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InfoWorld 2004 Salary Survey Results

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the ka-ching dept.

Businesses 320

tverbeek writes "InfoWorld has released the results of their Salary Survey for 2004 [pdf], and in the intro they declare that there's less bad news and more optimism, as IT budgets and salaries in particular are starting to creep back up. So now we get to witness the curious phenomenon of Lake Anti-Wobegone, as all the techies we hear from complain that their salaries are still below 'average'."

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Listing? (4, Funny)

Mz6 (741941) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462266)

Is there a listing of the companies that they talked to? This way I can make my map of where to grab their job applications from.

Re:Listing? (2, Insightful)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462678)

I can't get through to the page, but typically the reason why they *don't* list companies is because workers tend to fill out the survey themselves (and don't like to list their companies).

Very rarely will an HR person come around and say "here's where our company stands when handing out salaries". The only time most do is when they've just been given a much larger payroll to work with and they have holes in key positions.

I know when I fill out these surveys, I don't list my company. I'd rather the survey stay semi-anonymous.

Jobserve (5, Informative)

mirko (198274) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462272)

A good European observatory is Jobserve [jobserve.com] where I have been able to consider the falling then re-growing number of job offer during the last 3 years.

Re:Jobserve (1)

caluml (551744) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462482)

I had a script that asked for "linux" jobs every 6 hours, and plotted it. It dips sharply for New Year obviously. Unfortunately, I've moved house, and I don't have a public IP address any more. I'd think twice before posting a link anyway! :)

ACWorld 2004 Campaign Results (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462278)

Dean loses

*_d_e_a_n_s_e_x_*_d_e_a_n_s_e_x_*_d_e_a_n_s_e_x_*_
d_______________________________________________d_ _
e_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______e_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
n|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____n_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
d____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____d_ _
e______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____e_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
n_______/\_|___C_____)/YAARRR\_(_____>__|_/_____n_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)RRRRRRR|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\RRRGGH/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
d____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_d_ _
e___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_e_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
n___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|n_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_d_e_a_n_s_e_x_*_d_e_a_n_s_e_x_*_d_e_a_n_s_e_x_*_


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Impotent Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Hello this is the Web Speaking (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462285)


we speak HTML and plain text, PDF is neither

Cry me a river (5, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462288)

It's no surprise. When I was at college, it seemed half the people in my class wanted to get into IT just to earn lots of money. They saw how much a programmer could make. None of them had a love of the subject. They all became web monkeys.

Then there were suddenly a lot of people with computer skills.

Surprise surprise, the salaries went down. It's all about supply and demand.

Meanwhile, those of us with a love of the subject have the actual deeper understanding of computers that allow us to command a decent salary.

More power to you. (4, Interesting)

MisanthropicProgram (763655) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462399)

I started out loving the IT field. Gradually, it was ripped out of me by the typical working conditions: rediculous deadlines, long hours, managers who didn't have a clue, being called in the middle of the night, etc ....
It wasn't until the late 90's that I thought that I was being paid almost enough to deal with that horseshit. I know there's a few of you folks out there that thought we were overpaid. I guess that's where the system works. I felt I was underpaid - so I left. You feel you're being paid adaquately - so you stay. I honestly hope that enough people like me leave to give you guys a decent salary again. Because even if pay goes back up to the year 2000 level, I'm still not coming back.

Re:More power to you. (5, Insightful)

tha_mink (518151) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462442)

I started out loving the IT field. Gradually, it was ripped out of me by the typical working conditions: rediculous deadlines, long hours, managers who didn't have a clue, being called in the middle of the night, etc .... It wasn't until the late 90's that I thought that I was being paid almost enough to deal with that horseshit. I know there's a few of you folks out there that thought we were overpaid. I guess that's where the system works. I felt I was underpaid - so I left. You feel you're being paid adaquately - so you stay. I honestly hope that enough people like me leave to give you guys a decent salary again. Because even if pay goes back up to the year 2000 level, I'm still not coming back.

I came into the field when I got tired of digging ditches and sweating my balls off for a living at $10/hr shortly after high school. Talk about being underpaid...I'll take rediculous deadlines and long (air conditioned) hours, and clueless managers in the IT field over the same conditions (sans air conditioning) working in a shitass labor job EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. Working conditions can be shitty in any field. I don't expect to make millions in the IT field but it's better that digging a fucking hole for shizel.

Re:More power to you. (0, Offtopic)

Icekold (572802) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462518)

OK, time to be a troll, apologies in advance, however it's ridiculous, not rediculous.

Do you guys actually pronounce it rediculous in your part of the world?

Re:More power to you. (-1, Offtopic)

mekkab (133181) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462582)

Do you guys actually pronounce it rediculous in your part of the world?


sadly enough, yes. Mostly for extreme emphasis ( emphasising the first two syllables, as opposed to the second one).

Its to the point where I'm taken to emphasizing the THIRD syllable (in a nudge-nudge-wink-wink way) simply to bang it into my skull that its "i" and not "e." Sad.

And don't get me started on the word "ignoramus"- in high school I heard a band mispronounce the 'a' on purpose ( more like a "baaaaaah" than "rain") on purpose (Infectious Grooves), thought it was funny, started doing it, and now I'm all jacked.

I hate pronunciation! ;)

Re:Cry me a river (1)

cavemanf16 (303184) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462402)

I agree. Also, all the 'techie' complainers who lost their jobs and are having difficulty finding a new one obviously have plenty of time on their hands to complain on weblogs like Slashdot about the low salaries and lack of jobs out there. I know I probably would if I were in their position...

Re:Cry me a river (1)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462407)

late 1999 / begin 2000 companies hired alot of IT people, to help fix/discover/manage y2k-bugs. After that they found out that all these people were actually not needed anymore, but couldn't so easily be fired. That's why IT jobs in here are finally becoming a little more available. But the salaries? For every IT position, there's at least 10 people qualified for it. Companies know this, so what they do is hire the youngest/cheapest person. And so what if that person doesn't have the skills? Simply put him/her on a course.

Re:Cry me a river (1)

GuyinVA (707456) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462425)

Then there are the slightly lucky ones that get on the .com bandwagon, get laid off then get a decent paying job with a government contractor because we know someone in the IT department. And mean while, put that hard earned money into a savings account so that one day we can open up a business of our own. But that doesn't happen, because we then meet the girl of our dreams, get married, buy a house, and have kids...

Re:Cry me a river (2, Insightful)

AviLazar (741826) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462504)

Thats why Comp Sci departments have some of the highest attrition rates (and low entry rates). People generally take 1 semester of C and then regret it. If someone can actually stick through a Comp Sci program, with all the coding (not be bored AND understand it), then they deserve to get the job and make the appropriate salary.
For everything (even health care) there are good times and bad times. We just happen to be in a bad time. i.e. Health care will see the bad times when population rates drop (either after some massive plague, or if more govt's impose laws on reproduction).
And there is nothing wrong with being a web monkey - as a part-part time job during college (and even on the occasion now) it has helped make me some good extra cash (about 10k a year) :)

Re:Cry me a river (4, Funny)

scrod98 (609124) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462613)

True story:

Actually saw two girls change their major from Computer Science after the first test in calculus. They switched to a major that had no math: Drama.

I'll bet mom and dad were proud.

Re:Cry me a river (1)

stecoop (759508) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462616)

I don't quite see the correlation to a plague and healthcare. Wouldn't you think that that a plague would cause health care to boom and actually move money away from said web monkey? Lets see, I could buy Internet access for a year or go to the doctor to try treat/prevent a plague - which would you choose?

Re:Cry me a river (-1, Flamebait)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462532)

If you were fired tomorrow for cheap Asian programmers, you'd happily join them in whining.

Re:Cry me a river (3, Insightful)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462598)

While I agree with the Pragmatic Programmers and believe you should care about your craft I think you are simplifying things somewhat here.

Taking a job because you think you can make a living from it is not a bad thing. Millions of people earn a living doing things they dont particularly care for, that a large part of the reason its called work and not playtime or doing what I enjoy time. If you dont like it you can change career. Development is a job, not a divine calling.

There were suddenly lots of people with computer skills available because the technology sector took a major dive, not because Jonny and Mary took Comp Sci 101. Obviously then it becomes an employers market and they are going to pay the minimum possible so lower salaries. Outsourcing also help drive salaries down by allowing empoyers to offer take it or leave it terms. Gotta expect that in a free market given the preceding conditions.

I know several guys who make good money and dont give a crap about coding, they just happen to be quite talented and adopt a professional attitude. I find dealing with them quite easy because they tend to focus on getting the job done properly rather than arguing over ultimately irrelevant minutae as many, shall I say some more 'loving' developers do. Its more about ability than love.

Re:Cry me a river (1)

pyota (130268) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462754)

your melodrama and condescension exude a sense of entitlement which has no place in the today's epoch of advanced capitalism. the bottom line is your credentials, experience and toolset, outside of those combined factors nobody in the real world gives a shit about your love of the subject.

it's wrong to assume people who feel the 'love' have a deeper understanding. understanding is a function of intelligence, motivation (even money), and experience.

Re:Cry me a river (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462785)

So why am I still employed and at a higher salary than ever before?

put on your slashdotting helmet, gentlemen (5, Funny)

HungWeiLo (250320) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462290)

A 3.4MB PDF file? On Slashdot? Do you not like them or something?

never had a chance (1)

Arngautr (745196) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462595)

poor little website, never had a chance...

Re:put on your slashdotting helmet, gentlemen (5, Informative)

krails (7812) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462726)

Seriously... especially when we have an HTML version of the survey HERE [infoworld.com] . =)

Kevin Railsback
IT Manager
InfoWorld Media Group, Inc.

Mod parent up.. (1)

camusflage (65105) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462803)

Even though the HTML version is coming through so damned slow, you've got to give the guy who's responsible for the smoking crater that used to be a web server props for posting the alternate link.

Dilbert (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462292)

Somewhat relevant is today's dilbert [dilbert.com]

Re:Dilbert (1)

mahdi13 (660205) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462649)

Wow, that strip is a mirror of my workplace!

Profits are up, but you're still going to get JACK for all your effort!

Back in my day (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462294)

Back in my day, we didn't get raises. We got dirt. And we liked it. Dirt allowed us to build dirt houses, dirt garages, and make dirt pies. We could even get the horses to run on dirt. The damn hard thing was getting those gosh derned horseless carriages to run on dirt. They aaaalways gave us problems.

So you young ones should be glad you get money. Cause you never know when they'll pay in dirt again!

Re:Back in my day (2, Funny)

keoghp (457883) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462348)

You were lucky.
We used to live in a shoebox....

Don't you just love Monty Pyhon. It it made it a programming language.

Re:Back in my day (-1, Offtopic)

DarthApoc (696826) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462418)

That was modded intresting? ;) Come on mods, s/he was anonymous, you COULD mod him/her funny instead ;) (i really HOPE it was a joke at least) ;)

reminds me of a Weird Al song (1)

jbellis (142590) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462480)

"When I was your age"

go purchase it legally from itunes or something :)

Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462538)


I don't know about you, but I'd love to hit paydirt!

Re:Back in my day (1)

swb (14022) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462635)

How often did you find yourself going up the dirt road?

Gah, I wish I could *afford* some dirt! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462791)

Here in San Diego, dirt is so expensive [signonsandiego.com] that they pay us with checks. I made over $80K last year, but can't afford more than this miserable little apartment...

Who is complaining? (3, Insightful)

Ignignot (782335) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462299)

all the techies we hear from complain that their salaries are still below 'average'. First off, who is going to complain because they are making too much? Sometimes the minority is much more vocal than the majority *cough* christian fundamentalists *cough*. It is human nature to complain.

Re:Who is complaining? (-1, Troll)

WyerByter (727074) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462349)

Don't you mean *cough* atheists *cough* or *cough* ACLU *cough*.

Re:Who is complaining? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462552)

Idiot, he meant that while there are a lot of Christians, mostly the only vocal ones are the fundamentalists w/ extreme views. Therefore it seems like most Christians have extreme views, and it gets a bad name, kind of like the Linux community. The parallels are uncanny.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... (0, Offtopic)

mosel-saar-ruwer (732341) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462575)


Christian Fundamentalists are about the most quiet, reserved, introspective people the world has ever known.

Course, you wouldn't know that if all you heard about them was what the lamestream media told you, but hey: That's the way things have always been, and the way things will always be...

Re:Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462809)

You wouldn't know it from all the "Fundamentalists" churches that send me junk mail even after I have called and told them I do not want their crap. But I belive that is what the parent is saying. The actions of the few refelct the publics belive in the many. Which is why I've taken to mailing back 10 Why God does not exist books back to each church that mails me a Does god exist book.

Re:Who is complaining? (1)

thebra (707939) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462670)

No one is happy with their salary, or you shouldn't be. You should always be working harder to make more money. The RIAA is proof of this, they aren't happy with their millions, they want more. What is your point?

Re:Who is complaining? (0, Offtopic)

PetoskeyGuy (648788) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462685)

Are Christian Fundamentalists anything like Islamic Extremists?

Stoning (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462310)

Its like when you go to school and there is this one major chinese guy that gets all the good grades and doesn't drink a lick of beer or have a social life.

For tech salaries, usually BUT NOT ALWAYS, the chinese guy gets all the money, because he's willing to be there at work 80hrs a week.

If any of you read at all (OTHER than slashdot), you may remember a story called 'The Lottery'. If not, go read it. It will kind of give you a perspective on how demographics of pay works.

Re:Stoning (1)

not_a_product_id (604278) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462420)

You mean this one [The Lottery] [amazon.com] ?

Is it pathetic that I only knew that cause it's mentioned in The Simpsons? I think it's the one where Kent Brockman wins big. Homer chucks it on the fire when the news (Kent) mentions the book has nothing to do with the lotto.

Re:Stoning (1)

deuterium (96874) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462590)

It's not actually a full size book, but a short story. I remember reading it in 6th grade as part of a "special" reading program my school had entered me in. It was a pretty disturbing story to read when I was 11 years old, what with small town residents gleefully stoning a girl to death in superstitious hopes of improving their fortunes. I also remember thinking that Shirley Jackson was one of the cuter authors pictured in the book of short stories.

Re:Stoning (1)

cjjjer (530715) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462684)

You can read it here The Lottery [k12.ny.us] if you want to bring back some old memories.

The lottery? (3, Interesting)

e1618978 (598967) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462459)

Can you be a little more useful in your references please? There is no way that we are going to be able to do a google search on "The Lottery" and figure out what the heck you are talking about. Also, I find your "chinese guy" reference a little offensive. Not only that, but in my experience the people (chinese or not) who work 80 hours per week all the time are not particularly more productive than the 40-50 hour people - and they don't get higher salaries as far as I can see. I think that we have an unusual spread of salaries now, because anyone who made it through the massive layoffs still has the "boom time/stop the hiring raids from competitors" salary, which is 2x the salary of everybody else. At least it is like that in telecom.

It's called cultural literacy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462683)

See subject.

Sigh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462311)

My salary is below average.

Page 9 (3, Insightful)

Mz6 (741941) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462317)

Ok.. I am not sure what to think by the graphs, but is it a good thing or bad thing that the majority of the IT Budget pie, as asked to managers, is "I don't know"? On a lighter note, it did drop 3% points from 03 to 04.

This is why my company is changing their scale.. (4, Interesting)

dogas (312359) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462324)

..because it looks too much like the scale that salary.com uses.

Right now, I'm a "software engineer III" according to my company and salary.com. But according to salary.com, I'm making $20k less than the median salary. My company's solution? Change their scale. Now there's like 8 levels and it doesn't match up at all. Maybe they're hoping that the mass exodus will stop?

Re:This is why my company is changing their scale. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462346)

So.. you'll now be making $20,000 more than?

Re:This is why my company is changing their scale. (2, Insightful)

Bellyflop (681305) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462460)

I'm seeing this same sort of thing happen at a lot of firms. Many firms seem to be taking the attitude of "Well, given how bad the economy is, you're lucky to have this." But the truth, at least in my area, is the economy isn't bad. There are well paying opportunities out there. So the race for the door continues...

But let's not forget, they hire "only the best"! Surely the best will work under their conditions, right? Right? Right?

Re:This is why my company is changing their scale. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462630)

If you are underpaid by more than say 10%, leaving is your best option.

I thought I was underpaid some 8-9 years ago, and did just that. In 4 years I almost tripled my income.

Google Cache (4, Informative)

me98411 (754004) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462331)

Link to Google cache [64.233.167.104] of the Salary Survey file.

Out Sourcing (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462336)

I don't have a job it went to India you insensitve clod.

Lake Anti-Wobegone (1)

psergiu (67614) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462347)

Where is this lake mentioned in the article ? A Google search reveals nothing.

Make that Anti-(Lake Wobegon) (5, Informative)

flicken (182650) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462446)

This is a reference to the mythical Lake Wobegone of Garisson Keillor, where "all the children are above average". In this case, all people think their salaries are *below* average, thus making it the opposite--or an Anti-(Lake Wobegone).

See this study on the Lake Wobegone effect [heinemann.com] (pdf).

Re:Lake Anti-Wobegone (3, Informative)

tgeerts (556153) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462502)

Lake Wobegone is where everything is above average.

Salaries (2, Interesting)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462359)

Since it's a 3.4MB PDF that I'll never get to read, maybe someone could answer a question for me:
Is the increase in the average salary for an IT worker, or the average IT worker's salary? In other words, does this count the ones who are unemployed or doing burger duty at Mickie Dees? It's great that salaries are going up, but is employment?

Re:Salaries (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Cowtard (573891) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462414)

If you're unemployed or a burger flipper, you're no longer an IT worker. I'm not a "Student Crew Member" at the moment just because I used to do that but now I'm in a different job. Once your job in that field goes away and you change to something else you can't claim it as your job description.

Re:Salaries (1)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462625)

Okay, so there are fewer people in the field and money returning to it, so it's no suprise that salaries are going up.

Damn... (1)

jcostantino (585892) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462360)

Where do I go to find these jobs? After my review I'll be making $40k a year and I'm a friggin department head.

Granted the only one in my department is me but I support 45 people and their computers!

Re:Damn... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462535)

Get out of academia if you want mo' money.

Re:Damn... (1)

vuke69 (450194) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462796)

What the hell are you complaining about. You only support 45 users and you are bitching about making $40k? I am the only System/Network administrator for 250 users, in 6 locations spread out across the us. And I only make $45k.

Average (2)

rnicey (315158) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462367)

Well if they all claim that they're below average we know it's not true.

In this ever shrinking world people and skills are more a tradable commodity than ever before. How hard you work no longer has much to do with it, how much you can produce is. Hardly a newsflash, been going that way forever. But some still think they _should_ be making more money.

Slashdotted already ... (2, Informative)

dennison_uy (313760) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462386)

Straight from Google's cache [google.com]

Wondering....salaries of outsourcees? (5, Interesting)

FerretFrottage (714136) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462396)

How come we never see salary surveys of salary surveyors? Do they not want us to know how little or how much they make? Maybe they are making 6+ figures and just don't want us to know about it so they have they don't have any competition.

Anyway...no big surprise that IT related salaries slide a bunch the past few years. Supply and demand. There are a bunch of IT workers looking for jobs and it has been a "buyers" market, not like in the late 90's.

What I wonder is how do salary trends here [US] compare to those jobs that have been outsourced? Did the outsourcees salary increase/decrease/stay flat? Just wondering if there is any connection between the two.

Or... you can go to Iraq and make $500-$1000/day (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462427)

tax free, last I heard. And they'll add the label "Contractor" or "Consultant" for free.

Re:Or... you can go to Iraq and make $500-$1000/da (2, Insightful)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462636)

The bullets fired at your car and the car bombs are free of charge too.

Missing datas (0)

andrej73 (779231) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462440)

What about Bill Gates salary?

Re:Missing datas (0, Offtopic)

CrazyTalk (662055) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462646)

I think thats whats throwing off the curve, making salaries to high. Combine Bill Gates salary with the average shmo making 40k/yr (less if you work for a University or government), and you'll raise the average to the 80-100k that we are seeing!

Re:Missing datas (1)

Bellyflop (681305) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462757)

Bill gates made $865k last year. Far far below the average wall street tycoon. Of course, most of his money comes from selling stock...

Companies? (3, Interesting)

NeoFunk (654048) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462441)

This survey really means nothing to me unless I can at least see a list of the companies that they surveyed. Pay is different in different areas of the country, and for good reason.

Anecdotally, the results look quite high to me. Maybe they surveyed companies where the cost of living is really high (silicon valley, etc.) I'm from the midwest, so I don't really expect to see numbers like this around here, and I don't.

Re:Companies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462615)

The survey results seem a bit low for many positions compared to salaries in the DC area. Consider going to one of the salary calculators available on Moving websites to figure out a localized salary. Only problem might be figuring out where to put the initial location.

Re:Companies? (1)

z-thoughts (716174) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462631)

I'd like to know where this survey was taken as well. I'm a Web Developer making less than half their claim of $60,869 a year. I work in Austin Texas, one of the more tech savvy citys with a large IT sector. I know those aren't the rates going here in our "little silicon valley."

less people = higher pay? (1)

DustyShadow (691635) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462444)

I suspect that since a lot of companies had either layoffs or less hirings, there are less people for them to pay. Therefore, those who they kept can get a little extra money cause there is less waste on the less talented group of people.

Of course it's below average... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462451)

Stands to reason: Half of us will receive below average compensation. The other half will be above. And then there's that one guy who will be making precisely average wages.

Sysadmin? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462461)

OK, so where does a sysadmin (more specifically Unix sysadmin) fall under? It's definately not helpdesk. ISIT technology analyst?

Re:Sysadmin? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462533)

Unix Sysadmin falls somewhere between janitor and shaman. As long as they continue to shove the ocassional pizza under your door, you ARE being justly compensated... on average.

"It's a nasty job, but somebody said I had to do it."

50% are never gonna be happy! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462462)

Given that the reported figures are averages, I guarantee that 50% of people will be bitching! The other 50% will be bragging.

Remember, people, average is only a line that everybody deviates from! Nobody is average.

Re:50% are never gonna be happy! (2, Insightful)

HarvardAce (771954) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462732)

Actually, that would only be correct if the numbers they gave were the median income. If you take the average salary of 10 people, 9 of whom make $10,000 and another who makes $910,000, your average salary is $100,000. However, 90% of the people are making less than that, and 10% are making more than it.

I ain't complainin'... (2, Funny)

Bravo_Two_Zero (516479) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462466)

I was only out of work for 8 weeks, but that was enough for me. I ain't complainin' about my salary any more. No, really. I haven't yet. I've complained about other salaries being too low and some being too high. But mine's just right!

Now, I will complain about a lack of focus, nonexistent project management, unreasonable expectations and unclear goals. Heck, I'll complain about that all day long.

Re:I ain't complainin'... (1)

grendelkhan (168481) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462632)

Me neither.

Course, when I got laid off, it was only for a day and the job I have no, I got a major raise, so as far as I am concerned, my salary is just fine.

Re:I ain't complainin'... (1)

jokach (462761) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462801)

The worst part is that the 'supposed' project managers are the ones making the bigger salaries compared to the people that actually do the work.

Just remember to be humble (1)

thenumberofthebeast (700033) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462470)

Compare your salary [channel4.com] .

Re:Just remember to be humble (1)

NeoFunk (654048) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462498)

hey, I'm rich! ... so why am I still eating ramen noodles?

I'm always underpaid (1, Funny)

8400_RPM (716968) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462474)

I hate looking at these things. They always show I'm underpaid.

Re:I'm always underpaid (1)

dylan_- (1661) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462744)

Me too, so afterwards I always go here [globalrichlist.com] to make myself feel better. Of course then I end up feeling guilty. You can't win...

Reality Check - For a dollar you could feed (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#9462496)

an ethiopian one day, so stop bitching about how off the median you are and get back to earning your already overrated salary.

How come these surveys never include number of hours of actual work?

Secret Govt funding of top secret research (1)

Ced_Ex (789138) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462506)

I suppose you can file this under the $4000 toilet seats and $50/nut and bolt combo.

The money is used to secretly funnel funding to UFO research.

Tell that to your Point Haired Boss (0, Redundant)

JThaddeus (531998) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462508)

How appropriate to see this posted on the same day as this [dilbert.com] Dilbert strip.

Lucky to have a salary... (1)

Y! (109179) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462513)

When they can hire, code monkeys in Russia or India for a 1/3 of what are making, I'm almost afraid to get too many raises... Don't want to price myself out of the ballpark.

Re:Lucky to have a salary... (0, Redundant)

byronne (47527) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462600)

In Soviet Union, salary surveys you! Err, or something like that. Damn.

I'm not Looking (2, Interesting)

warriorpostman (648010) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462571)

Yeah, 3.4 MB and it was only 75% downloaded after 15 minutes? Anyway, I don't want to Know! I'm happy where I work, and I'm ignorantly satisfied with my salary. Last year I spent 12 months working at a crap software company. They had a market niche and the competition wasn't enough to make them get off their asses and write good software. Instead they had been stove-piping and patching together various client-database applications for 10 or 15 years. When I left for another company, everyone kept asking, "Oh, you're leaving because it's better money?", and I'm like, no, I'm leaving because the company I'm going to work for actually tries to design and implement good software. The fact that the salary was higher was just an added bonus. I would have taken a pay cut to go to this company. But everyone's always fixated on the money.

I went to school for liberal arts, so I'm one of THOSE web monkeys. But I learned my shit, and I'm happy to be making what I consider to be decent money, although most developers who have a degree and the same experience as me would probably feel undervalued making my salary. But like I said...I'm not going to RTF3.4MBReport. Sometimes Ignorance is Bliss.

Well Done (0, Redundant)

CrazyTalk (662055) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462581)

We've managed to slashdot InfoWorld into oblivian. sigh. yeah, i guess this is -1 redundant.

Lake Wobegon reference (1)

nothingtodo (641861) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462602)

That impressed me. I love prairie home companion and listen to it faithfully even though I knew nothing about it when I lived in Minnesohda years ago.

Things *have* been good... (4, Insightful)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462624)

...at least for me. I managed to get over a 20% increase in January through a salary adjustment. How? I worked my ass off. Smartly.

I did the normal IT stuff, but I also introduced new (free) tech, held training classes for staff, and generally took honest interest in my job (something I don't always see in the 19-year old wire contractors we sometimes hire).

This January I basically presented myself as a needed member of the team, explained my salary adjustment request (using an Infoworld-like survey) and got my boss to back it up to management (not hard, because we treat each other well). There's methods to increase your chances of getting a good pay raise.

Garrison Keiller wasn't a math major (4, Informative)

TrentL (761772) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462651)

If he was, he'd know that it's completely possible for most people at Lake Wobegone to be above (or below) average.

Consider an exam taken by 4 people. 3 people score a 10. 1 person scores a 2. That makes an average of 8 (10 + 10 + 10 + 2 = 32. 32/4 = 8). Most of the people scored above average.

This is why Mean and Median are useful concepts.

Re:Garrison Keiller wasn't a math major (1)

easter1916 (452058) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462727)

Garrison Keilor was joking, for heaven's sake! Basic grade-school math covers averages, at least in Ireland.

Re:Garrison Keiller wasn't a math major (1)

HeghmoH (13204) | more than 10 years ago | (#9462767)

How often does this actually happen in real-world populations, rather than contrived examples? Also, I believe the quote says that all of the children are above average; you always need at least one spoiler.
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