just abandoned the whole idea as it creates more complications than benefits. May be it's just me.

ugh (1)

ThorGod (456163) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167469)

Just means I'd lose an hour of sleep earlier than normal, and get it back later than normal. Bastards.

Didn't we do this in the 70's? (2, Interesting)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167470)

If memory serves, we did it for the entire year. If it was such a great energy-saving idea, why didn't we just keep it?

Poor Animals... (2, Funny)

vmcto (833771) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167472)

I'm sure some environmentalist will quickly decry this because of the negative impact it will have on wildlife...

With them being exposed to more light each day and all.

I thought you were all green freaks? (0, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167474)

You'd rather piss away another 10,000 barrels of oil a day because fixing a bunch of software would be a pain in the ass?

Don't you want jobs?

Well, most slashdotters don't have any computer skills, let alone as programmers, but still?

Or is this just a case of "it behooves us to whine about everything the government does"?

Saving oil, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167475)

Peak oil, perhaps? [lifeaftertheoilcrash.net]

Different Savings (1)

TargetBoy (322020) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167477)

Sounds like cost may not be the only consideration, but rather conservation of the oil resource and working to reduce our reliance on foreign oil.

Sure 10,000 barrels is a drop in the bucket, but we have to start somewhere. Seems like as good a place as any...

DST all the time (1)

plazman30 (531348) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167480)

I would love DST all the time. This east coast getting dark at 4:30PM in the daytime really stinks.

Doing some numbers. (5, Insightful)

Badgerman (19207) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167483)

Let me try and get this straight. We'd save 10,000 barrels a day. We use 20 million.

This is a savings of 1/20th of a percent. And I'm not able to make out if that savings ONLY exists for those 2 months or the year round. Not particuarly impressive either way.

Here's an idea. Let's start passing legislation and using incentives to promote recycling, efficiency, and alternate sources of energy. You know, going to the heart of the problem as opposed to screwing around with something that presents piddly savings and smells more like a publicity stunt.

As for the coding repercussions . . . I can't say for sure.

Awww, Hell No (1)

autosentry (595252) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167484)

So we can't move to more efficient energy than fuel, but we're going to have to [metaphorically] GO BACK IN TIME to preserve what we have? This is just sad.

retarded (3, Interesting)

nordicfrost (118437) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167487)

(excuse me for the bad typing, i hadsurgery in my hand...)

this is the way you want to save energy? a saving of 10 000 barrels / day? if you look out on the streets, do all the people that drive SUVs need to drive them? this is an argument that also apply for eupoe, but goes double for the us. tax the hell out of fuel guzzling monster cars (almost the same size as monster trucks) and lower the tax waaay down on cars like VW Polo, MB Smart and hybrids. this also deal with a lot of other problems like parking. some snowy staes might be a little m ore lean on the tax, like snowy states. But theres no need for an Suv in LA, NY, Paris or Oslo.

Daylight, darkness, whatever... (1)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167490)

Wouldn't there be a sanity savings from just sticking to one standard time? Nighttime to me just means you turn the lights on when driving. Since I tend to use about the same energy during the day and night, I don't see the point.

Considering... (1)

NaruVonWilkins (844204) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167499)

The date of the change changes every year, so the systems in place to set up the time change probably aren't particularly daunting to change. I suspect that the oil saved in the first week would offset the cost to change systems, because most time systems are in a heirarchy. There will be few changes needed.

Congress gets in your business (3, Funny)

Matt Clare (692178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167500)

First they intrude into one individual's health care, now they want to bend time itself!

Is there nothing Congress doesn't assume it has control over?

Daylight Saving Time (1)

Speare (84249) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167503)

It's not a bank. You can't deposit some daylight for a rainy day. Stop calling it "Daylight Savings Time" because that's not what it's called.

Daylight saving time changes are annoying! (1)

Sexual Ass Gerbil (728400) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167505)

Time changes due to daylight savings means having to change the time on several clocks on various household appliances. The time changes are also particularly jarring to the biological clock. I've noticed that with the recent one hour jump ahead that people have been leaving work one hour earlier than usual. Instead of leaving work at around 6:00 PM they are actually leaving work almost an hour earlier at 5:00 PM which gives them not zero hours of daylight left in the day (like it did a week ago) but two! I take that as a sign of fatigue caused by the time shift. I know I don't feel like working as many hours during the day as I did a week ago.

this is stupid (1)

j0nb0y (107699) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167508)

I fail to see how this would significantly affect energy consumption, and it *certainly* wouldn't affect oil consumption, as we don't burn oil for electricity.

Kill It! (1)

Intocabile (532593) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167513)

The sun it's stealing our energy.

Not as big a deal (1)

Ruprecht the Monkeyb (680597) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167515)

Most computers I'm aware of rely on the OS to provide date/time info to the applications. Older applications that queried the BIOS I would think are running on hardware so old that you would have to manually adjust for DST anyway.

I can think of dozens of applications I've written over the years that were at least potentially susceptible to Y2K issues (though fortunately, of the ones still in use by then, all were compliant). I can't think of any that involved code to calculate DST -- they just worked off the system time.

I'm sure there is a lot of real-time applications or other highly specialized stuff (ATC maybe) vulnerable, but I don't think it would have the potential for widespread effects that the date issue did.

My clock radio is probably boned, though.

Can we come up with stupider solutions ? (1)

LouSir (681838) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167516)

Has any politician used the words "Conserve Energy" since the mid-70's ? LouSir

Has anyone thought of this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167517)

Why not construct a series of large mirrors in space, so that the sun could always be reflected back to the dark side of earth? Eliminate darkness altogether...

Statistics!! (5, Insightful)

SnotNosedKid (845144) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167518)

10,000 barrels of oil a day certainly sounds like a lot if you're planning to put it in my back yard, but exactly what percentage is it. Is it just a drop in the proverbial oil bucket. I imagine so. How would it compare to having cars get one extra mile per gallon?

An Alternate Proposal for Daylight Savings (1)

Scoob2134 (253785) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167521)

I have an alternate solution I've proposed that will won't save much energy, but will make the transition to and from Daylight Savings easier on all of us.

http://blogs.msdn.com/jledgard/archive/2005/04/03/ 405041.aspx [msdn.com]

Might as well kill two birds with one stone!

el-cheapo-home-atomic-clocks (1)

jaredmauch (633928) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167522)

i have a bunch of clocks that i didn't have to change because they picked up the updated signal/are programmed to know when the time change happens in the US. *Many* people and devices are now taking time from an external source (eg: CDMA, GPS, NTP)

It would mean a lot of these devices may not work correctly and it's not like i can upload new firmware to them. Creates a lot of electronic trash, er it has lead, so yeah, must recycle.. how many people that can't figure out to keep their systems from being r00ted are going to keep that stuff out of the landfills..

Isn't this a state issue? (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167526)

Don't some states (eg. Arizona) have different policies regarding DST (ie. AZ does not respect DST)?

It all depends on lattitude. The further south one goes the less difference between summer and winter.

My question is.... (2, Insightful)

DarkMantle (784415) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167528)

How does Daylight savings affect the use of energy? Either way, we sleep (using minimal electricity) get up, go to work, come home, cook supper and go back to bed after watching TV.

Please cure my ignorance and tell me how this effects power usage.

JUST SWITCH TO GMT (2, Insightful)

jameskojiro (705701) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167530)

And be done with it!!!

Saving. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167532)

Daylight saving time.

oh yeah.... (4, Funny)

WndrBr3d (219963) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167537)

"The more daylight we have, the less electricity we use," said Markey, who cited Transportation Department estimates that showed the two-month extension would save the equivalent of 10,000 barrels of oil a day.

Apparently they're also going to change how the Earth tilts on its axis. The weather doesn't care what time of day it is.

Leave it to American politicians to think this one up.

Great .. take away free time in the light (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167544)

There is a problem .. this will increase levels of stress by messing with people's rythms .. also the time of non DST in months is reduced so there is less adjustment to it etc.

Have any of these issues been explored?

10,000 barrels a day = .5 million dollars ($50 a barrel).. times 60 (2 months) = 30 million dollars? is this transition worth 30 million a year when we spend billions on oil?

It is Daylight Saving Time, no S (1)

eht (8912) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167548)

Even the linked article got it right, why must people insist on calling it Daylight Savings Time?

Daylight Saving Time [webexhibits.org] info.

Horrible for the security industry (4, Insightful)

SenorAmor (719735) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167549)

As a panel programmer (among other things) for a security company, this would be a major pain in the butt. All of our security panels (and I would assume most others) have built-in DST changing abilities.

Having to reprogram each of our panels to change at a different time would be extremely time-consuming for a small company like mine. I don't even want to imagine what bigger companies would have to go through.

The security field is very time-dependant. One hour could mean having the police called thinking someone is trying to break in or having your premise completely unsecured.

I, for one, hope this change does not get approved. At least Y2K had the possibility of not causing problems. This will definitely cause problems.

Forget DST entirely! (1)

chiph (523845) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167550)

This fall, why not set the clocks back a 1/2 hour, and forget the whole thing?

I know all about the origins of the practice -- let the kids have more daylight, save energy during wartime, etc. IMO, it just isn't worth the hassle or the lost sleep.

Chip H.

If we're going to change it anyway... (2, Insightful)

yotto (590067) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167556)

Why not abolish it?
Seriously, Daylight Savings is the biggest PITA. Either half of your company is late to work or half of them are early and won't get paid for that hour they're sitting around. Then they stand around talking to those of us who are on work on time, wasting our productivity.

Yet another spelling error in the headline... (2, Informative)

MisterLawyer (770687) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167561)

Quoting from The Daylight Saving Time Web Exhibit [webexhibits.org] :

"The official spelling is Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight SavingS Time."

Btw, there's lots of other cool info about DST on that page, e.g.: In the U.S., the changeover time was chosen to be 2 am, when most people are at home and, originally, the time when the fewest trains were running. This is practical and minimizes disruption. It is late enough to minimally affect bars and restaurants, and prevent the day from switching to yesterday (which would be confusing). It is early enough that the entire continental U.S. has switched by daybreak, and the changeover occurs before most early shift workers and early churchgoers (particularly on Easter).

Also, Hawaii doesn't observe DST. I guess they get enough sunlight as it is. Either that or something to do with being so much closer to the equator.

Saving 10,000 Barrels Of Oil A Day? (1)

devphaeton (695736) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167564)

Who cares? Now that we've made Iraq the 51st state we've got all sorts of cheap oil to burn. Look at those gas pumps! Don't you realize $2.50/gallon is CHEAP!?!?

Burn it all up, and while you're at it install some new lights to showcase your shrine to dubya.

DST (1)

bendsley (217788) | more than 9 years ago | (#12167566)

The official spelling is Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight SavingS Time.

Saving is used here as a verbal adjective (a participle). It modifies time and tells us more about its nature; namely, that it is characterized by the activity of saving daylight. It is a saving daylight kind of time. Similar examples would be dog walking time or book reading time. Since saving is a verb describing a single type of activity, the form is singular.

Nevertheless, many people feel the word savings (with an 's') flows more mellifluously off the tongue, and Daylight Savings Time is also in common usage, and can be found in dictionaries.

Part of the confusion is because the phrase Daylight Saving Time is inaccurate, since no daylight is actually saved. Daylight Shifting Time would be better, but it is not as politically desirable.

Indiana Impact (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12167587)

What impact will using daylight saving time in Indiana have on computer systems? Currently Indiana (like Arizona and Hawaii) stays on one time all year; the Indiana State house is trying to change the state to use daylight savings.
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