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Television Media Hardware

Second Generation Homebrew PVR Devices 233

An anonymous reader writes "It looks like the second generation of homebrew PVRs is on its way. Asus recently released their Digimatrix barebones PC which combines a lot of features in a very slim and stylish box. DVD/CD-R, WiFi, HDTV tuner, FM Tuner, memory card reader etc. All for ~$400. The reviews look good, except that the software that comes with it doesn't look all that great... of course this may not be a problem because there has already been significant effort in getting linux to run on it and most features are working. Combine MythTV with this device and you have an almost perfect PVR? I wonder what other hardware companies have in store for the homebrew PVR market?"
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Second Generation Homebrew PVR Devices

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  • by brokeninside ( 34168 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:56AM (#8549962)
    With a Pentium IV and a fast system bus, I would expect this thing to draw a lot of power. When I went from an Athlon based system to an iMac, my power bill dropped by almost ten bucks a month. I'd hate to see it spike from a set top appliance.
    • by ciroknight ( 601098 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:07AM (#8550013)
      Not hard to do the math, but it'll probably average out at about 100-200 watts, as this is what typical PC's will run, and well... for all purposes, it's a fullsized PC, shrank into a smaller box.

      This Could Be A Job For.. Pentium M! Using today's latest and greatest SpeedStep Technology, Pentium M offers extreme flexibility and speed, at the low power of an Embedded/Laptop processor. This would be the perfect application for Low Voltage models too.
      • Geez, and I was thinking Nehemiah core from VIA. How much do the Pent Ms cost now? I haven't yet seen them in my country (of course, neither have I seen the Epia...) because the Thai IT stores are entirely buzzword compliant.
        • Agreed on the Via chip, but I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to play with ;). Deconstructed a Laptop to play with centrino in a more, traditional, environment. Pentium M's still very expensive (cheapest i've seen is 250$ for a 1.4...), but considering the speed (Outperforms a 2.0 P4, 1.6 athlon), it's worth the investment, except you have to find a board to use with it :(
        • by afidel ( 530433 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:30AM (#8550096)
          Pentium M desktop isn't available, only laptop processors at this point. If you could buy individual Pentium M's they wouldn't be cheap "the slowest Pentium M, a 1.3GHz chip, costs $209 with 1M byte of cache.. That's from Infoworld in January, not sure if there has been a price drop on them yet.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:38AM (#8550121)
      $10/month ??? What the hell do you pay for power?

      Here we pay $0.06 US/KwH. Lets say I had a regular barebones athlon system:
      Motherboard
      Athlon 2400+
      geforce4mx video card
      1 hard drive 7200rpm
      1 cd-rom or dvd-rom
      1 512MB ddr chip

      This is going to pull about 200W max and more likely 150W continuous

      An IMac takes 130W continuous:
      http://www.talktothemac.com.au/Apple_ Folders/imac/ specs.html

      200W * 24 * 30 = 144kwh = $8.64 US
      130 * 24 * 30 = 93.6kwh = $5.52 US

      A savings of $3.02 US/month.

      And yeah, I have built the above little cheapie box and actually measured the continuous power.

      Either your numbers or off or you are bullshitting...
      • by realdpk ( 116490 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:49AM (#8550303) Homepage Journal
        You're forgetting the monitor.

        My computer - Athlon XP 2600+, GeForce Ti 4200, 1 7200RPM drive, 1 CD burner, and an LCD monitor NEC 1760BK use a total of 186W of power, idle but display on, according to my UPS. A 17" CRT (Sony) takes about 78W alone (just tested it).

        So more likely, your computer will idle close to ~160W, and then you can add ~20W (LCD) or ~75W (CRT). 180W and 235W respectively.

        We pay 8 cents per kWh here (4 cents if you're under a certain rediculously low maximum). 180W, $10.40/mo, 230W $13.53. Assuming you just leave it on and don't do anything with it, like surf slashdot or play a game... ;) Then it goes up.

        The iMac should cost about $7.48/month to run. It's not quite $10, but it's still a significant drop (almost half if you start with a CRT). Even more of a drop if you use a high wattage chip such as a late model P4.
      • From your spec page, the iMac takes 130W maximum continuous.

        That means the processor is pegged, the hard drive is grinding, and you are burning a DVD over the network and downloading an ISO over the modem while blasting brit-pop over the builtin speakers. Oh, and running a 3D benchmarking application.

        An unlikely scenario.
    • Unfortunately it will be a long while before the software becomes as easy to use and intuitive like Tivo. Although Tivo's slowness is showing it's age these days.
      • It's already years beyond TiVo. It doesn't tie you into a subscription model where when the company dies the hardware becomes an overpriced doorstop.

        For that reason alone, I'd pay more for this box than the TiVo+lifetime subscription.
        • by ratsnapple tea ( 686697 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @05:57AM (#8550806)
          I don't know about you, but $12.95 a month is worth it for me not to be annoyed by a piss-poor design every time I pick up the remote. Did you see this article? [slashdot.org] TiVo paid a lot of attention to the UI of their product, and it shows.

          That's just me, of course; YMMV. TiVo probably won't appeal as much to people who lack good taste.

          By the way, TiVo's data feed was reverse engineered a long time ago, but the hackers who figured it out aren't releasing the format as a courtesy to TiVo (the company). If TiVo ever goes under, you can bet your box won't become an "overpriced doorstop."

          yours
      • There is already TiVo and ReplayTV, I don't don't think we need another shrinkwrapped "don't look inside" consumer product.

        What I want is a cheap, quiet, hackable box that records and replays high-quality audio and video, with all the normal expansion slots (because I'd also like it to replace my "home server" which does a bunch of other stuff).

        It's a challenge to do, because the only suitable encoder/decoder is the Hauppauge PVR 350 pci card, which is almost $200 by itself.

    • Not an HDTV tuner (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Come on people, when reviewing a piece of hardware, get the story straight. This box does NOT have an hdtv tuner, it has a plain old analog tv tuner but can output to an HDTV. Those are two very different things. Now, if someone can show me a box that includes an HDTV tuner as well I would be highly interested.
      On that note -- I seem to remember WinTV having a WinTV-D product out a while ago. Does anyone know what happened to it ? It could to Digital TV (not quite HDTV but better than ATSC)
    • FWIW, my Athlon 64 3200+, three 7200RPM IDE HDs, GeForceFX 5700 Ultra, DVD, several 80mm fans, VG191 flat panel, and printer on standby burn 140W according to my UPS while the CPU is in Cool 'n' Quiet mode. The upcoming CG revision Athlon 64 will do even better. Using a Seasonic Super Tornado high-efficiency power supply helps quite a bit too. My last electric bill was $35, and that's with an Athlon 1700+ two HD box running 24x7 in addition to the workstation running most of the day.

      Anyhow, yeah, a P4 m
  • by www.fuckingdie.com ( 759660 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:00AM (#8549980) Homepage
    It would be a refreshing change from the everyday norm to have all of our "Comsumer Electronics" built on an open platform. If someone built a computer that was the size of a slim DVD player, and could be operated using any operating system I wanted, I would jump on it.

    But for now at least we still have to put up with either a rather large Media PC, one that doesn't quite fit in with the other components of your home theater I mean, or whatever PoS companies like Sony want to jam down our throats this model year.

    So to make a long story short I would like to see a Computer that looks, and feels, like a super slim DVD player, and Runs Linux. Not too much to ask I think, and then I would be able to do as I please with it.

    Disclaimer: If something like this actually exists please let me know about it. I have, after all, been living in the middle of nowhere northern BC for about 19 years.

    • Whoops... (Score:2, Interesting)

      Should have checked the dimensions of this little guy before that last post... it is actually pretty small. Would almost fit into even my home theater setup... that is if my wife would only let me have a computer in the living room.....

      Like I said... Middle of nowhere...

    • by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:13AM (#8550032) Journal

      You know I am pretty sure creating such a beast shouldn't be a problem. Watch.

      Step 1: Get yourself a small form factor PC, like the ThinkGeek Cappucino [thinkgeek.com] or The Open Brick [mandrakestore.com] or build your own cool looking mini PC. [thinkgeek.com]

      Step 2: Get yourself a USB DVD drive (brownie points for DVD burners)

      Step 3: Get a USB TV Card [buy.com] that runs under Linux [thefeed.no] (Note: I did a quick google, but I'd bet money you could find one that worked much better. And that page was talking about spotty TV signals in 2002. I bet it's gotten better)

      Step 4: Download a copy of MythTV [mythtv.org]

      Bingo! You've now got a PVR which will either look nice in your stereo cabinet (like that ThinkGeek case), or which you can keep hidden, save for the external DVD drive (and since every DVD player has a DVD drive in it, you're not going to find anything with a much smaller footprint). And, it shouldn't be too hard to hide the OpenBrick. And all for under $1500.

      • by Polo ( 30659 ) * on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:23AM (#8550074) Homepage
        This post is a little simplistic. I've downloaded mythtv and even used knoppixmyth which is even easier to use, but getting things to work are far from easy.

        Bingo = between two days and a week of effort.

        From what I can tell, all the people who've gotten mythtv to work successfully have used a hauppage pvr-250 or pvr-350. Other brands work, but need considerable tinkering.

        I think I'm going to document my entire "journey" to help other people get going faster...
        • by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:33AM (#8550105) Journal
          This post is a little simplistic. I've downloaded mythtv and even used knoppixmyth which is even easier to use, but getting things to work are far from easy.

          I made no claims about the time involved -- only the parts and the money. Yes, you would probably need to know what you were doing, and know your way around the Linux command line. However, I wanted to point out that it was possible if you wanted to.

          If you're going to shell out $1000 to $1500 to build a PVR when you can buy a Tivo for a couple hundred, it's for the fun / geekiness of it, not because you want a PVR. (And, of course, you could just buy the one featured in this slashdot article to hack if you really want MythTV).

          • by The Vulture ( 248871 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:51AM (#8550171) Homepage
            Hell yeah, I have to agree. I could have shelled out a total of $500-$600 for a TiVo with a lifetime subscription, but I like to do things the hard way, it seems. I was seriously considering the TiVo, because it would just work.

            Then, I did some investigation into do-it-yourself PVR's, and stumbled onto MythTV and Freevo. I tried Freevo first, and didn't really like it (even before using it to watch TV), but the clincher was that, at that time, it didn't support PVR functionality (rewinding through the live TV stream).

            I had (still have to some extent) a bunch of older hardware kicking around, so I decided to give MythTV a shot. The hardware was somewhat under-powered, but if I scaled down the capture resolution (to 320x480, for instance), I was able to get it to work. That was enough for me to start spec'ing out some new hardware and make purchases over a period of time.

            It was definitely a learning experience in putting together a MythTV machine, helping find bugs, submitting a small code patch or two. I'd do it again, but that's because I'm usually up for a good challenge. If you want something that just works, seriously, buy a TiVo, that's what they do is make devices that work.

            -- Joe
            • by toddlg ( 319712 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:21AM (#8550417)
              My "free" HTPC went from Freevo, to mythTV, to Knoppmyth, to the (gasp!) Windows-based (free for personal use, not open source) myHTPC [myhtpc.net] front end.

              The author has not released anything for it since August because he's coming out with a new and improved version sometime real soon.

              Despite that, there's an active community writing/tweaking modules for it, and I've got it to do what I want so far (show the TV listings and weather) since I've not got a Hauppauge card yet.

              I decided to go with myHTPC because for me the learning curve was not quite as steep re: $distro vs. W2K pro.

              I've got a wireless nic in it for the TV/weather updating, use TightVNC to admin it, use it with my StreamZAP remote to control Winamp, etc.

              I almost went with a Linux solution, but just getting this box set up (in an Antec Overture case, btw) has tickled my hardware/fiddling bone enough and I'm able to use it now. YMMV
              • The way I look at it, to each their own.

                I investigated myHTPC, read the forums, checked out the available software, and didn't really find what I was looking for. I would imagine that the situation has since changed.

                MythTV in the beginning for me was quite challenging, and I've been using UNIX in some form or another for 10+ years (in fact, I learned UNIX before I learned Windows, turned out to be a fluke in high school computer lab scheduling). There was always documentation for MythTV that evolved, bu
        • From what I can tell, all the people who've gotten mythtv to work successfully have used a hauppage pvr-250 or pvr-350. Other brands work, but need considerable tinkering.

          Not even remotely true. I have an AverMedia TV Stereo, about the most generic software-driven cap card you can find, and Knoppmyth was pretty much a breeze to install. Only glitch was a formatting issue with XMLTV, which really wasn't Myth's fault. The latest KnoppMyth is supposed to have resolved this, or what I did was read the Knopp

        • by The Vulture ( 248871 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:38AM (#8550282) Homepage
          Granted, I now have a PVR-250 and a PVR-350 in my MythTV machine, but I started out with dual BT878 capture cards (a Pinnacle PCTV Rave and a Hauppauge WinTV/Radio).

          Although the picture quality of the PVR-x50 cards are better, I would argue that MythTV actually runs better on the BT8x8 cards, only because the ivtv driver is a bit unstable still.

          The two main reasons why everybody raves about the PVR-250 cards (and thus tends to go with them) under MythTV are:
          1. The graphics quality is SO much better. Even when you crank up the resolution on the BT8x8 cards to 720x480, there's still a noticable difference in picture quality (although, this could be due to the software codecs).
          2. While giving this amazing picture quality, the bulk of the work is done on the PVR-x50 card. Thus, the main CPU remains free for other things.

          I can speak from first hand experience, trying to do a dual-tuner system using BT8x8 cards really chews up CPU power. If you have the settings set up too high, and you end up recording two things at once (watching Live TV counts as a recording), then you'll end up dropping frames in the second recording (stuttering). The PVR-x50 eliminates all of these worries (assuming you have a motherboard that can handle the DMA traffic).

          -- Joe
          • I would be very interested to hear your subjective opinion of ivtv stability. (I've been thinking about getting a PVR350 for quite a while, but I don't want to jump in if it's going to be a constant headache. At the same time I'm not satisfied with the picture or sound quality from my current tuner card.)

            Also can the PVR 350's hardware decoder handle input from a DVD drive, and does IVTV support that? It may seem like a small detail, but for me it drives the cpu requirement for the whole box.

            • by The Vulture ( 248871 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:39PM (#8553129) Homepage
              Right now, it all depends on how much patching you're willing to do.

              I build MythTV from the RPMs that are done by Axel Thimm, which are linked to in Jarod's MythTV website. From what I have read on the MythTV mailing list, there are some issues with X/MythTV on the PVR-350 TV-Out. From Jarod's own website (which might be a bit dated):

              General notes and observations from my first few days of using the PVR-350's TV-Out:

              * mplayer WILL play back movies through the 350's tv-out, but the processor has to do all the decoding and the sound has to go through your sound card. However, even on an Athlon XP 2400 system, video playback isn't entirely smooth (for high-quality divx rips). Better support for the 350 as an output device is slated for a future mplayer release.
              * Trying to use MythGallery locked up the frontend, MythDVD suffers from the same problems as mplayer (until you use a patched mplayer, which I haven't yet tried). I haven't yet tried MythGame or MythMusic.
              * On many TVs, the picture is heavily overscanned. I haven't yet tried tweaking the XF86Config mode to see if I can reduce it, though I've seen indications on the mythtv-users mailing list that this may not be something one should attempt. For reference, I'm currently having to manually specify a MythTV window size of something like 632x472, 40 pixel X offset, 8 pixel Y offset, to fit it to the screen. This will vary heavily from TV to TV.
              * Thus far, I'm not seeing a monstrous difference between the 350's output and a GF4MX's output (both via SVid), but I would say the picture is a bit sharper in scenes with high motion (I see a soft edge to things w/the GF4MX that are very sharp w/the 350).
              * I think the 350's picture is a touch sharper than when I'm feeding my HDTV a progressive-scan signal via my VGA->Component video adapter, but not by a huge amount. The adapter wins hands-down for me though, because of my large divx collection (both because of 350 playback issues and resolution), the far superior readability (yes, I occasionally web browse on it, occasionally use the shell on it, etc., and a progressive-scan signal is WORLDS better for that), and stability
              * So far as stability, I hadn't had a single crash of my MythTV system in ages until introducing the 350. Generally, it works great, but I've froze up the frontend a number of times in a few days, caused two or three crashes of the backend (which is on an entirely different machine), and completely hard-locked the system twice (I've been hammering on it pretty good though). At the moment, I'm back to using the output on my GeForce 4 MX, because I'll take stability over a slight picture quality improvement any day. The 350 was slaughtering the high WAF (Wife Approval Factor) MythTV had been enjoying for some time. ;-)

              Myself, I use the IVTV driver with very few problems, using both the PVR-250 and PVR-350 as hardware encoders (but use a GeForce 4MX for TV-Out). My MythTV machine stays on 24/7, and I don't really run into too many problems. The most annoying problem right now (and I'm not sure if it's IVTV, MythTV or lirc) is that if I was recording something on card 1, and watching TV on card 2, when I change channels on card 2 (after card 1 is finished recording), then I get all sorts of stuttering problems. But, if I exit TV, and restart it, then all is fine.

              If I understand things correctly, the "stable" branch of IVTV is being maintained by other developers while the main developer(s) go on with the 0.2 branch, which should fix most of the issues.

              For now, my recommendation is go for it, but unless you feel like putting in patches, then use it as a PVR-350, and just wait.

              I can't answer the question about DVD playback, because I haven't configured my PVR-350 for DVD playback.

              -- Joe
      • It's been a while since I've seen a USB TV tuner, but you might want to be careful with those things. In college, my roomate had a USB TV tuner, and I had a PCI TV Tuner. There was a very noticable difference in quality. The USB bus is limited to 12 megs a second, while PCI is limited to 33 megs a second. I'm completely speculating that that is the cause of the difference in quality, but you should still be careful with those things.

        A Hauppage PVR-350 works great for a MythTV box, and has a built in TV-Ou
        • Hmmmm. Do firewire TV tuners exist? They could definitely have enough bandwidth for good resolution, but a quick search of Buy.com didn't turn up any, and who knows if they would work on Linux even if they existed.
        • by The Vulture ( 248871 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:03AM (#8550349) Homepage
          I feel that I should point out a couple of things for anybody considering getting a PVR-350 for Linux at the moment:
          1. Even though the PVR-350 has TV-Out on it, AFAIK, you'll still need a regular video card in your PC (I don't think that motherboard BIOS' will recognize the PVR-350 as a video card, though I may be wrong on that).
          2. PVR-350 TV-Out at the moment isn't that great. Last I heard, it's just a framebuffer, so unless you're running specific apps that will use the acceleration, like mplayer, MythTV (for watching MPEG-2 recordings only, I think), and maybe Xine, it's extremely slow. And for applications that require some sort of GL support, well, forget it (people have had numerous troubles with the MythGame module/XMAME)..
          3. Apparently there's some issues regarding using the PVR-350 to record, and using the TV-Out at the same time.

          However, your advice is still sound. I bought a PVR-350, and at the moment, I'm using it as a PVR-250, using my GeForce 4MX for TV-Out. Once the ivtv driver stabilizes, I'll switch to the PVR-350. There's been a lot of traffic on the ivtv mailing list lately with patches for testing and the like.

          -- Joe
        • by Emil Brink ( 69213 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @09:27AM (#8551218) Homepage
          Um. Your numbers are a bit misleading, although that of course doesn't change the value of your story. USB 1.1, which I assume you were using since you're talking about "the past" and USB 2.0 is rather recent, has a max bandwidth of 12 megabits/second [usb.org]. That's 1.5 megabytes/second, of course. PCI, on the other hand, starts out as a 33 MHz [lrz-muenchen.de] bus that is 32 bits wide, for a maximum theoretical bandwidth of 133 megabytes/second. Thus, "raw PCI" is roughly 90 times faster than USB 1.1. Just wanted to point that out, since factual errors of this nature tend to annou the anal geek within. ;^)
        • USB is limited to 12 Mbps, which is ~1.2 megabytes a second. PCI is limited to 33 megabytes a second (over 30 times faster).
      • by Anonymous Coward
        Get yourself a USB DVD drive

        Sorry this is just an AC rant.

        But USB for high bandwidth devices like DVD drives is a travesty of tech. Such devices should use Firewire! For the love of SHIT put more firewire on PCs for FUCK SAKE.

      • by yudan ( 750605 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:15AM (#8550394)
        First, the ASUS box has HDTV output, you cannot get a HDTV tuner with whatever box under 400 USD. Check it by yourself.

        Second, Using MythTV with USB TV Card is a pain in the ass.

        Third, Do you really want to stack many USB boxes on top of your box? Is it a CLEAN solution? Besides, these USB DVD/TV may require their own external power supply.

        Don't always assume DIY is the best. I think ASUS is quite impressive, building the whole thing around 400 USD>
        • Are there any USB capture devices at all that work with MythTV? I have a PC hooked up the TV/stereo for watching videos and listening to music, and if I could turn it into a PVR that would be fantastic, but it has no PCI slots (bummer). If anyone knows of a USB device that supports enough of the video4linux protocol to work with MythTV please tell me!
    • well, it's not *quite* as thin... but if you have the money there certainly are sexy cases out there for mini-itx EPIA VIA motherboards... throw in a right angle pci riser and a hauppauge wintv PVR 350 [hauppauge.com] and you should be dancing, right?

      There are distro's of linux tailored to run on this platform too...

      *Shrug*

      e.
    • Here, have a look at these [hushtechnologies.com], they are beautiful, but expensive.

      I'm just about to pull the trigger on one of these, one more clinet to finish up and I just might be ready.
    • Speak for yourself. This thing is garbage and not worth the god damn $400 asking price IMO! Notice that I said IMO. When I want to buy PVR, I don't want a god damn computer with 2 gig of ram and screaming CPU. All I really want is a device that is affordable and does the job, which is to record my TV shows and shit. If it can access my network shared drive and play some of my divx/mpeg files that would be great (actually that is a must nowadays). What I don't want to do is spend $400 on a bare bone box lik
    • Has anyone ever considered using the guts of a laptop? that would be a pretty slim computer.
    • Use a little creative cabling and your existing computer. With two 50-foot lengths of shielded coaxial cable i've got my secondary video out now common on many video cards (modulated from s-video to RF), running alongside a digital audio cable up to my home theatre where it's controlled by an RF remote that can be used anywhere in the house. No noise since the computer's in another room, no cost of picking up a second machine.
  • by Chairboy ( 88841 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:03AM (#8550000) Homepage
    There is no HDTV tuner. If you read the article, you'll see that it supports 'HDTV output', eg, VGA (since any HDTV that doesn't have a VGA port on the back can take a VGA signal (at the right rez) using a component adapter.

    The rig in the article can only record regular TV.
    • and the tuner is utter crap.

      if it is not almost identical to the PVR-250 then it is garbage.

      I can record 4 different channels at the same time on a P-3 400 and not get above 6% system useage. using any of the conextant or bttv solutions is wasting time and making the whole PVR crap.

      I looked at the asus machine, nice start, but no cigar. a coolermaster pvr case and a mini atx motherboard with a lower end Athalon (1.0ghz) is more horsepower than needed.. and many people are getting the tiny ITX boards wo
  • Centrino (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ciroknight ( 601098 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:04AM (#8550004)
    I would really love a box like this if it were Centrino instead of Pentium 4. Low power, cool running, and possibly one of the best wireless solutions available, IMO.

    Which brings the question back of when Intel will bring the Pentium M back to the desktop. It is a little more AMD-ish look at processessing (Best parts of P3, with merged P4 technology), probably an overclockers dream, but it'd be a great embedded use chip.

    Not to mention a centrino board has pretty much everything this would have, minus the tuner, which could be done via PCI.

    • Your opinion on wireless doesn't mean a whole lot then. Centrino's wireless PHY is crap, no one would be using it except Intel only allows companies to use the Centrino brand name (and use Intel marketing dollars) if they include the whole setup. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pentium M, just don't like the fact that Intel is pushing a substandard part on people. Not only that but they are still 9 months away from an A/B/G part, something everyone else has had for some time now.
      • Re:Centrino (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ciroknight ( 601098 )
        No, what Intel has is ease of use. My Dell Centrino book took less than a minute to configure/reconfigure, for anywhere I went, not to mention it was much less obtrusive than the drivers that DLink included, which ran a utility that not only threw up ugly errors if my signal was shit, but had an ugly splash screen and caused this odd hard drive clicking at the weirdest of times (when the card woke up from sleeping is my only guess). No, I feel that Intel did great justice, and with their support in trying
  • Looks pretty good (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:04AM (#8550005)
    Unfortunately, their distributor [howardcomputers.com] forces you to buy a copy of Windows XP along with the computer.
    • Re:Looks pretty good (Score:4, Informative)

      by ibbey ( 27873 ) * on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:24AM (#8550079) Homepage
      Howard Computers isn't the only source for these-- they're just the ones who have paid Asus for the ad space. Do a Google search & you can find it as a barebones system.
      • Here it is at NewEgg.Com [newegg.com]. You can't go wrong dealing with NewEgg. I live in California and gladly pay the sales tax on stuff I buy from them because they are just so damn good.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:09AM (#8550017)
    I predict a much darker, less interesting future.

    Advertisers will want to find ways to get their messages in the programs. Right now, the method is to insert the messages in breaks of ever-increasing time which occur at greater and greater frequency. People use PVR's to fight this trend.

    The next logical step, then, is to insert the advertising directly into the contents of the programming. This is already happening now to a small extent, but I believe in the future it will get worse.

    Here is an example of what I envision: One character, Bob, pulls out his cell phone. A second character, George, sees it.

    George: Hey, that's a cool cellphone you got there.

    Bob: Yeah. It's a Noksung. I got it with my T-Cingle PCS. It was free! Look, I can take full-motion video with it and uselessly hog screeds of bandwidth with aimless nonsense.

    George: Wow! Can I have a look?

    Bob: Sure. T-Cingle PCS is running a special right now. 3,000,000 anytime minutes for nine cents a month.

    George: Great. I'm going to sign up for that right after we solve this murder. Wait! is that a Taco's Jr. over there. Pull in, they've got a new sushi-cajun burrito on their value menu for 34 cents!.....

    etc, etc, etc.

    Surprisingly enough, people will probably actually watch this crap.
    • I agree with the other reply-- I'm not quite sure what to make of your "scene", but I will say that embedding ads in programming is nothing new. It's slightly more subtle now than it used to be, but in the 1940s-1950s it was common to have the star of a show talk about the benefits of the product for five minutes in the middle of a scene, or right before a commercial.

      For a good laugh, go rent "Mac and Me" if you can find it. Some of the best product placement of all time.

      W
  • PVRs... for cars? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sanksa Wott ( 680705 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:10AM (#8550021) Homepage Journal
    In the spirit of the "second generation of homebrew PVRs", I was wondering...

    Since I travel a lot I have recently been thinking about putting together a PVR-type device for my automobile. With ever-shrinking form factors, hiding the device would be no problem. A simple remote control would be fairly easy to integrate. Several fast-booting distro's come to mind to use as starting points. But before I jump in headfirst, I thought I would ask... has this been done before?

    (I remember an article a few days abo about a totally "wired" automobile, but that's not my goal. Just a simple mass-storage device with access controlls, integrated with a car stereo. )

    -B
    • Probably has been done, but wouldn't it be awesome to have a wireless system installed in the car *as a stereo*, so that you could bring all of your data where-ever you go? If the iPod ever goes WiFi, you could set up a server in your car to support a cross-exchange of music, data being integrated into your environment even deeper.

      It wouldn't be too hard to do what you are saying, hell, I say do it. But it might be a lot healthier on your car to use an old laptop, and find a drive box to put your ultra-
      • A friend of mine did something along those lines. He has a PC with GPS in his trunk hooked up to an LCD up front, when he gets near home some scripts fire up the WiFi card, it then connects and authenticates with his home server. The two PC's sync up and then the trunk PC shuts itself down so as not to kill the battery.
    • Mini ITX board, a small lcd display and a bigass hard drive. Bam, car mp3 player. Get a usb hard drive or rig something cool to synch via wi-fi. My friend did this for uner $400 i think, it turned out amazing.
    • Lot's of people have built similar systems. DashPC [dashpc.com] (which runs Linux) comes to mind. Try Googling for "Car PC" or "car mp3 player" and you should find lot's of other examples.
  • Look at the back of that thing! Look at the back of any computer and you'll sense my rage welling within you. Somebody at SuperPCConnectocorp, inc. is ruining it for all of us! Shouldn't it be SUSB (sometimes universal serial bus)? If there's one thing I'm looking for in the cutting edge of computer technology, it's the truly universal plug for everything. I'd love to look on the back of a PC and see a neat row of identical (yet clearly labeled) ports. I mean, I understand how whiny and insignificant
    • If there's one thing I'm looking for in the cutting edge of computer technology, it's the truly universal plug for everything.

      Get a company to build a motherboard with nothing but firewire ports.

      Firewire hard drives, firewire keyboards/mice, firewire display (maybe not, let's keep VGA/DVI for a while), firewire DVD drive, firewire EVERYTHING.

      Of course, even with that you'd have problems. Your speakers don't have firewire inputs, your satellite/cable doesn't come over firewire, and your TV doesn't take

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:17AM (#8550051)
    The only seller they link to has it at about US$1,200

    Froogling it shows a good number of them at 450, but that's pure bare bones, no proc, no drives (not even the dvd/cdr you mentioned)
  • Almost perfect? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:20AM (#8550064)
    Combine MythTV with this device and you have an almost perfect PVR?

    I have a fair bit of experience with MythTV. I've been using it for around 6 months now with both a Bt878 card and a PVR-350. And I wouldn't say "almost perfect". Pretty nice/cool, yes, but far from perfect. A friend has a TiVo that we use a lot.

    Here are some thoughts:

    MythTV/PVR can be somewhat cheaper (and big/ugly) or it can be quite a bit more expensive than a TiVo when using a nice case like in this article.

    TiVo subscription fees suck.

    MythTV and/or the PVR drivers crash or flake out. Some times I get interference bars across the recordings, a reboot fixes it. Not all the time, but sometimes. TiVo don't crash.

    MythTV can run multiple tuners. Although not really that great a bonus. I used to run several tuners but I never watched all the crap it recorded anyway. I'm using one tuner now and that's more than enough.

    MythTV can be daunting to install and configure. It takes a lot of time. There is KnoppMyth which is pretty easy and preconfigured, but it doesn't always work and still requires some configuration.

    MythTV makes it "easy" (if you ignore configuration pain) to use remote frontends so you can watch TV on any computer on the network.

    MythTV makes it easy to burn DVD's of your recorded shows or save the video for archival purposes.
    • TiVo subscription fees suck.

      Maybe so, but screenscraping zap2it is NOT a viable option.

      Unless MythTV gets support for Guide+, you'll end up having to pay a subscription when zap2it shuts down mythtv scrapers like tvguide did.
      • Re:Almost perfect? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:47AM (#8550154) Journal
        TiVo subscription fees suck.

        Maybe so, but screenscraping zap2it is NOT a viable option.

        Unless MythTV gets support for Guide+, you'll end up having to pay a subscription when zap2it shuts down mythtv scrapers like tvguide did.

        Yahoo! offers free TV listings, they wouldn't notice a huge increase in traffic if MythTV users switched over, and creating a scraper for their site is not really hard. And, for all I know, there are another dozen portals out there that MythTV users could head to if they got shut down.

        As a matter of fact, scrapers are pretty easy to create (well, if you're a programmer and you know Perl), and easy to create in such a way that it's not too likely you'll be caught. (Caveat coder! Possible TOS violations lurk, so think through whatever you want to do before you do it.)

        • (Caveat coder! Possible TOS violations lurk, so think through whatever you want to do before you do it.)

          Well that's kinda what I meant when I said screen scraping isn't a viable option. I didn't mean it's impossible (it's what xmltv currently does).

          I mean that TiVo replacements won't be viable until there's a better way of getting your TV listings, one that cooperates with the tv listing provider rather than exploiting them.
    • I don't think HTPCs are a cheaper alternative. TiVos and ReplayTVs use significantly less power than a PC. Energy costs are quite significant over the lifetime of a unit.

      Lifetime subscription fees are fairly reasonable compared to the cost of new hardware for a HTPC.

      There are also hacks to create program guides for the PVR to read. This is useful to overseas users. I frown on this for those in the states--you should obey the TOS and the PVR manufacturers make money on the subscriptions & their pro
    • One thing that shouldn't be forgotten when comparing MythTV with TiVo is the cool possibility of a client-server system with MythTV.

      You can have a noisy ugly backend server with lots of TV tuners and storage space stuffed away in your closet, and then have small, noiseless/quiet frontends in every room of the house.

      The advantage is obvious - people can watch live TV (different channels, only limited by the number of TV tuners) or recordings in every room of the house, and the overall noise level and pow

  • by Saint Stephen ( 19450 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:21AM (#8550068) Homepage Journal
    The MythTV software was good enough; SageTV is better. (Pro-Myth: Video preview in Channel Guide. Pro-Sage: File-naming format, smarter EPG fetching, better EPG data, smarter file-naming format, smarter interfaces, smarter favorites/don't like, smarter conflict resolution, smarter channel guide).

    The IVTV driver would lock up after 12 or 15 hours. That was with Kernel 2.6; probably should have stuck with kernel 2.4.

    Plus it was just torturously harder to use. I have switched to Windows 2000 + SageTV for my Hauppauge PVR-250, with the Hauppauge MVP for watching the movies on TV. It is much better than a Tivo or ReplayTV or Myth. It rocks.
    • This is a feature of Kernel 2.6.... after 15 hours you need at least the 2 minute break while you restart so you can learn to blink again.
    • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @04:27AM (#8550596) Journal
      I have a setup that might work even better for you.

      I didn't like MythTV at all. Skipping forward (or backwards) was very sluggish, the interface was cumbersome and complex, the conflict resolution was really complex, and didn't seem to work right anyhow. It needed plugins to do the most basic tasks that any old file-manager can do, etc. So eventually I've settled with the following setup:

      WebVCR+. It gives you an HTML interface to TV listings where you can schedule recordings, and you can set it up to record using any program you like. It uses XMLTV to get the listings. You can use any web browser you like.

      Then you just need a filemanager and a video player. I happen to like emelFM and MPlayer, so I just changed a few key-bindings (to match my remote), and it works quite well.

      I've also got a handful of scripts that do basic things, like convert MPEG-2 streams into MPEG-4. I re-mapped some keyboard shortcuts in AVIdemux2 so I can edit videos entirely with a remote. I made scripts to automate recording of data/audio/video CD. Etc, etc.
  • Volume (Score:3, Interesting)

    by osobear ( 761394 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:22AM (#8550070) Homepage
    As for the noise produced by ASUS DIGIMatrix system, I have to stress that it is very low compared with the level of noise generated by regular desktops or "cubic" mini-systems. Even when the fans rotate at their maximum, the noise level never goes beyond 30dB. For your information: the regular desktop systems generate about 50dB of noise. 50db? That seems pretty loud for a pc... I know mine runs around 40 and it still gets pretty damn annoying during a movie when there is the all-too-pivotal silent scene right at the end. You need some other kind of cooling in there, like water cooling with a no-moving-parts pump. Fan noise is one of the big things that ruins media center PCs now.
    • Re:Volume (Score:5, Informative)

      by mp3phish ( 747341 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:12AM (#8550223)
      Just use slow spinning 120mm, 92mm, and 80mm fans rather than fast spinning 70mm and 40mm fans.

      My microATX [directron.com] system runs with a 120mm fan in its ATX power supply [directron.com]. When idle it spins at about 1,000 RPM's. It's maximum rating is 2,000 RPM's. It self adjusts depending on load. That is less than 20db once the case is closed up.

      Then I modded that same case for a 120mm fan in the front of it (from the normal 80mm fan) and I run it at 1,200 RPM's (I use a rheostat to adjust its voltage/RPM). Then I use a 92->80mm fan adapter [frozencpu.com] on the cpu heatsink with a large Alpha 8045 (80x80x45mm) heatsink with copper inlay. This fan runs at about 1,000 RPM's, but it has a heat sensor on a wire that I can place anywhere. I chose to tape it to the side of the heatsink and that keeps the fan at about 1,800 RPM's under load and 1,000 RPM's idle. If you tape the thermal sensor for this fan to another area, it will run at a slower or faster rate, depending on how hot that surface gets.

      Then I modded the back of the case [directron.com] (click on the "back view" to see it) to allow a 92mm fan in there rather than 80mm. I run it at 1,000 RPM's.

      Now, every fan in a normal default factory case runs at about 2,500-4,000 RPM's by default and are only 60-80mm wide. A 120mm fan at 1,000 RPM's pushes the same amount of air (provided there is little restriction in the airflow pathway, and the shape of the finns, but on average...) as an 80mm fan running at 3,000 RPM's.

      Also, using the built in fan grill in your case (the ones they just punch out small holes in a pattern the shape of 60 or 80mm fan) is the worst thing you can do, even if you are going to use default sizes. You should always dremel out the built in grill and use a standard wire grill [directron.com] rather than those fancy air restricting/turbulence creating grills.

      Then use a 5400RPM Hard drive. If you want to blow money you can even get a heatpipe cooler for your hard drive that screws into a 5.25in bay with rubber washers, and isolates the HDD from the case. Then the heatpipes keep the drive cool. This works up to even with 10krpm drives. But I use 7200RPM's on my desktop systems.

      That is the basics. On top of all this you can do even more: Rubber washers between each fan and the case to prevent oscilations. If you use 2 identical fans, don't allow them to both run at the same voltage, as they will give you a beating effect because they will never spin at EXACTLY the same rate (unless you buy expensive computer controlled fan regulators which are only available in servers). Put a rubber washer between the power supply and the back of the case before screwing it in. Then put thin padding on all the joints of the case (like where the side pannel touches the rest of the case). This will dampen the oscillations throughout the case, and regulate all oscillations to be contained in a single pannel, rather than the entire case.

      There is much more you can do, but this post is getting long. You handy people should get modding. You don't have to be fancy and rice out your case with glowing lights to be a case modder. I don't, and my mods are what draws the attention when my friends compare computer systems with eachother. They just don't see how I can pack the fastest video card, the fastest CPU, and the best everything in such a small case, overclocked, and still keep it quieter than a Mac G5.
  • XBOX ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by vlad_petric ( 94134 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:39AM (#8550126) Homepage
    An xbox + XBMP [xboxmediaplayer.de] provides most of the functionality, and it's only 180$ (in all fairness, you do need a dolby decoder with your speakers, but it has HDTV in it)

    Furthermore, by purchasing an XBOX without actually buying games you make MS lose money :) (they're losing money anyway with xbox, but this way they're losing even more)

    These days it doesn't even take a screwdriver to hack the XBOX ... The (albeit kludgy) software solution works well.

  • The reviews look good, except that the software that comes with it doesn't look all that great... of course this may not be a problem because there has already been significant effort in getting linux to run on it and most features are working.

    Can't people just STOP trying to run Linux on everything?

    • No.

      :-P, but seriously, why would we want to? Sure it's not the best for every job, but it _defintely_ shows off the flexibility/portability of the operating sytem. portability is getting more important these days, especially where we are looking at a massive archetecture shift in the next 2 years or so (most likely AMD64/IA32e/x86-64, possibly the new G5/PPC970 *prays*), It's quite important that old code can be moved to new systems, cleaned up and beautified, and re-optimized in the least amount of ti
  • by Beebos ( 564067 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:50AM (#8550167)
    While I understand the geek lust for such a device, my two Replays (refubs bought from the Replay site with lifetime subscriptions included) and a DVD player covers all of my entertainment purposes flawlessly. The Replays are networked and can stream video from my PC. The DVD player can play DVDs, CDs, and MP3s. I rarely need to play anyother type of media, which I can already play on regular PC hooked up to my stereo system. It seems unecessary (and maybe more expensive and time consuming) to replace these devices that do their job very well, with a PC that can do it all.
    • Not only can a PC do it all, it can do much more.

      How good are your ReplayTVs at editing out commercials? How good are they at playing T2 Extreme Edition? How good are they at recording/playing back HDTV?

      If you don't want to use a computer, that's fine. Just because a computer isn't for you, doesn't mean you need t complain on slashdot that this is "unnecessary".
  • Ahanix (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kaliban923 ( 712025 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @01:54AM (#8550183)
    I've got an Ahanix [ahanix.com]case for my mythtv setup and while its a bit big, it fits well in my AV rack. With the right motherboard I get quality AC3 audio on DVDs and overall it works pretty well. However, as a poster above noted, myth still has a few(minor) kinks to work out especially with a Hauppauge PVR 250/350 setup(which I have) but the driver code has been getting better and I am happy to report that other than a memory leaking LCDproc process, my machine has been rock solid for over a month since I upgraded to 0.14 release and the latest Hauppauge drivers.

    Personally, the integrated Music Player, TV recorder/viewer, web interface(and this is the killer app for me) for scheduling recordings make the hassles worth it. Even bought myself a JP1 remote that I reprogrammed so it controls everything seemlessly so my girlfriend faction has increased greatly in the past month or so.

    Getting back to the Ahanix cases, they have several different models with different sizes most with a LCD display(HD44870) that can be used by mythtv if you have lcdproc installed. If you are looking for a HTPC, check them out.

  • This [apexdigitalinc.com] looks promising.. Apex makes cheap stuff of decent quality, and the specs on this look promising.

    Basically what the Phantom plans to be (which is why I dont doubt the Phantom will exist). I predict tons of dvd-form-factor PCs marketed as PC/Console/PVR/etc...

  • by Kaldaien ( 676190 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:15AM (#8550231)
    What's the deal with that? 1080i, 720i, 525i (what the hell is that anyway?!)... 1080i's pretty common, but I can't remember the last time
    I've ever seen a 720i source or 525i for that matter.

    I'd really like to see a device with DVI/Component INPUTS so you can use the tuner most cable companies provide with their HDTV service.
    It's a cold day in hell when you can pick up a decent HDTV signal with just an antenna around here.

    If I recall at CES this year there were at least 2 HDTV sets with built-in PVR capabilities, and they could record HDTV content.
    Now that really tickles my fancy, unfortunately your options for getting the recorded content off your TV's PVR are limited :-\

    $999 for an HDTV-VHS recorder (i.e. JVC HM-DH30000 ) is a little high. Seems the PC hardware approach might not be a bad idea,
    ATI has new HDTV tuner hardware on the horizon. If you couple that with a huge hard drive, I'm sure you could potentially beat the over-priced JVC product by a long shot.
    I know I'd certainly jump at the opportunity to buy such a device.

    Unfortunately, this device isn't quite there yet. But it looks like a step in the right direction (given a decent non-proprietary PVR software environment).

    But how long do we really have before TiVo and Replay embrace HDTV recording? Replay already has S/PDIF and Component OUTPUTs (even though they only have analog inputs)...
  • by Craggles ( 65757 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:21AM (#8550245)
    As I'm sure we all know, upgradability is a big issue with computer hardware. My MythTV box is using a Cooler Master case [auspcmarket.com.au] (but in black), with this motherboard [asus.com].

    I've already added a DVB-T (HDTV in the US) card, which you can't do with this box (i.e. you will never get digital TV with this box).

    My box is a bit bigger, but looks like a stereo component (brushed steel). I'm also planning on adding an extra analogue capture card (bringing my capture sources up to three). This will fill the PCI slots on the Micro-ATX board, so I'm damn glad I didn't buy a smaller box!

    I've got a DVD-ROM drive, DVD burner and currently one 160GB hard disk. Planning on adding another much bigger hard drive (waiting, waiting, I want 1TB)

    If you are thinking of building a PVR (it's a fun project), you really should think about expandability and upgradability.

    Also check Jarod's PVR Hardware Database [goldfish.org], and his excellent Install Guides [goldfish.org] page.

    Also, don't forget MythTV is a very nice client/server architecture, so you can run your "backend" on some beefy ugly PC in a cupboard, and us anything (including an XBox [blkbk.com]) as a frontend.

    --
    "Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
    -- Henry Mencken

    My blog: http://yi.org/blog [yi.org], Latest entry : Muscle powered microrobot's
  • HDTV (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:31AM (#8550271)
    As the above mentioned computer doesn't seem to actually have HDTV capabilites I'd like to point out this site.

    http://www.pchdtv.com/

    Linux HDTV cards for under $200. Sweet.

    --Greg
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Geeze how much longer do I have to hear about video cards with TV Tuners. All I need is channel 4 since all channel selection HAS TO BE through either a sat or cable box.

    A agood IR blaster would turn my PC into a programmable "universal remote".

    When will ATI and NVIDIA get a clue?
  • GBPVR (Score:3, Informative)

    by IanBevan ( 213109 ) * on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:39AM (#8550479) Homepage
    If you are a Windows user, check out GBPVR. Really very good indeed, puts some of the commercial stuff to shame. Free at the moment, although the author has started taking donations.
  • DirecTV users can get a combo DTV box/TiVO for $99 right now. I know because I just ordered one.

    35 hours might not be as much as what most people get from shoving a big drive in their homebrew DVRs, but damn, $99. It'll take a LONG time before the subscription fees push it up to the cost of some of these homebrew ones, and by then, DVRs may be even better and I will want to move on to another device.

  • And spend the rest on beer, or a lifetime subscription.

    http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/TIVO.dsp

    And hey, you'll have something that "just works" from the word go, instead of having to fuck about for 3 weeks and still not be up to scratch. Face it, the tivo guys did a better job than you can.

  • There are two features every PVR must have:

    1. No fan or other noisemaking moving parts.

    2. Noiseless disk drives.

    It's humiliating to spend $450 on a piece of geek gear and then realize it's keeping you awake at night.

    The worst offender is the ReplayTV 5040, which has a *stepper* motor in its fan, which is kept at a very low speed by the mobo to stop ordinary fan noise - white noise - but instead produces a fluttering rumble.

    I had to disconnect the fan and leave the cover off the unit (or it shuts itse

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