Starbucks - Your Next Music Superstore? 226
prostoalex writes "The Fast Company magazine looks into the next horizon in music retailing - allowing customers to choose the songs they like in relaxed environment and burning custom CDs from digital copies of the content. The claimed innovator in the field is none other than Seattle-based Starbucks: 'This August, Starbucks will install individual music-listening stations, with CD-burning capabilities, in 10 existing Starbucks locations in Seattle. From there, the concept rolls out to Texas in the fall, including Starbucks stores in the music mecca of Austin. With the help of technology partner Hewlett-Packard, Starbucks plans to have 100 coffee shops across the country enabled with Hear Music CD-burning stations by next Christmas, and more than 1,000 locations up and running by the end of 2005.' And what's wrong with traditional music outlets? 'Schultz and MacKinnon came to believe that the core Starbucks customer, an affluent 25- to 50-year-old who's likelier to be tuned in to NPR than to MTV or one of the nine gazillion radio stations owned by Clear Channel Communications Inc., probably feels ignored by the music industry.'"
10 existing Starbucks locations in Seattle (Score:5, Funny)
Re:10 existing Starbucks locations in Seattle (Score:4, Funny)
Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:5, Interesting)
'Schultz and MacKinnon came to believe that the core Starbucks customer, an affluent 25- to 50-year-old who's likelier to be tuned in to NPR than to MTV or one of the nine gazillion radio stations owned by Clear Channel Communications Inc., probably feels ignored by the music industry.'
What Starbucks are they looking at? The few times I've been in a Starbucks, it's been full of dumb teenagers humming Brittney Spears songs. It's not like the stuff they're promoting isn't mainstream anyway. It's just a different branch of mainstream.
Show me a Starbucks where they play Mineral, Freakwater, or Belle and Sebastian, and I'll be impressed.
(On a slightly related note: one of the funniest things I have ever seen was at a Starbucks in St. Louis, MO, where I went to college. A bunch of punk kids (15-18 years old, I'd guess), with their anarchy patches and bright colored mohawks, were sitting outside the local Starbucks, happily sipping their corporate-whore coffee. I laughed my ass off. Ah, the irony.)
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anecdotes != data. I'm sure Starbucks has spent millions determining their demographics.
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anecdotes != data. I'm sure Starbucks has spent millions determining their demographics.
Indeed they did. From the Article:
Schultz and MacKinnon came to believe that the core Starbucks customer, an affluent 25- to 50-year-old who's likelier to be tuned in to NPR than to MTV
They determined that their customer is more likely to be a talk show radio listener than a music listener. And yet they plan to offer music, and not talk radio sessions, in their stores? I think they're letting their "vision" get in the way of their research.
As an NPR listener myself, I tune in precisely because it doesn't have any music, and I don't usually buy music. Why does Starbuck's think that they can sell me some?
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't that an oxymoron? How can there be more than one "main" branch?
Show me a Starbucks where they play Mineral, Freakwater, or Belle and Sebastian
Ah, yes. Everybody thinks their own favorite bands are edgy, eclectic well-kept secrets, and everything else is corporate mass media pablum. News flash: "underground cachet" is just another marketing technique.
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:5, Insightful)
How can there be more than one "main" branch?
Of course there are different branches of mainstream music. Pop, hip hop, country, punk, metal, etc. all have some artists who are mainstream, and some which are "edgy, eclectic well-kept secrets." If you just dislike my metaphor, I apologize. On reflection, it is a bit awkward.
What I'm trying to say is that considerng Ella Fitzgerald and Lauryn Hill outside the mainstream seems silly to me. No, they're not all over the Top 40, but they aren't really unknown either.
But, then, I worked in college radio, so perhaps my idea of "mainstream" is a bit skewed.
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:2)
Show me a Starbucks where they play Mozart, Bach, or Vivaldi and I'll be impressed.
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:2)
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:5, Interesting)
If your in Santa Monica, CA, your might want to to take a gander at the Hear Music/Starbucks store there. You can listen to any CD & read all the liner notes, while sipping down some outrageously expensive 3rd rate coffee.
Love "Hear Music", hate "Starbucks".
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Core Starbucks Customer?? (Score:2)
In a city that's as big on local business as austin is, I find it hard to believe they're trying to cater to the "NPR" market.
Starbucks has good music (Score:2)
I couldn't believe it.
Someone who seriously knows good music is programming their tunes.
Re:10 existing Starbucks locations in Seattle (Score:2)
Seattle has ~560000 people, ~510000 > 14 years old), so that's about 1 Starbucks per 4000 people.
There are also two "Urban Coffee Opportunities", whatever those are.
There are 319 locations within 50 miles of Seattle's city center.
Re:10 existing Starbucks locations in Seattle (Score:2)
As for whether you're missing much, no. They actually do have decent coffee, but so do virtually all competing coffee places by now. If you go to a dedicated coffee shop (not a restaurant that ha
Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:4, Funny)
Heh, just what I need, more of their products. I get no sleep as it is
Re:Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:2)
Re:Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:2)
Re:Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:2)
Bars should learn from their lead. Soon we will have bands, djs, comedians, etc to lead us to eat, drink, and have a good time.
Re:Sit down and enjoy the coffee (Score:2)
Hmm, at Starbuck's rates I'm surprised that anyone is using their wireless service at all. The rates [t-mobile.com] are one of the following plans:
Even the bulk rate of
Music Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
Wonder how they came to that conclusion.
I also wonder why the music industry hasn't.
Re:Music Industry (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, wait... was that a rhetorical question?
Re:Music Industry (Score:3, Insightful)
It isn't outside their "core competency"... (Score:3, Insightful)
And, though anecdotes mean very little in this game, I can't count the number of times that I wish I could have burned a copy of the music playing in a cofeehouse around here. As long as it isn't ou
Re:Music Industry (Score:2)
It is far more cost-efficient to provide for the unwashed masses than to cater to a niche market. In otherwords, as usual, The Bottom Line.
Futile (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe they have. However, maybe they've also determined that those individuals are already vehemently opposed to "corporately distributed" music, and are thus unlikely to purchase their products.
Such widely propagated beliefs, after all, die hard: According to many, network news is still liberal, American corporations are still honest, and only democrats violate civil liberties. To some, large, corporate music distributors will always be nefarious. And they're
Re:Music Industry (Score:2)
The problem is not with the music industry, it's with the broadcasters who play the same thing on every station. The music industry would be happy to get exposure for new bands, but they don't decide what gets played. They did influence that at one point, but pay
And where do you think the music is coming from? (Score:2)
Some people have mentioned that maybe we will be able to pick and choose our songs. Well, no, that's not the idea. They will sell CD's of lesser known artists or older ones that can't sell records anymore (like the Eagles or Elton John-I am NOT making this up-read the interview).
Look, this may be a good idea for Starbucks. It may get people to spend more money (CD's, plus more coffee). An
Size/Price? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Size/Price? (Score:3, Funny)
An idea that's long overdue (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, I imagine that the music industry would want your copy of the content to be encrypted or otherwise digitally crippled so that you couldn't do what you wanted with it. The real advancement in intellectual property law and consumer rights will come when they offer to let you buy a "no strings attached" license for the content for a buck or two more, which permits you to copy/transform the content as many times/ways as you want, as long as it's for your own non-profit personal use.
Re:An idea that's long overdue (Score:2)
Re:An idea that's long overdue (Score:2)
But seriously why in a kiosk based model would you need to insert anything but your credit card to get the end product.
For that matter why CD - its cheap but its not reliable media. I'd rather see an improved verison of the IPOD. The consumer buys the player and downloads directly onto it what they want to be able to listen to.
The only problem with that approach is that the music industry (or rather than large record companies) hav
Re:An idea that's long overdue (Score:2)
Re:An idea that's long overdue (Score:2)
It works with clothes, cars, houses, electronics, etc.
Right now we have the high cost of a mediocre quality standard (CD) or the cheaper (ie, free, stole, shared, whateveryoucallit) MP3.
Wow, I'm the target market. (Score:2)
We shall have to see. But I doubt it.
Ted
*Free becuase my company pays for it.
Not Innovative (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not Innovative (Score:2)
Re:Not Innovative (Score:3, Funny)
Selection, Quality, Price will make or break this (Score:5, Insightful)
The "NPR-not-MTV listener" they are catering to will have widely varying music tastes, not just the Top 40. How much of a selection will each Starbucks provide? Do they plan to have T1 linkups to a central server? If they work with local storage, then the source tracks will probably be already compressed tracks, affecting quality. I don't see each Starbucks having a half-terabyte RAID array to hold losslessly compressed originals.
Secondly, price. This can be a one-stop-music-shop, catering not just to those who see it and burn/buy a CD on a whim. Since it doesn't offer any of the advantages of iTMS-style music downloads (instant transfer to computers, portables, etc.), they better price it at less than $0.99 a track. A fixed-price option, e.g. 1 80-minute CD for $12-$15 might be very popular.
It's upto Starbucks to use its enormous geographical clout to negotiate a sweetheart deal with the recording industry, and make it as attractive to the customer as possible. Otherwise, with audio-CD only Discmans going the way of the dodo, and the growing popularity of iTMS-like solutions, this scheme will turn out at best to be a novelty.
Re:Selection, Quality, Price will make or break th (Score:2)
1. On half-terabyte RAID arrays: keep in mind that one can fit 800GB in two 3.5" half-height bays these days. Compressed losslessly, that's a hell of a lot of music. (Based on my own experience with FLAC getting songs to 33-40% of their original size, I'd estimate 3510 full CDs.)
2. On the content, Starbucks is already pushing a lot of indie or pseudo-indie jazz, blues, and world content. They've got the content to draw on, a
Re:Selection, Quality, Price will make or break th (Score:2)
But then again, since when have they put up locations where there isn't enough traffic to warrant a proper network connection?
Hell, their almost always close enough to eachother to use mesh networks
Re:Selection, Quality, Price will make or break th (Score:2)
Deal? Bah. (Score:2)
If the record industry wants to pee on them, they need to look outside of the RIAA. There's a booming independent recording industry out there just waiting for something like this.
In the end, set ups like this will wreck the RIAA anyway. The RIAA was set up to sell 40 songs from 20 artists a week on vinyl. There's no way they can
Re:Selection, Quality, Price will make or break th (Score:2)
A 0.5TB RAID array costs less than a candybar or soda vending machine.
Fantastic, if... (Score:5, Interesting)
I hate Starbucks but Schultz and MacKinnon are 100% correct. Here in Baton Rouge we have several shops that purchase, blend and roast their own coffee. Their coffee kicks Starbuck and typically cost less but good music is very attractive. I hate record stores more by a longshot than I hate the home of a second rate $4.00 cup of coffee. A set up like this could make me love them.
Now, if only they have the guts and brains to get away from RIAA label music, they would be my heros.
What's so special about Starbucks? (Score:2, Interesting)
Michael
Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:5, Insightful)
Once upon a time, coffee shops sold coffee, tea, hot cocoa, and other drinkables. A few added various sweet pastries, like croissants, but that was about it. Then along comes the post-expansion Sign O' the Mermaid (it was once a little independent coffee shop, too).
Suddenly, to keep up with the Seattle Menace, coffee shops must now sell all of the above as well as sandwiches, soup, coffee mugs, branded coffee makers, candy, books, gift cards... you get the idea. A small coffee shop that just wants to focus on the core product -- namely, coffee -- has to work hard to establish a niche in the neighborhood or close its doors. Most of them don't want to be multi-specialty retailers, and they shouldn't have to be.
Starbucks now sells so many things that coffee is almost an afterthought. Think that won't affect the quality of the product? Do a taste-test with Starbucks versus one of the other chains out there. (Personal favorite: Diedrich's.) Even the lightest of Starbucks' roasts (most are pretty dark) comes off tasting acidic and rather burnt.
So yeah: make room, if you want, alongside the logo-emblazoned travel mugs and Starbucks brand press-pots for "Mermaid Music Vols. 1" through infinity. I'll walk up the street to my local indie coffee shop and get cuppa joe that doesn't taste like muddy battery acid.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:2)
Me standing in line behind 3 people:
P1: I'd like a [insert complicated espresso drink here]
S.C.: That will be right up.
P2: I would like [insert complicated frozen thingy here]
S.C.: That will be right up, would you like a muffin?
P3: I would like a [insert even more insanely complicated decaffienated steamed something or other here]
P3: Oh, and a lo-fat scone
S.C.: Sure thing [br
Re:Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:2)
What do you do, dry and smoke the coffee?
A few weeks ago they were getting attacked here for making it too strong (they brew it double strength). Slashdotters were accusing them of being drug dealers making it stronger to keep the addicts coming back.
It is the brewed coffee that is stronger; the espresso drinks are mostly milk.
Re:Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:2)
A few weeks ago they were getting attacked here for making it too strong (they brew it double strength). Slashdotters were accusing them of being drug dealers making it stronger to keep the addicts coming back.
Have you tried Peet's Coffee? You'll think Starbucks is weak after that. Peets is a bit strong for me but I know many, many people that like it.
Re:Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:2)
Not by me, Peet's (many less locations than Starbucks) [peets.com] makes coffee that many can not drink, but for us true connes^H^H^H^H adicts, nuthin' beats it.
Also, in my somewhat limited experience, the employees at Peet's are a hell of a lot nicer than their other corporate counterparts.
You are so wrong. (Score:2)
This could be very cool. I don't have any of their mugs. I hate their coffee and think of them like McDonald's. Heck, I think McDonald's has better coffee. So what? I want non-DRM'd full quality custom CDs and I might even buy a cup of coffee while I'm there.
I've bought Starbuck's twice. Once because everyone deserves one chance and once because someone gave
Re:Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:4, Funny)
Another youngun. I remember when gas stations sold gas and drug stores sold drugs. Walmart was some kind of mart you bought walls from and "Starbuck's" was of or relating to the dude from Battlestar Galactica.
Re:Starbucks - the Wal-Mart of Coffee Shops... (Score:2)
Hate to break this to you, but Seattle's Best Coffee is now owned by...Starbucks. It may have kept its original name, but it's no longer a competing chain....
Are these actual CD quality songs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Let these be actual CD quality songs, burned to actual CDs that are playable in any standards-compliant CD player, without DRM or artificial errors or any other insane copy-protection scheme, and I will become a frequent customer. But somehow I don't think the MPAA would allow that. Knowing them, the songs must be crippled in some way, by reduced quality or encryption or both.
Re:Are these actual CD quality songs? (Score:2)
Welcome to CrazyWorld folks!
Re:Are these actual CD quality songs? (Score:2)
Not a chance (Score:4, Insightful)
The three customers.. (Score:5, Funny)
What's stopping the independents? (Score:5, Interesting)
If this model was easy to implement, a lot of them would probably go for it. Maybe an enterprising slashdotter will take this on?
Suprisingly Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
I RTFA expecting to come out of it thinking "gee, brand dilution like this usually means the beginning of the end for companies." Instead, I was surprised to end up thinking what a neat idea this could be, if implemented correctly.
I think I'm probably preaching to the choir here when I say that there are lots of songs out there that I like but so very few full albums that I want to own. Thus, the joy that is P2P and iTMS; combined with a cd burner, all the music I listen to in my car these days is mixed the way I want it to be, and in ways you'll never find on a commercial mix (try finding a CD with Nightwish, E Nomine, and L'Arc en~Ciel on it ^_^). So the idea of a mix cd with actual labelling and even liner notes is naturally fairly appealing. Simply put, it passes the "I'd give it a try" test.
Three major questions that aren't answered in the article, though, which would be major deciding factors for me:
Nevertheless, I think this is a fairly neat idea; the current distribution models for music have left a lot of great stuff behind, so going back to a system where people can get recommendations and such is pretty cool. And the inclusion of the Audiogalaxy-esque "you might also like . . ." feature is just awesome; that was my favorite part of AG, and it's something I sorely miss.
Ignored by the Music Industry? (Score:3, Informative)
I tend to agree with them. This affluent 25- to 50-year-old (32, actually), pretty much only listens to NPR, but they're missing one important fact in their equation...
They're assuming I either already, or probably will, visit StarBucks.
(I've only been to Starbucks twice in my life, and the second time was to give them a 2nd chance. Needless to say: their coffee sucks, costs way too much, and I can brew a better tasting pot for myself right at home.)
Yes, I'm ignored by the Music Industry, but I've found the iTunes [itunes.com] Music Store, and AllOfMP3 [allofmp3.com] to be viable, and more preferable, alternatives.
Re:Ignored by the Music Industry? (Score:2)
Mind you, I don't go into Starbucks often (I own my own espresso machine) but when I do, I consider the music a nice bonus. Starbucks also sells newspapers. You can buy the NY Times at any newsta
Re:Ignored by the Music Industry? (Score:2)
Re:Ignored by the Music Industry? (Score:2)
I don't mind paying for convenience. Especially if it's $0.01/ MB.
Nup, try again (Score:2, Interesting)
starbucks (Score:2)
- pretty good coffee
- reasonable prices
- comfortable atmophere, including good music playing and plenty of room to study
Now add the fact that they are making an attempt to sell decent music to non-britney-lovers, and I really have to hand it to them. They know how to wooo a customer.
Re:starbucks (Score:3, Informative)
Don't get me wrong, I often stop by for a Vite Mocha. And sometimes feel like a sucker, But hey I like the stuff!
Re:starbucks (Score:2)
Ummm, maybe they just really like me there, but I dont think I have ever paid more than 2.50 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks, and the largest size (whatever the italian word for that is) nearly comes in a bucket.
Re:starbucks (Score:2)
Re:starbucks (Score:2)
And I dont go in everyday. Only once or twice a week.
Who uses CDs anymore? (Score:3, Interesting)
They should offer a) 128Kbps CBR MP3 downloads over their wireless connection and b) business card-sized mini-CDs with a copy of the above. Sure both record companies and audiophiles will riot, but that's what 99% of customers want and use. Whoever wants to make money selling music better take notice.
Ignored? No... not ignored... (Score:2)
Ignored isn't the right word.
"Persecuted" is closer...
"Prosecuted", that's it, "prosecuted" is the right word.
Starbuccaneer's (Score:3, Funny)
Screenshots of the Starbuccaneer's concepts available here [heise.de] and here [cdmag.com].
I'm sure Starbucks can buy the licence to use Starbuccaneer's pretty easily.
Soon, all companies will be Starbucks! (Score:3, Funny)
Might this music distribution idea further their aims??
Hail Mermaid!
Crap (Score:2)
Resistance is futile... (Score:2, Insightful)
When I was in high school in the late '80s, I worked at the mall at Record Town, a brand that has been replaced now. Back then they were owned by Trans-World music, and were the penultimate example of the overpriced, middle American record store.
We had this gizmo for a while, before CDs fully supplanted cassettes, and before burnable CDs were de rigeur (I believe Philips was holding the patent, and the record industry cartel was trying to block them from releasing it...sound familiar?). Anyway, it ba
A relaxed environment? (Score:3, Funny)
there was a starbucks downtown (Score:2)
Too bad , it sounded like a neat place to take my cable car double mocha and hang out
Wouldn't those "affluent customers"... (Score:2)
It seems to me that the target demographic are the same sort of people who are slightly ahead of the general population in tech adoption and are also the same people who would eschew CDs as being passe.
I'm sure these guys have done their homework, but this sounds to me like a project that was initiated before the iTunes music store showed that pay-per-download music really could wor
Word! (Score:2)
I'm a 33-year old, relatively affluent, NPR listening (WNKU) Starbuck's customer (I have a First Edition Duetto Card). All I have to say is that I feel quite ignored by commercial radio.
Comments from anyone who's actually been there? (Score:3, Interesting)
The listening kiosks are HP Tablet PCs running (presumably) Windows XP. They are placed throughout the store and default to a selection of albums pulled from that section, i.e. in the blues section you get a handful of blues albums to preview. In the jazz section it's a handful of jazz albums, etc. Just as you would expect.
However, at any listening station you can scan the barcode on just about any CD in the store, and get a playlist of the complete contents of that album. The delay is noticeably longer than waiting for a CD changer, but obviously you have *way* more material to choose from. (Changing from song to song within a given album seems slower than hitting "next" on a CD player, which is a bit annoying, but surely they can fix that.)
There's a sit-down counter where you can build your mix. I was in a hurry and didn't ask the obvious questions, e.g. how much for a custom mix disc, do you get uncompressed or lossy compressed, is there any copy protection. I did notice two Rimage CD sitting in plain view behind the counter.
I've always liked the "smallness" of Hear Music compared to a behemoth like Tower Records. The feel is more like Newbury Comics in Boston (or how they used to be, anyways). The use of technology is a little raw and immature, but in general it seems to work without ruining the small store feel. Just my opinion, of course.
Patent this! Wrote this up in 1997! (Score:2)
It's archived in comments on slashdot (search for it... I'm being lazy!) and I've even received email years later (last year, actually) from someone who saw my idea posted somewhere and wanted some details.
This isn't new... it's certainly not "Starbucks The Innovator", but hey, if someone's letting
Huh? (Score:2)
How yesterday is that? Give me a way to upload to my iPod instead and I'm in.
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2)
Microsoft? Boeing? Amazon? Could you be more specific here?
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2)
And what other "Seattle company" are you referring to? The one with the $40 billion cash reserve [microsoft.com]?
Oh yeah, Starbucks wouldn't want to be like them.
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2)
Andrew
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2)
Just ask that other famous Seattle company about how that's working out for 'em.
Yea, Microsoft is really screwed. They will probably be filing for bankrucpy any day now. Well, just as soon as they blow through 40 billion dollars and lose their monopoly on computer operating systems and office productivity software, and their ISP business falls through, and their
Everyone wins (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, it's a triangle plan. See, all you have to do is open two starbucks, adn get all your employees to open two starbucks. I'll show you some sexy graphs with you holding a lot of money. EVERYONE WINS AND WE ALL RETIRE BY 25
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2)
Starbucks shares hit new high on strong sales [yahoo.com]
5 feel good stocks [fool.com]
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2)
The US Government mistakenly though a tight money poicy was correct.
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I smell desperation... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Starbucks == Borders?? (Score:2)
Why don't they? Maybe because Starbucks has already practically merged with Barnes and Noble?
In a way, they already have... (Score:3, Informative)
Most Barnes and Noble bookstore/dvd/music store mish-mash have a "B&N Cafe" - everything looks like "Starbucks" - but no logos anywhere. The truth is, they are Starbucks, they use Starbucks coffee, etc - they just don't show the brand name anywhere...
I tend to wonder if they are the "generic" form of Starbucks (same as how some store brands are actually name-brand products produced for the store, and sold for less than the name-brand, but otherwise identical)...