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The Almighty Buck Entertainment Games

Would You Pay for Steam? 130

Posted by Cliff from the in-the-eventualiity-of-a-subscriber-model dept.
dasmurf asks: "Many users have discussed this possibility. Now that Steam has pioneered the biggest online game delivery system to date, is it as simple as that? Read my concerns about the Steam Subscriber Agreement. Has anyone else read this agreement? Should Valve change it? If you love Valve's games but you've never religiously kept an eye on your credit card statement, maybe this will give you more reason. ;)"
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Would You Pay for Steam? More

Would You Pay for Steam?

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  • Mirror in case of Slashdotting... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:48PM (#10481507)
    Valve's Steam just released 3 software packages you can buy. It's great to be able to play CS:S while Valve and Vivendi duke out their legal battles. However, I have some concerns about their Subscriber Agreement - in particular, section 4.

    Most people dismiss agreements like this. EULA's are probably discarded on a per-minute basis around the world, but this SA is slightly different. First, the games being offered are
    not for "purchase" but rather available for "access" via a "Subscription fee". If this doesn't fuel the fear that Valve will turn Steam into a huge subscription-based monster like Evercrack, I don't know what would (I'll leave the debate whether subscription based games are the future or not for someone else - read: don't discuss that here, thx). Even if Valve doesn't morph into a subscription-based system, the usage of the term certainly keeps this open (as if the terms in 4B doesn't). And second, there appears to be a "forced subscription" model in place - meaning that if you don't say "NO" loudly enough, you probably will have to foot a "bleeding from the wallet" fee.

    In it, 4A suggests that the end user agrees to maintain up-to-date credit card information with Valve. Other than a pre-authorized payment subscription type plan, I don't know why else that would be required. Section 4B states that Valve offers a 30-day period for announcing changes to their fees and billing methods and that "non cancellation" of their services automatically means you agree to and authorized payment of the new fee(s) and/or billing method(s).

    The concern of 4B is not limited to this Steam Powered SA and is apparent in many subscription and pre-authorized payment plans, albeit probably not in the exact wording. And if you're not careful, you may have ended up in this kind of credit card "trap" before.

    By "trap", I mean that the credit card owner ends up paying for new and different services he or she may or may not have wanted in the first place. And that redressment, reimbursement, reversal of charges, or credit of any kind is not possible, as stated in the SA. I hate to be cynical, but you can hear laughter from the Swindler's gallery snicking "We've covered our butts, but we've prevented you from covering yours!"

    This reminds me of the opt-in/opt-out warefare in the courts not too terribly long ago. The most recent in my memory is the Telemarketing do-not-call plan.

    Here's an example of the Valve SA gone bad:

    John Doe "buys" the Gold package and gets the merchandise 2 months later, all the while enjoying CS:S and awaits HL2 and other games when they're out. Then, he stops playing Steam games for some reason or other. Maybe it's going to Iraq for 6 months. Maybe he's KIA and his family's a mess trying to get his body back from some third world country. Maybe it's being laid off an no net connection. Maybe he's got a new baby and he has no time for the computer. Maybe his wife has cancer and he doesn't want to leave her side. Maybe he's in jail for insider trading. Maybe he's found a new game and dropped Steam games like a bad habit. Maybe he's just forgotten his password and given up on the damned thing. Or maybe he's installed a anti-spam software, e-mail filters, firewalls, anti-spyware, and disables services and system functions on this computer so that the accumulative effects prevented the announcement of a change in the fees and/or billing methods from ever being read.
    Anyhow, Valve's new fee/billing method is not known for months until the credit card bill is examined. While the saavy credit card holder who bought the Gold Package may immediately know where to cancel, the poor widow of GI John Doe might take weeks to find out who the hell Valve is and put a stop to the incessant monthly billing. SORRY, NO REFUNDS!

    The first thing you might laugh at is the assumption that John Doe doesn't read his credit card bill every month. Some people watch it like a hawk, and some people aren't as diilgent. It's a fact of life. But is it just to make such per
    • Um... how the hell can you slashdot slashdot.org? And if it were slashdotted, you most certainly wouldn't be able to read your comment...
    • This is really funny if you note that the article itself is just a link to someone's journal on Slashdot.
    • A while back, Valve was seriously talking about Steam being a subscription service [valve-erc.com], allowing you to play any games that get released by Valve while you are subscribed.

      I think this was laughed out by gamers, as Valve's games releases haven't exactly been particularly regular (or on time), and there's been no mention of a subscription in the final offers [valve-erc.com].

      Is the EULA out of date in referring to all the subscription stuff? They really ought to update it, what with that Half-Life 2 thing imminent...
      • Would You Pay for Steam?

        No.

        Many users have discussed this possibility.

        Then they're morons.

        Now that Steam has pioneered the biggest online game delivery system to date, is it as simple as that?

        Not really, since 99% of people only know about steam because they enjoy playing counter-strike(which valve did not in any way have the forsight to create). The fact that we can patch a little easier through steam every few weeks is almost irrelevant.

        Read my concerns about the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
    • Then, he stops playing Steam games for some reason or other. Maybe it's going to Iraq for 6 months. Maybe he's KIA and his family's a mess trying to get his body back from some third world country. Maybe it's being laid off an no net connection. Maybe he's got a new baby and he has no time for the computer. Maybe his wife has cancer and he doesn't want to leave her side. Maybe he's in jail for insider trading. Maybe he's found a new game and dropped Steam games like a bad habit. Maybe he's just forgotten hi

  • Avoiding company controlled technology (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:51PM (#10481520)
    This is precisly why I don't want anything to do with Steam or any other similar technology. Anyone who falls for this is a complete sucker. They get you to install software they have almost complete control over... what did you think they'd do next?

    • Moderation abuse (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Arker ( 91948 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @12:02AM (#10483634) Homepage

      This is precisly why I don't want anything to do with Steam or any other similar technology. Anyone who falls for this is a complete sucker. They get you to install software they have almost complete control over... what did you think they'd do next?

      This was posted AC (score 0) and within a few minutes modded down to -1 (overrated.)

      Just what's overrated there? Even if it wasn't a particularly good post, at score 0 it was hardly 'overrated.'

      In fact I thought it was a very good post. It's exactly what I'm thinking. When they made it impossible to play CS anymore without selling your soul for Steam, I quit playing it. If I were a rich man who could afford to throw thousands of dollars away on a principle, I would have sued them for it - I paid for a game that they then proceeded to make unplayable unless I signed away my rights on a new deal where they hold all the cards.

      Am I and the 'overrated' AC above really the only people that care about such issues? Is everyone else here really happy to go along with whatever lopsided agreement some company wants out of them, as long as they get the pretty flashing lights to entertain them?

      I guess anyone that fits that description is indeed a 'sucker' and will get what he deserves.

      • This was posted AC (score 0) and within a few minutes modded down to -1 (overrated.)

        Just what's overrated there? Even if it wasn't a particularly good post, at score 0 it was hardly 'overrated.'

        With all the FUD that's been floating around about Steam, the AC could have elaborated a bit more. If you don't want to get hit by an "overrated" tag, then don't post one-liners that can be confused with something that's "overrated".

        When I transferred over to Steam, I didn't have to pay a dime because I already

        • Re:Moderation abuse (Score:3, Informative)

          by Arker ( 91948 )

          With all the FUD that's been floating around about Steam, the AC could have elaborated a bit more. If you don't want to get hit by an "overrated" tag, then don't post one-liners that can be confused with something that's "overrated".

          The overrated tag, imop, points quite simply to a cowardly moderator trying to shut down a point of view he disagreed with.

          When I transferred over to Steam, I didn't have to pay a dime because I already purchased Half-Life.

          No, you didn't have to pay a dime. Neither did I.

          • The overrated tag, imop, points quite simply to a cowardly moderator trying to shut down a point of view he disagreed with.

            It's kind of funny the things people will say when other people don't reply. Now, I don't use Steam, and I don't play any of the games offered through the service, but I will say that there were many other posts at that time which explained why people would not use the service, or why they didn't agree with it - posts like the one directly preceding our Mister Anonymous, or the ones w
          • The overrated tag, imop, points quite simply to a cowardly moderator trying to shut down a point of view he disagreed with.

            Personally, I use it as a Wrong tag, for information that is false but that the poster possibly used in good faith.
            However, simple generalizations are more confortable (ask Bush) so feel free to keep insulting random people.

    • It's not too horrible. I mean I was able to play CS:Source within a few minutes of it being released because of this. Now I've never given them credit card information (got bundle with ati video card) of any sort but have access to CS, CS:Source, and soon (hopefully) HL2. They offer preloading for HL2 so on release it can just become unlocked. That gives you the release quickly, fixes automatically, and it's pretty simple. Try it before you knock it.
    • I agree. I would never pay for steam, but I might pay a premium for a copy of the game that isn't crippled by it.

  • Reply to Article (Score:1, Redundant)

    by unixbum ( 720776 )
    No

  • Urgh. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by colinramsay ( 603167 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:02PM (#10481576) Homepage
    Speculation. I'd pay for Steam - because it will deliver me the games I want to play in a timely fashion. I'm not interested in game packaging. Buying CS:CZ was flawless for me, the whole interface and procedure was excellent. If I do have to subscribe, I'm not bothered. I'll work out the pricing and see whether it works out better for me. Otherwise I won't bother. You may remember that Valve has previously talked about two Steam payment methods - subscription (all Valve products within your sub period) or product by product. This would seem to still make sense.

    Also, you have to bear in mind that I'm not an idiot and I know how to use my online banking service to check what's going out of my account.

    • Re:Urgh. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by barc0001 ( 173002 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @07:08AM (#10485093)
      I think the main thrust of the fear by the article's submitter was the whole "negative billing" aspect, and the subscription based thing.

      First to address the negative billing (We add new stuff and you pay for it unless you tell us otherwise), I've been hit by this wonderful "feature" before, the cable company up in my neck of the woods (thanks Rogers! Go burn in hell for me, wouldja?) practiced it until enough customers made a royal stink in the media about it and the provincial government threatened to step in on their behalf. Nothing like opening up your cable bill to find that you've had 10 new channels for the last month that you didn't want, and were charged $7 for the privilege. And it's only easy to get a refund for that *AFTER* the government threatens to kick the cable company between the legs. Somehow with Steam I don't think there'd be anyone stepping in. It took dozens of people picketing for weeks on end to get action with the cable thing, I just don't see that happening over such a decentralized customer base like Steam's. Steam's agreement IS set up to potentially allow negative billing. That's enough for me to never consider using it.

      The subscriber aspect is also not so good. If in fact the software you download only works while your account is up to date, what's the point? I spent $180 over a year and a half playing online games with nothing to show for it the second I closed out my account. I'd feel like a real chump paying to use Steam for 6 months, just using Half-Life 2, and then cancelling and having nothing, instead of taking that same money and buying a box from the local software shop. And also, does this mean that each time you fire up the game it has to authenicate against Steam to see if it's allowed to run? Good luck playing it without a net connection then...
      • Steam is nationwide (at least, I haven't been paying attention) and that will put it under the realm of interstate commerce, which means that they're more likely to get busted than your local cable company, not less. The penalties are higher which means more money for the government which seems to be their only real motivation.
      • Negative billing refunds- tell them you want a full refund. When they give you any trouble, cancel your service (all your service) immediately. THey always crumble to that.
        • THey always crumble to that.

          HA! No, seriously...

          If they're the only cable company in town, who else are you gonna go to? If Steam is the only way to get whatever Steam offers and you want it, what are you gonna do?

          It's a carefully balanced act. And from the cable episode, all of us in Vancouver learned that even a thousand people cancelling service isn't enough to get Rogers Cable to give out refunds for services delivered. Only the government threating 7 figures in fines can loosen their wallet.
          • If its the only cable co in town- quit anyway. They want your 30 bucks a month. They will refund 10 once to keep it. Just tell them to cancel the account, and you will get your money.
            • If its the only cable co in town- quit anyway

              You seem to be missing the point. The reason people, myself included, were paying Rogers for cable is that we wanted cable. This includes my cable modem. And they are the only game in town. Actually they've traded sides of the country with Shaw in a strange deal, but the same still applies with Shaw, they are the only game in town. So your logic is that if I have a dispute with them over 10 bucks, I should:

              - Cancel my account
              - lose both the cable TV I wa
              • Actually, I do have a single provider- Time Warner or nothing. And never once has any of them ever said no when I said "Refund now or I'm canceling my account". IF you haven't had the same response, then obviously they knew you were bluffing. Its a matter of making them think that you're serious (or actually being serious, either way).

    • Re:Urgh. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by antin ( 185674 )
      What happens if your decision to pay for the "all products within sub-period" is based upon fraudulent information? I bring this up because it seems the very issue has already arisen with Valve, who kept repeating a release date they knew they never had a chance of meeting - and I think a fair few people are regretting the purchase of new video cards based on that information...

      I can imagine an awful lot of people subscribing for a year (or however long) based on the assumption that the new game will ship
      • and I think a fair few people are regretting the purchase of new video cards based on that information...

        Maybe that will make them actually think the next time. Buying hardware only for games that aren't out yet is plain stupid. You can still buy the hardware when the game's out, and it will even usually be cheaper then.
        • True, except in this case they were (if buying ATI) given an incentive due to the game-voucher... Which in itself is practically a statement certifying that the video card would run the game.

          But in general I definitely agree with you; it is not sensible to buy hardware to run something in advance (well not too far in advance). But with a subscription service (as the original parent was discussing) that is exactly what you are doing - except with software, not hardware.

  • Depends (Score:3, Informative)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:10PM (#10481620) Homepage Journal
    Right now I dual boot. Why? Steam. Steam is pretty much the only windows-only PC game left that I have a desire to play. Everything else is either so old I can emulate it with dosbox or wine perfectly. Or it is like doom3 with linux support. Mostly I don't play pc games much anymore.

    As it stands I wont pay anything for steam. However, if Valve made Steam for linux I would pay. I would pay... 100 bucks for a lifetime. Or 5 bucks a month. As long as it worked and I get every game.

    Meanwhile despite my dual booting I haven't actually played Steam in many months. That will probably change soon with HL2 and all.
    • Steam and current games except CS: Source work fine in Cedega, and sometimes works/sometimes doesn't in WineHQ wine (depending on state of b0rkage), with decent FPS.

      I still won't be buying HL2 unless they announce that there will be a Linux port, but steam is runnable on Linux.
    • 100 bucks for life or 5 bucks per month? You're not planning on living very long, are you?

  • License agreemtent. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:17PM (#10481641) Journal
    First a quick rant, I bought HL2 to get CS:Source now, the only bitch is, I already owned CS:CZ, so It feels like I paid for it twice. And CS:Source doesn't have bots, so CS:CZ is the only offline play around.

    They hit every standard aspect, they own everything, you cant do anything but play the game, and you have no rights. Typical EULA.

    My understanding is EULA's can't over ride laws, example put yourself into indentured servitude.
    So, I think creating 3rd party programs to work with STEAM cant be blocked by the EULA as its outside the scope of the software use.

    Maybe we need a consumers rights bill for software. We finally got one for spyware in the US.

    • They hit every standard aspect, they own everything, you cant do anything but play the game, and you have no rights. Typical EULA.

      I wonder if it a lot of it is just some legal waffle produced by some solicitors; Valve has often openly accepted (and encouraged) behaviour by mod-makers that is explicitly disallowed by the games' EULAs.

      One example - as a mod-maker, I'm allowed to use any content from any Half-Life-engined game in my mod. Even if it's a separate commercial product produced by a different com
      • Back in the day of Steam v1 (A closed-beta system most people never used), Valve had planned for Steam to be exclusively subscription. And up until recently, they had planned to offer a subscription option to HL2.

        Apparently they decided to abandon these plans, at least temporarily, and are not currently offering any subscription-based packages. However it's possible that the EULA dates back to a period where they were planning on it.
    • My understanding is EULA's can't over ride laws, example put yourself into indentured servitude

      That may very well not be the case if the Blizzard V. Bnetd case [slashdot.org], which declares EULAs as conscionable (and thus enforceable), does not win it's appeal.

      However, I think the posters tin foil has it on a bit too tight as the user agreement is in relation to STEAM and not HL2, which will no doubt have a drastically different EULA upon installation. We'll have to wait and see what kind of agreement valve puts

  • For... what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:51PM (#10481934)
    When you consider what Valve's record is, I'm not seeing any reason to even consider this. Here is Valve's record thus far (for the most part) :

    Half-Life

    Sign up for a subscriber system from a company with a track record of one game? Yeah right. Valve hit the gold mine with Half-Life, but thus far they've proven to be nothing more than a company with producer problems and a sell-out who resorts to buying player-made stuff to support them.

    • Re:For... what? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lisandro ( 799651 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @07:48PM (#10482363)
      Pun aside, this is a point. The only reason people is so interested in Steam is Half-life 2; otherwise, all you can download from Steam is HL and assorted mods. The integrated server browser is nice, but hardly anything we haven't seen before (and even better done [udpsoft.com]).

      So, if the choice is so limited, why even bother? It'd like be going to a supermarket and paying to use a cart than only lets you bring home 10 products. If Steam let me download any game i wanted, make sure it stays patched and assures me i'd be able to play it no matter what (even if i cancelled my subscription), i would consider it. But no thanks.

      • Re:For... what? (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Steam is still pretty new... did you really expect them to have a large library of games by now? For now, Steam is pretty much a proof-of-concept. Their next step is probably to get other companies to use Steam to distribute their games.
        • Steam is still pretty new... did you really expect them to have a large library of games by now? For now, Steam is pretty much a proof-of-concept. Their next step is probably to get other companies to use Steam to distribute their game. Somehow i have this feeling each major publisher/developer will attempt to introduce it's own version of an online delivery system. It would be pretty nice to have an unified system, but i don't think it's happening. Still, i can see how it can become interesting to pa
          • " It would be pretty nice to have an unified system, but i don't think it's happening. "

            The problem with everyone using valve is valve is a competitor to their game. Even a company like blizzard that doesn't make PC FPS games (Unless they port sc ghost) couldnt justify giving such a great asset to them, because you're essentially advertising something people could play instead

      • Right company, wrong product. ASE is great, but its no use once you're ingame. Try the old quakeworld proxy qizmo (http://www.udpsoft.com/qizmo/).
    • That's right, the product responsible for making Steam commercially possible (Counter-strike) wasn't a Valve creation at all. Without CS, Half-life would go down in history as a great game, but no one would be playing it now, 5 years later.

  • bah! (Score:5, Funny)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @07:18PM (#10482135) Homepage
    all this steam stuff is just a bunch of hot air

    If you don't get it, reread it!

    • Re:bah! (Score:2, Informative)

      by unixbum ( 720776 )
      "all this steam stuff is just a bunch of hot air

      If you don't get it, reread it!"
      Correction: Hot air is aproximately 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, 1% argon and less than 1% carbon dioxide.

      This steam you refer to is vaporized condensated dihydrogen monoxide(Water). </picky mode>
    • all this steam stuff is just a bunch of hot air

      Dude, steam is hot water.

    • Sounds like vaporware to me!

  • Fortunatly (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Deliveranc3 ( 629997 ) <deliverance@level4 . o rg> on Saturday October 09, 2004 @07:33PM (#10482256) Journal
    CS doesn't have a monopoly on team based, squad combat, the only reason to play is the level of the gamers involved.

    That being said Raven Shield is heading for the $19.99 bin and bullshit with extra "content packs" aside it's a brilliant game.

    I got a copy of HL2 for free but I won't be using it until I'm damn sure they won't want credit card information.

    The sad thing is that people will never have a game they can play nostalgicly, they will never have the option of being without steam. Why would you trust these people? They are trying to move away from Vivendi and ensure that they have a ton of money to start publishing for themselves.

    On top of that you are playing MODS these were created by people who theorertically loved the gaming community, now they are thinking of doing it for a living! How many people who contributed to making CS, DOD, Natural Selection and other things that allowed this state of events will never be payed? In fact their hard work was flushed down the drain with the arrival of Steam.

    Mod makers I beg you develop for a free platform! There are engines out there you can use for free!
    • What is Valve going to do, look up the card numbers of everyone who got HL2 for free and buy beer and hookers?

      Tim

    • Re:Fortunatly (Score:3, Informative)

      by Dmala ( 752610 )
      I got a copy of HL2 for free but I won't be using it until I'm damn sure they won't want credit card information.

      Go ahead and use it. Once you have Steam installed, all they ask you for is the code printed on your coupon. I did it, and Steam reports that HL2 has been purchased and CS:Source is available now, no CC info required.

  • open-source steam (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SanityInAnarchy ( 655584 ) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Saturday October 09, 2004 @07:41PM (#10482316) Journal
    I'd rather write a game engine (open-source) which updates itself as you play. I have 2 mbit DSL, there's no reason Steam should make me wait to download an entire HL level when only 50 feet in front of me is visible. Make it use bytecode (java, perl6, c#), open-source it (all the major client-side attacks you'd get from an open-source game engine have already been done through GL hacks)...

    With this system finished and used by major game studios, all games would be developed faster and run on any major platform without any modification. I'd be willing to pay a subscription fee for that. Not Steam -- I have Doom 3, I don't care about CS, so HL2 is all I need -- I'd subscribe for a week, then lose it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I'd much rather use a download one level ahead system IF it cached. You then check if your cached files creation date is older than the servers creation date, if so you use delta compression to just download the updates.

        Downloading as you go the way the grand-parent-poster suggested wouldnt work because you need to know a lot about a map before you start computing it for things like shadows embeded cameras (like HL2 or q3), etc. Then theres the problem of sounds from far away, and probably some more.
  • Sure, if it was reliable and more cost-effective than running my own furnace and water heater.

    Oh. You mean some game? No.
  • I have been trying to get a public 1.5 server up since the WON servers went down. I have tried 4.1.1.0 windows with no-won patch [S]and I have tried the windows standalone server 1.1.1.0 and I have tried the nowon hacked together 1.1.1.1b standalone and I have tried the 1.0.0.5 retail server, using every combination with/out +sv_lan 1 and -nomaster. I have tried the linux server 3.1.1.0e with the nowon2.pl and every flag/patch combination you can imagine.

    If anyone is able to create a NON-LAN RESTRICTED 1.5

  • SECOND biggest online game delivery system? (Score:5, Funny)

    by radimvice ( 762083 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @10:38PM (#10483287) Homepage
    Now that Steam has pioneered the biggest online game delivery system to date[...]

    Second to BitTorrent, of course.
  • I keep on seeing steam mentioned somewhere,
    But what the heck is it?
    Ok so I checked the link in the article, which lead me to a very shallow . I tried [steampowered.com] , which was no help at all. [google.com]

    I have a vague grasp of what it is by now, it seems like some cross of instant messenger and automatic updater/downloader, with a few online games thrown in.
    but can I somewhere find a more in depth explanation of what it does and how it does it? And why it is the best thing since preprocesed cheese?
    • (Darn, I did preview, but somehow I still managed to mess it up. second try, mod parent down)

      I keep on seeing steam mentioned somewhere,
      But what the heck is it?
      Ok so I checked the link in the article, which lead me to a very shallow feature list [steampowered.com]. I tried google [google.com], which was no help at all.

      I have a vague grasp of what it is by now, it seems like some cross of instant messenger and automatic updater/downloader, with a few online games thrown in.
      but can I somewhere find a more in depth explanation of what it

      • Re:What the heck is it? (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I'll try my best. Steam is a content delivery system at heart with other things added on top. It allows you to buy games online and they will be sent to you through the Steam servers (not peer-to-peer as some people think). If it stopped there, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it, but it goes deeper. You have to use Steam to play Half-Life and its mods; there is no way around it. It can take up to a minute to login to Steam in order to play your games. Once in, the steam client has a built in server b

  • Paying For Steam (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adamjone ( 412980 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @10:56PM (#10483380) Homepage
    As it stands now, if Valve converted steam to a pay-for service, I'd drop it. It just isn't worth the hassle. The client is still pretty buggy, which bothers me a bit. I'm not into paying a fee for MMORPGs either. I'd much rather pay for my game once, and then be able to use the game as often as I like. If the game has online multiplayer support for free, I will use it to see if I like it. But if I have to pay a usage fee, well, my monthly entertainment bill is high enough already.
  • All kinds of people are willing to pay for vapor, so why not steam? In spite of the old saying that you don't get something for nothing, there are thousands of companies that sell nothing for something, and are making a killing.
  • The EULA is abundantly clear. If you don't like it, don't subscribe.

    Let me say this as clearly as possible: There is nothing wrong with their EULA. It is the business model that you clearly do not like.

    Get used to subscription based services.
    • How about "no"?

      If everyone DOESN'T get used to subscription based services, they won't be offered. Simple as that. If 90% of Valve's customer base doesn't go for Steam because of the subscription-based system for what has traditionally been a one-time purchase transaction, they will:

      1) Change what they're doing to mae Steam more appealing to those 90% so that they can keep their company running
      or
      2) Lay off 95% of their staff and run the company out of a mobile home somewhere in the Cascades.

      It's up t

  • typical unfounded conspiracy fears (Score:3, Insightful)

    by humbads ( 240455 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @12:57AM (#10483821)
    I activated Half Life 2 for free with a coupon that came with an ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 9600 Pro video card. At no time have I entered my CC information into Steam. Therefore, it's impossible for Valve to start automatically charging me for a hypothetical Steam subscription.

    Suppose that I had purchased HL2, regardless of what's in the EULA, I find it hard to understand how could they charge me without my authorization. Did you know that a typical credit card charge-back fee paid by merchants is $60.00? If Valve decided to sneak in an automated charge, how many people do you think would issue charge backs. Do you really think Valve could afford this along with the accompanying negative publicity?
  • i paid for halflife a long time ago (1998). now i want to register it with Steam (just so i can play it online) but they say my cd-key is already used. and in their FAQ they want me to pay $10 "handling" so that they can "reset" my cd-key.
    TOTALY EVIL http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=cd_acco unt_faq [steampowered.com]

  • My answer: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Cornflake917 ( 515940 )
    Maybe...but I would be really pissed off. I already paid 30 bucks through Steam in order to play the CS:S beta (or in other words i bought CS:CZ, which is really not worth a dollar if you already own cs). Than I paid 60 bucks for the HL2 silver package to be able to play CS:S source right away. I think Valve is gonna make tons of money off of gullible dumbfucks like me. I knew I was wasting my money when I bought CS:CZ but I just wanted to see what the source engine felt like and I was so sick of the o
  • If they tried to charge a subscription fee for
    steam I would delete HL and all the mods of my
    system and would never buy another Valve game again.
    I suspect that almost everyone else would as well.

    HL isnt the only game on the block... making
    it subscription based would be the end of them.

  • Too much FUD. (Score:4, Informative)

    by ledow ( 319597 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:51AM (#10485608) Homepage
    1) It's always been in the Steam EULA and no story appeared about this when Steam was launched.

    2) They won't be able to charge you for something you don't specifically agree to, i.e. a game "subscription" or similar.

    3) If you agree to a subscription and paid via credit card straight to Steam, then you've just bought yourself a contract that says they'll take out next month's money next month. My ISP does the same, so do my hosting providers, etc. what's the difference?

    4) If they suddenly start changing ALL games on Steam over to subscription, bye-bye 90% of their users, hello some other 3D FPS.

    5) (quite a minor point considering 2 and 3)... how would they automatically charge my credit card when there's not one registered on the account? Answer: They can't. Buy the game in-shop, install and you don't ever need to enter anything but a CD-Key.

    Don't blow this out of proportion, it's no worse than any other EULA and it's all there in black and white and has been for a long time..

    • Are you confusing the EULA with the Subscription Agreement? For clarity's sake, I would prefer to define the EULA [webopedia.com] as the one included in off-the-shelf boxed software products, and the SA as the one Valve uses for all Steam related issues. If you read both, they are not exactly the same.

      Your second point is preferred by just about everyone. However, if you read the SA's section 4B, you can see where a potention loophole whereby a change in fees and billing methods can result in the credit card holding foo

  • Don't you see... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by space_jake ( 687452 )
    ...a good thing for gaming when it comes along? Valve has done nothing (aside from the cyber cafe nonsense) but try to preserve PC gaming. Granted they're doing some of it for profit but I wonder how much the creators of CS and DOD got for Valve to buy up their mods? I wonder what incentive that puts in the minds of mod-makers to work on mods for HL2. If its good, Valve might buy yours and release it for $10-20 to the public via retail for those that might not have been mod savvy enough to find and down
  • Put it down to piracy or put it down to greed but this is going to start happening and soon it will be more and more. Think about it, half life/steam is currently the largest base of players on the net, there are around 25k CS servers on the net at any one time with second place hobbling along at 7-9k. How long is it before a suit takes a look and figures out that even if they charge, figures show that number will go down to 5k servers. It is still more money than they get now. Oh sure they will say it is
  • But who cares? That is essentially my attitude regarding Steam.

    a) I don't have a credit card, so that rules me out by default whether I'd *like* to sign up or not. In a move displaying their usual level of intelligence, EA made the credit-card only mistake with the Sims Online, and then scratched their heads wondering why they weren't able to break the 100k user barrier. It ain't rocket science, guys. I bought one of the first copies of TSO available in this country (Australia) and have paid for all of th

  • Dry, high-enthalpy steam preferred (Score:3, Funny)

    by MemoryAid ( 675811 ) on Monday October 11, 2004 @02:02AM (#10490586)
    I suppose, yes, I would pay for steam, if the price was right. Obviously, anybody can set a teapot to boil, but that steam condenses pretty readily. I would rather pay for some high-pressure dry steam that could cut a broom handle in half at two meters. I'd pay big bucks for that, 'cause it would be awesome.
  • Whats happened and what we can do about it:

    1)They've taken all the steps necessary to bend us over and start feeding us a subscription only service to one of the most popular FPS games out there.

    Response: Don't sign up for it. Yah, it may suck not to play CS, but there are PLENTY of other FPS games out there that are equally as good and that don't bend you over. If this happens enough, perhaps they will get the message.

    2)They can automagically charge your card for things without you knowing.

    Response: Its

  • I downloaded Steam a few months in order to play the latest version of Day of Defeat, one of my favourite games. I initially found it buggy, but it seemed to work reasonably well, so was quite happy to keep it installed.

    However, I was a little skeptical of Valve's promotion of it as a content delivery system, and considering the prices of Half-Life 2 over Steam, I think my skepticism has been borne out.

    For example, the UK retail version on DVD of Half-Life 2 is EUR 39 (including S&H) from play.com to

  • wow... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Poseidon88 ( 791279 )
    A lot of animosity, and a lot of uninformed opinions in this thread. It seems clear to me that many who are most vehemently opposed to Steam haven't even tried it to see that it A) actually works quite well, B) does not require you to sign over your first born in order to play games, and C) there are no recurring fees.

    My experience with Steam: Last month, I heard that if you installed Steam you could pre-install HL2, so I installed it. Steam proceeded to download a couple gigs of data files to my comput

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