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The Media Media Music The Internet

UK To Get Music Download Chart 65

Posted by timothy from the bbc-one-bbc-two-bbc-three dept.
theOtherFool writes "The Observer reported today that BBC Radio One is to broadcast a chart of legally downloaded music. This is a big deal because the station is the broadcaster of pop music for our sceptered isle; it legitimises downloading and seems to show that the industry (or at least the BPI, our equivalent of the RIAA) is starting to accept it, rather than ignoring it and hoping it might go away."
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UK To Get Music Download Chart More

UK To Get Music Download Chart

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  • Industry already accepts it... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dozix007 ( 690662 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @11:52AM (#9606171)
    Radio stations in the U.S. have long used statistics from ("illegal") P2P downloading services to influence what they play. Some have admitted it publicly. I think the industry is far more in bed with the "illegal" downloading services then they, or the RIAA would like to admit.
    • Makes perfect sense. The P2P community says what the public really wants. Now, though, with the P2P monitors, we'll have corporations astroturfing the P2P networks downloading crap to generate hits so that songs/albums will look "popular" on the P2P networks. Truly bizzare the way the world works.
    • The radio industry doesn't particularly care about the recording industry... they just want to play the kind of music people want to hear when they're on-the-go or looking for new artists they haven't heard of yet.
      • The radio industry doesn't particularly care about the recording industry... they just want to play the kind of music people want to hear when they're on-the-go or looking for new artists they haven't heard of yet.

        No; the radio industry (particularly the American radio industry) cares about making money. In the UK, this results in most commercial stations sounding pretty much the same, and from what I've heard, the US is 100 times worse. You sound woefully idealistic.
        • "The radio industry doesn't particularly care about the recording industry..."

          The radio industry would like to be able to not care one way or the other, but financial constraints make that impossible. The recording industry provides their content, and the bigger corporations in the recording industry prepackage it so the radio industry doesn't have to pay for more staff just to winnow through the rest. With their current business model, the radio industry needs not just a recording industry but one control
        • No; the radio industry (particularly the American radio industry) cares about making money. Yes but the BBC is not funded by adverts. It is funded by a licence fee of about 110 per year from anybody with a TV. However radio 1 still sounds the same as any other station during the day. Its only during the evening when they have specialist shows that they are any differant.
    • Radio stations in the U.S. have long used statistics from ("illegal") P2P downloading services to influence what they play. Some have admitted it publicly. I think the industry is far more in bed with the "illegal" downloading services then they, or the RIAA would like to admit.

      They can have their cake and eat it too. This is just plain smart.

  • They can start right here.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Sunday July 04, 2004 @11:53AM (#9606176)
    They can start their list of legally downloadable music right here [furthurnet.com]. I suggest you support the freedom of music!

    Check out Sharing the Groove [sharingthegroove.com] as well for BitTorrent downloads of Spring tours!

    • Creative Commons hit parade? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Creative Commons hit parade? Or a popularity rating for music licensed as free? By this I mean is there any "Free music hit chart" or "By Category chart" on a website anywhere?

      Of course this would be much harder to implement when compared to the manipulated radio hit charts influenced by the "Big Music" corporations, but it would be really nice to know this information.

      As it is, I find it extremely difficult to find good music on the 'net as these independant groups just don't have the resources to to buy
  • The big music companies keep thinking they can screw us over, but finally, they have internet radio, and the non-indie stuff is swamped with adverts to cover the cost of the music. It's killer to know that they can do this kinda thing over the pond, let's bring it to the states!

  • The big question is.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fozzmeister ( 160968 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @12:03PM (#9606256) Homepage
    ...why are they not making a chart of legal FREE downloads? The BBC _should_ have no comercial intrest in labels at all, and they should have no influence over it because it's funded by the british public. Radio 1(& 2 for older people) have a huge percentage of the listeners here (almost certainly way over 50%, infact pretty much everything non-BBC is local/regional radio).

    If they did this and were still broadcasting quality it could be amazing.
    • Because I don't think there's any third-party service that can come up with reliable numbers of downloads of free songs... at least with iTunes or Napster 2.0 there's a man in the middle keeping a score.

      It'd also mean that the broadcasters would have to do the work of deciding who's listenable and who's not. Then again, Simon Cowell does Pop Idol over there in the same format as American Idol here.
      • Radio 1 itself (under Beeb?)? BT had a music download service, I'm sure if they are still running it they'd be more than happy to lend a hand. OK this one prolly aint free but its bound to be something around the early mp3.com rates. your not telling me that type of exposur even on very low profit margins isnt going to be incredibly successful

    • Re:The big question is.... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by KombuchaGuy ( 752406 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @12:39PM (#9606496)
      BBC Radio 1 is shocking in terms of commercial interests. They give heavy control of their rap and hip-hop output to the DJ Tim Westwood who has a contract with Def Jam records and shows very clear bias towards their artists see here for a random recent one [bbc.co.uk] worth noting Roc-A-Fella and Def Jam are one and the same.
    • The charts are a commercial entity. Radio One broadcasts them but the Official UK Chart Company Ltd runs the chart as it is.
      The BBC certainly have no commercial interest in the charts as they make no money from the broadcast.
      Rather someone might wish to complain that the OUCC has a commercial interest in a BBC broadcast.

  • Why doesn't Clear Channel play unsigned artists? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Sunday July 04, 2004 @12:10PM (#9606305)
    Here's one way to think about a mega-company...

    Clear Channel owns tons of radio stations. Clear Channel also operates a concert promotion arm as well. Concert singers don't exactly need album sales as much as they need radio play...

    So maybe CC should get into the business of finding artists and signing them to a concert deal before they even have a recording deal. Give them a couple recording sessions to create a few radio-ready singles... and off they go. CC can make money with no need for the CD to be in wide release. In fact, give the MP3s away... it just serves to promote the artist's concerts.

  • The real online music chart (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RussGarrett ( 90459 ) <russ.garrett@co@uk> on Sunday July 04, 2004 @12:23PM (#9606389) Homepage

    OK, so this is a bit of a shameless plug, but as far as we know, ours is the only chart which actually represents what users are listening to. We were quite interested to see this news in the papers on Tuesday.

    The Audioscrobbler Charts [audioscrobbler.com] show what people are actually listening to - not what they're illegally downloading, not what they're buying, but what they're actually playing.

    So yeah, our demographic is quite skewed, and we're having trouble keeping up with current load, but we're working hard on both of those things this summer.

    • I wouldn't say it's the ONLY chart that represents what users are listening to. ;) Seriously though, I do like it a lot how you track artist/song movement over time. Do you guys normalize for a changing number of users in the Audioscrobbler user base?
      • Whoops, I forgot about you ;). We basically only chart the number of unique users playing a specific song/artist per week, and then look for the differences in that.

        What I want to know is why Radiohead is so popular...
        • Jeeze, not even on your radar! Oh well, better to stay covert till I have something big.

          As far as I can tell Radiohead is like the lowest common denominator for hipsters/mp3-philes. You've got to at least have them in your collection. Personally, I'm not a huge fan but they're still in my collection.
  • I dont see how its a big deal, 'legal paid for downloads' (well the ones where the record label gets a cut) isnt exactly going against the industry, and whats this about the BPS allowing them to show this? is it their property or something? What would be a big deal would be an accurate chart of illigal downloads (or even just unpaid).

  • Boy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by elFarto the 2nd ( 709099 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @12:29PM (#9606425)

    British Phonographic Society

    Boy did I read that wrong the first time.

    Regards
    elFarto

  • Will be interesting (Score:4, Interesting)

    by skinfitz ( 564041 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @12:53PM (#9606587) Journal
    To see how this affects the crap that the music industry produces.

    Imagine it if the chart is not tampered with (not going to happen really is it) - we will see lots of people purchasing old songs I think rather than buying millions of copies of the latest manufactured crap.

    I wonder how they will fiddle the chart? Repeated downloads by representatives of an artist or record company could be tracked by account / IP etc.

    It will be interesting to see how the content produced by the industry alters as a result of better stats. I wonder if they will start data mining the songs to see what does and doesnt work and what people buy.

  • I take issue (Score:3, Informative)

    by jb.hl.com ( 782137 ) <joe@[ ]-baldwin.net ['joe' in gap]> on Sunday July 04, 2004 @01:01PM (#9606626) Homepage Journal
    the broadcaster of pop music for our sceptered isle

    I fail to believe that this poster is British. We have lots [heart1062.co.uk] of [capitalfm.co.uk] pop music stations.

    • Re:I take issue (Score:3, Informative)

      by The Dark P ( 545554 )
      ... In London
      Radio 1 is the only National pop music radio station.
      • Virgin Radio broadcasts to the UK and Ireland on 1215 AM/MW
        • Yes. The AM/MW is the key. Non FM stations are only suitable for talk radio. Of course, it is available on DAB now as well, but I find the BBC stations are the only ones with listenable quality in my little rural backwater; all the rest sound like low bandwidth RealAudio streams with my kitchen worktop DAB tuner.

          I still resort to Freeview for decent quality radio (at last we can get Jazz FM - I never used to be able to get it, no matter how hard I twiddled them), but there's still a very sparse choice of
    • Britain extends [aberystwyth-online.co.uk] beyond [penzance.co.uk] Greater [angusanddundee.co.uk] London. Radio 1 is national, Capital and Heart are local.

  • Great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Xargle ( 165143 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @01:17PM (#9606714)
    So it'll now be even cheaper and easier for record promoters to bulk buy singles to up their chart positions like they regularly do with existing formats.

  • Downloads (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gilesjuk ( 604902 ) <<giles.jones> <at> <zen.co.uk>> on Sunday July 04, 2004 @01:28PM (#9606776)
    They wanted illegal downloads to go away. I don't the industry wants to kill off downloads in general. It actually saves them money since it's on demand sales, they don't have to try and guess how many copies to produce and have stocks sitting around on shelves.

    What they really wanted though was to invent all the technology themselves and release it with a big "wow", trouble is others got there first and it looks like they are just jumping on the bandwagon.

  • BBC has some nice practices (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bigberk ( 547360 ) <bigberk@users.pc9.org> on Sunday July 04, 2004 @03:25PM (#9607595)
    Now if they could also bring back the ogg vorbis audio streams [bbc.co.uk] they were experimenting with at one point, I would be awfully happy. At the moment there is no choice but to use the proprietary Real Audio, and even though there is a good player for UNIX [real.com] it still costs the BBC money, when they could go the free route with ogg vorbis and make customers happier too!

  • Radio 1 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DJNW ( 212838 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @03:57PM (#9607848) Homepage
    the station is the broadcaster of pop music for our sceptered isle
    Bollocks is it! Radio 1 is the redheaded-inbred-bastard-stepchild of the BBC radio family. Radio 2 OWNS it in every way.
    1)Radio 2's management isn't dumb enough to fire the Radio Caroline [radiocaroline.co.uk] DJ's Infact, they've picked a few of 'em up over the years.
    2)Radio 2's got Steve Wright
    3)Radio 2 has managed to retain a single GOOD (i.e. most listened-to) morning presenter(Terry Wogan), unlike the series of gibbering retards that 1 has gone through (Chris Evans etc etc)
    4)Radio 1's premier retard, Chris "Chrispy Boils" Moyles is so untalented that no only does he have to surround himself with an entourage of syncophants in order to produce a single show's worth of content, but he's been knows to steal content used by Ian Collins, the Talk Radio presenter, who, coincidentally, happens to be doing his show about the time that Moyles would be going to work.
    5)Radio 2 has Waay better content. Aside from a wider range of better music than 1, 2 also has the wonder that is Jammin [bbc.co.uk], It's Been A Bad Week and the like.
    6)When I spend all day listening to 2, I don't hear the same song more than once per-presenter, and even then it's "packed" in a wide variety of different stuff. 1 on the other hand, when I have been forced to listen to it, is to repetitive that I could quite literally set my clock by it - Approx 5 PM Thursday, "handbags and gladrags", for the 4/5th time that day.(This is a year or so ago mind, schedules will have changed)

    In summation, just 'cos it broadcasts the charts doesn't make 1 better by any means. It's the station of Bass-tards, white-kids-who-wanna-be-ghetto, people who are so mortally brain damaged to think Chris Moyles is funny and 40 year old who think they're 25 (Yes, You! My Ex-Employer! This Means You, you Faith-Hill Listening PRAT!)
    The only things Radio 1 broadcasts to our "sceptered isle" is FAR, FAR TOO MANY BASS FREQUENCIES (is your colon vibrating yet?), the inane ravings of presenters so un-talented that no other station would touch them with a bargepole and so much Forced-Bling-Culture even this highly ecclectic listener feels like slitting my wrists to get away from it. (Nothing against people who Bling naturally, but people who put it on as a show shoud be pushed through a cheesewire mesh arse-first.)

    Oh yeah, and in case anyone thinks of replying along the lines of "shuttup kid", I remember when this was all fie....er....when radio 5 played music!

    • Re:Radio 1 (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Radio 2 - pah! Radio 4 [bbc.co.uk] rules. Get down to the Ambridge [bbc.co.uk] crew.

      • Re:Radio 1 (Score:1, Interesting)

        by kamawell ( 587003 )
        Agreed (though The Archers has gone downhill in recent years.) IMHO Radio 4 alone justifies the BBC licence fee, especially with the Listen Again feature on the website.

    • Re:Radio 1 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @05:25PM (#9608418) Homepage Journal
      Time to extract your head from your Corrs album ridden middle manager Vauxhall Vectra company car and face facts.

      Radio 2's management isn't dumb enough to fire the Radio Caroline DJ's Infact, they've picked a few of 'em up over the years

      Radio 1 is supposed to represent what's new or what's cutting edge. Crusties like Tony Blackburn would hardly help this cause these days. Even the middle-aged humorists of Mark and Lard have been chucked off.

      Radio 2's got Steve Wright

      And? Steve Wright is ideal for Radio 2's audience, Radio 1 is not a middle aged radio station for people who wear slippers.

      Radio 2 has Waay better content. Aside from a wider range of better music than 1, 2 also has the wonder that is Jammin, It's Been A Bad Week and the like.

      The rest of your arguments are sure hallmarks of someone who has never listened to Radio 1 except for 9am - 5pm.

      Radio 1's content variety is way beyond that of Radio 2. Even if you took John Peel's shows on their own, there's a bigger variety of music than Radio 2 will play all week. Radio 1 covers jazz very extensively, with Gilles Peterson. Peel covers everything from soul and early 20th century 78s to jungle and thrash metal. The Radio 1 Rock Show covers the full rock gamut. Westwood, while annoying, covers rap and hip-hop. Indian music (bhangra, etc) is well covered by Friction and Nihal. Grooverider, Fergie and the DJ crews cover trance, techno and drum'n'bass.

      Admittedly, Radio 2 does have good shows where the DJ is allowed to cut loose on his own CD collection, and fun to listen to they are.. but it's absurd to claim Radio 2 has a wider selection of music than Radio 1. The only genre Radio 1 is missing is classical, and we have the fine Radio 3 or Classic FM for that!

      Radio 2 is a safe outpost for those who don't want their heads done in by Radio 1's dreckish pop and R&B output all day, and who want safe pedestrian inoffensive humour from people closer to their own age. Radio 2 is also the king of daytime adult contemporary, and generic MOR (The Corrs, Norah Jones, Will Young).. and it's good at it.. but it ain't variety.
      • Time to extract your head from your Corrs album ridden middle manager Vauxhall Vectra company car and face facts.
        1) It's an astra (2L Turbo thanks - I toast rice-boys at traffic lights)
        2)It's populated with the likes of My ruin [myruin.com], Led Zepplin, ELO, Lacuna Coil [lacunacoil.it] Wendy Stark and all sorts of other stuff.
        3)Middle manager I am not...Astrophysics student, as a matter of fact.

        I'll admit I went a bit over the top there, but that rant had been brewing for a year or two, and the opportunity was just ripe for the taki
        • Besides, as you pointed out yourself, half of 1's programing is dreck.

          More than half of what's on BBC TV is dreck too, but that doesn't stop me watching the good bits!

          Also... another genre they're missing: comedy.

          Well, yeah, the whole chat thing. That said, Radio 1 did play all of Chris Morris's Jam back in the day, although that sort of programming has pretty much gone now. And (I'll get booed for this, I know) I actually enjoy Chris Moyles.

          nothing on 2 that'll make you reach for the straight-razor
    • You are over 40 and I claim my five pounds.
    • Radio 2 has managed to retain a single GOOD (i.e. most listened-to) morning presenter(Terry Wogan)

      But his deference is... and his laughter is...

    • 6 Music all the way. f00.

      Of course, I still hope to see John Peel let loose as a music director. Just for a week.

    • I knew I was getting old when I heard Radio 2 playing Motorhead's Ace of Spades...

  • Submitter is confused? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fondue ( 244902 ) on Sunday July 04, 2004 @05:26PM (#9608427)
    "This is a big deal because the station is the broadcaster of pop music for our sceptered isle; it legitimises downloading and seems to show that the industry (or at least the BPI, our equivalent of the RIAA) is starting to accept it, rather than ignoring it and hoping it might go away."

    Um, presumably this initiative is backed to the hilt by the BPI. It's a chart of *legal* (as in, the recording industry gets a cut) downloads. It's another of their completely ineffectual attempts to promote the over-priced and under-featured UK online music stores.

  • And all because ... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Alby ( 755413 )
    ... of the unique way the BBC is funded. By you, the license payer.

    I am very happy to pay my TV license fee to fund the BBC. Long live the BBC!

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