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Tech Firms Defend Moving Jobs Overseas

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the for-minimum-wage-or-lower dept.

Businesses 2064

bobcows writes "Yahoo is reporting about leading technology companies urging Congress and the Bush administration Wednesday not to impose new trade restrictions aimed at keeping U.S. jobs from moving overseas, where labor costs are lower. 'There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore,' Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co., said Wednesday. 'The problem is not a lack of highly educated workers,' said Scott Kirwin, founder of the Information Technology Professionals Association of America. 'The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S. Costs are driving outsourcing, not the quality of American schools.'"

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2064 comments

moving jobs overseas (0, Troll)

webtre (717698) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916889)

I think the point being made is that everyone bitches about how jobs are moving overseas because of American's extravagant lifestyles, etc. But when someone is willing to move to a place where you can live dirt-cheap, the government over there won't allow it.

And actually you can move right on in to California now, since the retarded state gov is basically trying abolish all immigration law. Come on over!

Re:moving jobs overseas (5, Insightful)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916977)

In lieu of laws prohibiting outsourcing IT overseas, I think I'd prefer seeing tax and other incentives given to companies to KEEP jobs here. Credits for hiring US citizen IN the US.

I don't like to see the US Govt. legislating corporate policies...but, I don't mind them giving them incentive to shape said policy towards thing beneficial to US citzens.

But, c'mon....minimum wage for an educated person? I can't believe any US business would expect that.....

Re:moving jobs overseas (1)

wembley (81899) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917090)

> But, c'mon....minimum wage for an educated person? I can't believe any US business would expect that.....

They don't. That was the rep for the worker's group being snarky.

Re:moving jobs overseas (1)

supersmike (563905) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916988)

when someone is willing to move to a place where you can live dirt-cheap, the government over there won't allow it

There's always Florida!

Long term plan. (0, Troll)

conner_bw (120497) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917104)

Xenophobic americans should, in large quantities, start immigrating in droves to countries that are cheaper to live in.

When America began, it was people looking for a a place to start over, the quality of life didn't improve, but the quality of ambition did.

Exile is the answer. Melting pot of the whole world into one big fat american stereotype. The Neo-cons have already started with Iraq. The missing element is people, more Americans willing to die by living below the poverty on foreign soil will bring peace.

Without American lives being sacrificed, all American jobs will be lost.

Get a nice curry (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916890)

with your tech support call! Yay!

Pay foreigners US minumum wage! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916892)

Or above. Any problems with that? Same goes for Nike and their "sweatshops". No difference as far as I'm concerned.

Why can't you make up the difference? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916955)

Since you save so much money from products that charge less because of cheaper labor, why not donate all of your extra money to those people who were slighted? Do you do that now?

It's easy to spend other people's money for them, isn't it? Do you put your money where your mouth is?

Re:Pay foreigners US minumum wage! (1)

irokitt (663593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916994)

Very good point. By forcing companies headquartered in the US to pay US minimum wage to all of their employees, regardless of where they are, we could prevent the slave-labor some companies are getting away with.

Re:Pay foreigners US minumum wage! (5, Insightful)

theLastPossibleName (701919) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916999)

Or even better: Ship the CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, C?0s to India. I'm sure every company could afford to lose their biggest salaries.

Re:Pay foreigners US minumum wage! (2, Insightful)

stomv (80392) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917042)

This is an interesting concept... it'd drive the cost of goods sky high, but it is something that society might find acceptible.

Want to sell a good or service in the US? Require that all folks involved in its growth/manufacture/transport/assembly/management meet US requirements for wage, working conditions, etc. Of course, this requirement would violate nearly every World Trade Agreement and is therefore infeasible under current legislation, but interesting nonetheless.*

* The caveat is that if the US&Canada and Europe continue to push for higher international standards on wage, workplace conditions, etc, than the minimum international cost of employment will continue to rise, thereby reducing the savings of moving jobs overseas. Whether or not you consider this a good thing(tm) is up to you...

Isn't HP making money hand over fist? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916897)

Why do they need to migrate jobs out of the U.S.?

Re:Isn't HP making money hand over fist? (0, Flamebait)

siskbc (598067) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916950)

No. And they're not a charity, nor a soup kitchen. If they can get quality labor for cheaper elsewhere, why should they support a bloated, overpriced labor market?

Re:Isn't HP making money hand over fist? (2, Insightful)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917004)

why should they support a bloated, overpriced labor market?

But they aren't outsourcing the bloated overpriced jobs. They are outsourcing the barely over minimum wage jobs.

Re:Isn't HP making money hand over fist? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917095)

Because they already have loopholes wide enough to drive semis through to get out of paying taxes. So they don't support the American schools, which drive the cost of those schools up for the student, who then need the higher income to pay off student loans.

Nothing to defend (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916901)

As a stock holder in several tech companies, I appreciate them saving money and maximizing my return on the funds I saw fit to invest in them.

Re:Nothing to defend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917101)

So, they are minimizing expenses and possibly also minimizing return since there is less disposable income here. All in all, it's short term thinking.

Translation (5, Interesting)

DrunkBastard (652218) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916904)

"We've found a way to line our pockets with more money, so why shouldn't we use cheap, hard to understand overseas techs? We're greedy, plain and simple."

Outsourced CEO (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916909)

'There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore,' Carly Fiorina

Your job too, babe. Can't wait until we are ordering the latest HP Presario Tandoori Edition on Anandtech or FatWallet.com

Re:Outsourced CEO (5, Insightful)

elefantstn (195873) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916986)

Her job surely isn't a God-given right. When an Indian company produces products comparable to HP's for a fraction of the cost, her executive position will effectively have been outsourced.

Re:Outsourced CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916992)

I'm sure they can find someone in India who is willing to keep a chair warm at meetings, abuse the company private planes, and get the board to make 0% loans to them for half what Fiorina is making now.

Re:Outsourced CEO (3, Funny)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917020)

Windows Vindaloo. Yum! Instead of crashing beyond recognition, it simply shoots fire out of the DVD drive to scald you.

That's nothing... (-1, Offtopic)

castleguardian (711240) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916914)

...in Soviet Russia, minimun wage makes YOU!

I hear that the Bahamas are nice this time of year (5, Funny)

PIPBoy3000 (619296) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916915)

Personally I think it's great that they're moving my job, hopefully to somewhere warm. Uh, I'm going with it, right?

Trade restrictions.. (3, Insightful)

Mr Europe (657225) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916916)

Trade restrictions..
is this the American today ?

Re:Trade restrictions.. (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917032)

Why not? Most other countries have unfair subsidies to industy, and huge trade barriers to other counties.....

Until everyone plays fair, you have to protect your own interests...

Suspicions confirmed. (0)

irokitt (663593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916922)

Another reason to hate Fiorina. Always knew she was bad, and now this confirms it. Too bad for Compaq-a lot of my friends are still devoted to the Torx-screw legacy, but Hewlett-Packard doesn't sit with them as well.

Carly MUST DIE... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917027)

What a cold HP - WAY killing bitch.

You'd expect that from someone making millions (4, Insightful)

TehHustler (709893) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916923)

'The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S. Why should people settle for less? Of course people are going to want more, basic human instinct. Do they think that people are just going to want to work for HP just because its HP? Sounds like Fiorina is very much in favour of a form of slave labour.

Re:You'd expect that from someone making millions (1)

Buran (150348) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917074)

If that statement is a direct quote, she's advocating illegal labor practices. The minimum wage is called that by a reason. Pay people less than that, and go to jail (or whatever the fine is.) If you don't like the law, lady, write your senator/rep. Of course, don't expect too much -- people will rightfully ream any congresscritter who tries this, and they're too busy pandering to the RIAA to listen to anyone else anyway.

Problems (5, Insightful)

jlechem (613317) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916924)

Well I'm a CS student about to graduate with my bachelors degree. I've found that the pay for the jobs out there hasn't decreased it's simply the number of jobs available has gone down the toilet. I used to think I would have a job straight out of college but now I'm a bit worried. There are more people applying for less and less jobs now. I've had several interviews but lost them due to a more experienced guy needing the job that before I might have had a good chance of landing. And realistically how can they expect people in America to work for less money when our cost of living is so high here?

Re:Problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916996)

you are so screwed buddy!

Re:Problems (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917050)

The alternative is more trade protection, more high paying jobs, and everything costs proportionally more, and you wind up just as screwed, only you have less choice as a consumer. Oh, and people in these "sweat shops" get to starve to death at home, BUT THEY'VE GOT THEIR DIGNITY.

Re:Problems (2, Insightful)

roadhog95 (462989) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917064)

They cant. The cost of living will be driven down actually because of this. If the economy cant move products, real estate and goods (because people cant afford them) they will be FORCED to lower costs and accept lower profits.

More likely (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916926)

More likely is the fact that corp. managers don't want to share their stock / salaries with people that actually work instead of hanging out at the coffee machine and flirt with the secratary.

Finally fighting back (3, Insightful)

elefantstn (195873) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916930)

Carly's totally right -- what makes a job yours by birthright? Compete like everyone else.

Neoprotectionist policies help a few people out in the short run, but hurt everyone in the long run by imposing unnecessary costs on products.

Re:Finally fighting back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917034)

You are absolutely right... I have a forced labor camp here in south america that can underbid any European outsourcer...

Motivation is high here too we have had only 12 beatings and one public killing of the employee pool.

Re:Finally fighting back (1)

elefantstn (195873) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917062)

I doubt that tech support call centers in Bangalore are being run by SS officers.

Re:Finally fighting back (2, Interesting)

hendridm (302246) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917072)

Easy for her to say in ivory office while she's pulling in a million dollars a year in salary, not including bonuses. She's complaining that people are willing to accept minimum wages?

you want your global economy, here it is... (4, Interesting)

DenOfEarth (162699) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916931)

I'm not american, so I can't comment on what the loss of jobs in my field their is going to do to me, but I think this kind of thing should be expected if anybody wants the global economy thing to really happen.

This could still be beneficial to the american economy, it just means that many of these out of work programmers should look into some of their own ideas and start companies around them, hiring out to the cheap labour overseas. That would probably benefit more people anyways.

Outsource the CEO as well (5, Funny)

sacremon (244448) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916937)

Given how well HP has performed since the merger with Compaq, perhaps it would be in that company's best interest to outsource the CEO. I'm sure they could save a considerable sum vs. Carly's paycheck.

.

they already have (1)

ajagci (737734) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917096)

They have already done that many times and they will continue to do that. Usually, it happens when an ailing US company is taken over by a foreign company. Those foreign CEOs get paid much less than the US CEOs they replace.

Outsource your CEO (5, Funny)

AntEater (16627) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916942)

How long before shareholders demand that their companies outsource their CEO and other executives? It would be only fitting afterall, the problem isn't bad CEOs in America but finding bad CEOs that will work for minimum wage in the US.

okay... (4, Insightful)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916943)

The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S....

Well, isn't that kind of a fundamentally flawed problem? As a person pursuing a degree in higher education (dropping $100,000+ on said education) I don't feel like it would be worth it to work for minimum wage or less. I mean, isn't that really one of the points of college, so you don't have to work minimum wage?

Re: okay... (1)

irokitt (663593) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917070)

How the hell can I pay off student loans while making minimum wage? Shit, I might as well work at McDonalds if that's the way these people think.

HP CEO fails to understand basic economics (5, Insightful)

glinden (56181) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916944)

In her comment, Carla Fiorina fails to understand basic economics. You can't talk about labor costs and only talk about wages. The cost of labor is the wages divided by the productivity. It is only true that lower wages reduce labor costs if productivity is constant. But productivity is much lower in developing countries because of poor infrastructure, corruption, market inefficiencies, and weaker educational systems. It is meaningless to talk about wages without talking about productivity.

Re:HP CEO fails to understand basic economics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917038)

'The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S. Costs are driving outsourcing, not the quality of American schools.'"

No the problem is greed on behalf of BAD CEO's who need to line there pockets with ever more money for what little they do.

i'm afraid of americans (-1, Offtopic)

vertigo_ok (226953) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916949)

We're so lazy. I can't wait until I have my own robot slave to do everything for me.

God is an American. Bwahahaha!

Outsourcing (1)

SenorFluffyPants (714110) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916951)

The argument about moving jobs to hold down costs holds a lot more relevance when companies are struggling; when companies are doing very well, that argument becomes a rationalization for naked greed.

In other words... (2, Interesting)

Vexler (127353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916952)

So it is now, "It's not that you are stupid, it's just that you asked for the right to have some bread and water for your family."

Sucks to be a working (wo)man, I guess.

Minimum Wage (1)

ihummel (154369) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916954)

Why on Earth would highly educated workers be willing work for minimum wage? Why on Earth should we force them to by allowing companies to outsource every job they possibly can to less developed economies?

Re:Minimum Wage (1)

sacremon (244448) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917047)

Why on Earth would highly educated workers be willing work for minimum wage?

Talk to any postdoc fellow about that. It might not be minimum wage, but it certainly isn't what you'd expect a Ph.D. to be earning.

And so globalisation goes (5, Insightful)

lawaetf1 (613291) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916956)

Not that I like it, especially as an IT worker, but, hell, that's the nature of the beast. Our dirt cheap goods are possible because we "allowed" loads of manufacturing jobs to go to China. In the end all it really means is that we can't rest on our laurels. And that's probably a good thing.

so locality (1, Insightful)

digitalsushi (137809) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916957)

so locality will be the only commodity in the future. i can spend 6 years in school to become an engineer and earn 6 bucks an hour after i graduate, or i can go straight to mcdonalds and earn 8 bucks right off the street. 6 years later if they havent fired me, i'll be a shift manager making a hefty 9.50 and will be the source of fear and power for all the peons beneath me. muhwahahaaa

i dont care. 15 years from now if i'm making less cash than i am now and spending it with friends and family, i could care less. the internet is going to tear down and equalize all these partitions of money and popularity. newer innovations will keep certain wealth in the US, the rest will go elsewhere. face it, we have more stuff and now everyone else is going to catch up.

Re:so locality (1)

digitalsushi (137809) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917035)

oops. i did that thing i shouldnt do. i said "i could care less". i should have said "i couldn't care less". cause, thats the opposite of what i should have said. yeah.

Typical Executive speak... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916961)

Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co., said Wednesday.

Hmmm, I wonder if Carly would care that they can replace him for less than 1/10th his salary and probably do as good of a job.

Let's outsource the executive staff overseas first.

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

Vexler (127353) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917036)

Carly's is a "she", FYI.

But yes, I agree with your general sentiment.

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

EricWright (16803) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917039)

Hmmm, I wonder if Carly would care that they can replace him for less than 1/10th his salary and probably do as good of a job.

Her...

Re:Typical Executive speak... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917046)

Carly is a chick. She has a vagina. HTH, HAND.

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

herrvinny (698679) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917048)

replace him for less

He's a she. Carly Fiorina [hp.com]
Google Search Carly [google.com]

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

syntap (242090) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917057)

>>Carly Fiorina, chief executive for
>>Hewlett-Packard Co., said Wednesday.

>Hmmm, I wonder if Carly would care that
>they can replace him for less than 1/10th
>his salary and probably do as good of a job.
>Let's outsource the executive staff overseas
>first.

"News Flash: In a typical outsourcing language barrier gaffe, popular woman-CEO Carly Fiorina was replaced/outsourced by male CEO, Carlepak Fioripash."

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

dynamosteve92 (656199) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917073)

Carly may be allot of things, but a dick-swinger she ain't (at least I think).

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

Marqui (512962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917077)

In fact, simply getting rid of the outrageous "bonuses" the execs get would help most companies bottom line tremendously!

Re:Typical Executive speak... (1)

petabyte (238821) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917099)

Hmmm, I wonder if Carly would care that they can replace him for less than 1/10th his salary and probably do as good of a job.

Um, Carly isn't a him: Bio [hp.com]

Rest of the comment I agree with though.

She has a bachelor's in medieval history and philosophy. So that's the secret to the tech field!

recommending or specifying HP not God-given right (1)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916968)

either. I wonder how well HP would do if its U.S. sales totally dried up due to vindictive IT people taking business elsewhere? I also note HP better their high end on Itanium

Below minimum wage (1)

Xenopax (238094) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916983)

Sorry I'm not willing to work for below minimum wage so you can buy a new ivory backscratcher.

Nice Quote (5, Insightful)

ruhk (70494) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916984)

'There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore,' Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co., said Wednesday.

There were never any jobs that were America's God-given right, but the sentiment does make a nice dodge from the real issue at hand.

What these corporations seem to have forgot is that privelege goes hand in hand with responsiblity. They fight hard to continue to be treated by the government (and thus the nation, by extension) as a citizen with all the rights thereof. However, they forget that those rights come with responsiblity. They move jobs overseas, they keep their funds in offshore tax havens so they don't have to pay taxes, and then they want they want to be treated like legitimate tax-payers. Globalisation is a nice idea, but not when it only serves as a tool to cheat.

Holy cow (3, Insightful)

badasscat (563442) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916990)

"The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S."

Did she actually say that? Being highly skilled and not being willing to work for below minimum wage is a *problem*? I'm speechless. I don't know what to say. My mouth is currently agape.

This is certainly not a company I would want to work for at any price, if this is how they think of their employees. She probably thinks her employees owe *her* money for hiring them!

What about CTO's salary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916991)

Maybe this HP executive could take a pay-cut and let people who actually do technical work get the salary.

Often times I've been in IT companies that have downsized 10-30 employees while the CTO at 200k$/year remained in his/her job while being somewhat responsible for the financial failure of the company.

But hey thats capitalism for you!

Minimum wage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7916995)

The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S.

They expect educated/experienced Techies to work for the same wage as McD's employees?

Sounds more like greedy management.

The way I see it, they'll get what they pay for.

Re:Minimum wage? (4, Insightful)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917103)

No problem, just lower the cost of college to a few thousand a year, free health care, cut my rent, utilities, and food by more than half then provide me with public transportation that takes me from where I can afford to live to where I end up having to work. Do all of that THEN we can talk about dirt poor wages.

Funny how the executives never have a problem justifying their massive pay and perks.

Lower Wages (1)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 10 years ago | (#7916998)

"The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S."

Isn't against the law to be paid less than minimum wage??? Granted restaurants, etc., get away with it, but if the tips received don't exceed minimum wage when added to a wage, then the employer has to pay the difference to the worker. And these "highly educated workers" had to pay some money to goto school and need something more than minimum wage to pay off their college loans. Yeah, there are people overseas that work for less, but cost of living is also a little lower in those areas. I think anyone can see that trying to live, and by live I mean paying for a house, bus tickets, etc. not living comfortably, off of minimum wage is extremely difficult to do.

Sing With Me (0, Offtopic)

The_Rippa (181699) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917001)

Carly Fiorina is a bitch, she's a big fat bitch,
She's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world,
She's a stupid bitch, if there ever was a bitch,
She's a bitch to all the boys and girls.

On Monday she's a bitch
On Tuesday she's a bitch
On Wednesday thru Saturday she's a bitch
Then on Sunday just to be different,
She's a super king kong maya maya biotch!

Have you ever met my friend Carly Fiorina,
She's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world,
She's a mean old bitch, she has stupid hair,
She's a bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch
Bitch, bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch
She's a stupid bitch, Carly Fiorina is a bitch,
And she's such a dirty bitch.

Talk to kids around the world,
It might go a little something like this...

Have you ever met my friend Carly Fiorina,
She's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world,
She's a mean old bitch, she has stupid hair,
She's a bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch
Bitch, bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.
She's a stupid bitch, Carly Fiorina is a bitch,
And she's such a dirty bitch;

I really mean it,
Carly Fiorina, she's a big fat, stinking bitch
Big old fat fuckin' bitch, Carly Fiorina...
Yeahhhhh, Chaaaaa

All about Money (1)

filtur (724994) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917008)

As Scott Kirwin says add the end of the article it's all about greed. Saying there aren't enough well educated employees is a cop out. There aren't enough American workers that will work for peanuts. I will, but that still doesn't seem to help. Big companies said there where not enough qualified workers during the boom and brought foreign workers over by the plane load, now look where we are.

Morons in Tech Companies (2, Insightful)

LegallyBrunette (683605) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917013)

Then why am I in college? The reason people obtain higher education is so they won't have to work for minimum wage or less. What other impetus is there?

Re:Morons in Tech Companies (1)

keirre23hu (638913) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917098)

Well, there is something to be said about learning and the social experiences that college provides, as well as the opportunity to network with other people who may (or may not) be successful.... but I do get your point

It's hardest explaining to your employees (1)

GeckoFood (585211) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917017)

At my last job, our CIO gave a nice presentation to other company heads in the city. His said that there were a few things that were necessary to help employees with the transition. Paraphrasing, he said only two things:

Tell your employees not to panic.

Tell them to find something else to do.

I hope he shows more tact to his family when the stock holders vote his sorry ass out.

Trickle Down (1)

keirre23hu (638913) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917018)

So... as they eliminate tech jobs in the US, who is going to by products made by HP, Dell, or . I do not doubt the technical acuity of Indian workers, and obviously the problem isn't our schools, I am a Ph. D. student in Computer Science at a school in North Carolina where more than 60% of the other students are immigrants from China or India, or other Asian countries. The problem is the greedy CEOs. Maybe there needs to be legislation capping the compensation of executives. How many engineers could HP pay for Carly's salary?

the rest of Carly's quote (4, Insightful)

rodentia (102779) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917019)


. . .no job that is America's God-given right anymore,

. . . .except board and senior management positions of Fortune 1000 companies.

The flaw (5, Insightful)

bgog (564818) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917021)

It works like this. There is basically no job (other than service, like working at a store) that can't be done cheaper by people outside this country.

It is the governments job to make sure that jobs stay here. I don't think any job is an americans god given right but why does this lady expect an educated engineer to work for min wage? I can get a McJob for min wage. She is essentially saying that HPs workers don't matter to the company. They find no value in their skills.

I'm not trying to be paranoid here but eventually won't most jobs be shipped over seas to countries who with lower cost of living and governments who don't care. This doesn't sound good for our country.

Minimum wage?? (5, Funny)

KE1LR (206175) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917023)

"The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S."

Definition of Minumim Wage:

If they paid you anything less, it would be illegal.

bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917025)

i wonder if one of the higher ups at Dell has ever tryed to call his own tech support

Re:bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917085)

You want a PC for 400 bucks and you are not willing to make an effort to understand Indian English accents? You are greedy!

Network Folks... (1)

Some Clown (586320) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917029)

Has anyone seen or heard of any Network Engineer/Admin/etc positions being moved overseas? So far in my company, and all of our clients' (very large investment banks, etc) companies, the IT staff seem to be pretty well insulated. I suppose you could have everyone VPN in and just hire one guy (could be the janitor's day job) to "unplug the left cable from the 5th rack...etc." I just don't see it happening in this industry segment. 'Course, I could just be hoping since that's the segment I'm plopped firmly in. On a side note, my company has moved almost our entire call center, customer support, and a few other functions to offices in India and a couple other undisclosed countries. I'm always torn when this sort of thing happens: As a stockholder I'm seeing increased portfolio value, as an employee I'm a bit worried, and as a customer I'm just sick of calling 1-800-SomeNumber and getting Abu.

Hit the nail on the head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917044)

'The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S. Costs are driving outsourcing, not the quality of American schools.

We have a winner.

Ha. Hypocrite (1)

CXI (46706) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917056)

'The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S.'

Yes, says the person who gets paid probably hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to reap the rewards of the hard work done by "those greedy software programmers". Man that really burns me up.

If you pay minimum wage for a job to be done, you will get minimum wage quality.

Race to the bottom (3, Insightful)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917058)

Whether or not these jobs are "America's God-given right" is besides the point, Carly, you miserable bitch. Of course they aren't a "God-given right". Nothing is. The real question here is whether the U.S. will act in its own self-interest, or continue to throw its labor force into a low wage bidding war with the Third World.

No job, including her job. (1)

MacDork (560499) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917060)

'There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore,' Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co.

I wonder if she'll still feel the same way when all those overseas workers decide to form their own company and put her out of business with their cheaper products. When everything is outsourced, what is going to stop them from starting their own company without an American CEO?

Slashdot full of hypocritical libertarians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917061)

Isn't it funny how the normally big-L libertarian slashdot community suddenly turns into protectionist pansy ass liberals when the very own philosophy they push every single day begins to affect them personally?

It's not just tech. (5, Interesting)

jtilak (596402) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917063)

Lets face it. If you're a multi-billion dollar corporation and you can get labor dirt cheap in another country wouldn't you do it? Yes there are plenty of qualified, educated American workers. So what? They work for $3/hour in India instead of $20/hour in America.

We need some kind of regulation to discourage these practices or our entire economy will go to shit. George Bush wants to help ILLEGAL immigrants out by letting them work? Because he is so compassionate?? Give me a fucking break. It is about exploiting people and getting cheap labor so the rich get richer.

Globalization is not a one-way road. (2, Insightful)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917065)

People in the US always like it when they get the positive effects of globalization: cheaper products, good and cheap holiday locations and more revenue for US companies.
But when you get the "negative" side effects you always start to whine and scream around, e.g. when a German company buys a second rate car maker or some IT jobs are outsourced to India.
But, sorry, this is basically imperialistic egoism. People in other countries have - believe or not - the right to be happy and succesful, too. Especially if they are more competitive and innovative. You cannot always suck all reasources and revenues out of third world countries. Especially if these countries cease to be 3rd world countries and become first world countries. It is indeed not required that Gunjaraa the Indian with eight kids and 2 wives has to be jobless and live in a slum just that you can afford you second hummer.

Competing is the key here (1)

dgrgich (179442) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917066)

As a fairly involved middle manager in an IT shop, I've successfully fought off two attempts to outsource my techs. However, I lost in the battle to outsource my call center.

When I looked at the cost savings, however, I couldn't argue. My company saves literally $30 grand a year by routing calls to Asia. The quality of the service is slightly lower than a local call and I will always have closed minded customers who don't want to speak to someone with an Oriental accent. However, given that my customers are in-house employees, I don't have to "compete" with rival tech supports providers by providing non-Oriental accents. This means that the $30 grand I'd spend for a local call desk is not worth it to my employers.


At the end of the day, I truly believe that the cost competition is going to drive down salaries in the US or we're going to not have ANY money in IT or tech. After all, isn't less money better than no money?

alternate link (1)

fiendo (217830) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917067)

I couldn't get yahoo to give up the goods, so I went to news.google and found basically the same AP article at the Seattle Times [nwsource.com] . My opinion is, if they have the same labor laws as the U.S. then and only then can companies which transact in the U.S. employ foreign workers. This "offshore outsourcing" or whatever euphemism the PR teams come up with is simply a means to undermine U.S. labor and the laws that protect it.

So lemme get this straight (1)

ellem (147712) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917069)

Go to college and become highly trained in a field caosts let's conservatively say 40000USD.

Now I should get 5.25USD/HR? Same as the kid witht the jet engine strapped to his back to move a leaf down the block... That's fair.

Carly, dearie, I hope they outsource your job or drop you to minimum wage real soon.

Make a note (5, Insightful)

liquidsin (398151) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917075)

Take a look [infoworld.com] at the money being paid to Carly, then tell me again why any American should even consider buying HP ever again when she makes comments like that. An American company is paying her vast ammounts of American dollars, but when the economy's in the shitter, she ships jobs overseas. Good job. And no, I'm not American.

Business Doublespeak (1)

cybergrue (696844) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917081)

'There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore,' Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co.

However, she is implying that there is a God given right for big companies to make obscene profits and pay big bonuses to their executives.

Government shouldn't be in the HR business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917089)

If you think the US government is going to legislate some labor utopia you're crazy. Market forces can override the most well-intentioned of nanny states. If you don't like a company don't buy their products or purchase their stock. Or organize a boycott or buy a controlling interest and guide their destiny. It's the only chance you got.

P.S. I think victim mentality is so pathetic in the IT community. We have it so much better than most.

American workers say NO to low wages! (1)

Talia Starhawke (650311) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917093)

I really hate seeing American jobs going overseas, but from a business standpoint it only makes sense. It's not just tech jobs though. Americans have been losing their jobs to foreign workers for years now. What really bothers me is the fact that people think this is okay from a business standpoint. Where's the loyalty? Most Nike shoes are bought in the US, but they are made in plants overseas. If your customer base is in the US, why not give a little back to the people in the form of jobs and job security?

And of course people in the US don't want to work for minimum wage. I certainly can't afford to, and I doubt many other Slashdotters could either. With the price rent and other things going up and wages going down, it's getting harder and harder to make ends meet.

Were going to see the new megacorps in India (4, Insightful)

onyxruby (118189) | more than 10 years ago | (#7917097)

Were going to start seeing new megacorps out of India soon. We've even setup their back offices for them. We trained their accountants, their technologist, and we even set up their R&D for them. They have their call centers taken care of, everything except the front office. Some of these companies are going to start refusing to renew contracts with our megacorps and are just going to start their own with their fully trained staffs. Their getting the back office profit, how much is left for a front office? Perhaps they'll turn around and outsource that to the originating corp?

On top of this, can someone please explain how sending good paying jobs out of this company is good for the economy? Competitive advantage doesn't mean anything if all the competition is doing it. The jobs that are replacing these are the low wage jobs in fields like retail that don't have things like health insurance.

Twat. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#7917105)

"The problem is a lack of highly educated workers willing to work for the minimum wage or lower in the U.S."

Doh! We should have known better - spending big money on a good education thinking that it would allow us to earn above the minimum wage. Of course only CEOs are allowed to earn any money. The rest of us are just plebs for them to fleece.

In other news, the existing pool of lowly-educated people willing to work for below minimum wage is about to dry up. Just wait until those milllions of illegal immigrant Mexicans start demanding minimum wage too. Although soon there won't be any offices for them to clean anyway.

Isn't there a minimum wage for a reason?

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