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Rick Berman Doesn't Know Why Nemesis Tanked

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the well-'cuz-it-sucked-for-one dept.

Movies 1210

Steve Krutzler writes "Star Trek producer Rick Berman broke his silence today on the debacle that was the North American box office for STAR TREK NEMESIS. The film grossed $18.5 million in its opening weekend in mid-December, the lowest of any TREK bow, and its current domestic total stands below even that of the much-lambasted STAR TREK V. Read more at TrekWeb. Berman says he doesn't know why the movie failed and the future of more TREK movies is uncertain."

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Frost pist (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224831)

bi0tch!

FIRST REPLY TO FIRST POST (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224987)

you know you wanted it but you cannot have it.

anyone know a relatively cheap ($300) motherboard with 64-bit/66MHz PCI and gigabit ethernet?

3rd post! (-1)

thr0d ps1t (641973) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224832)

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Oo, pick me... I know! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224834)

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FP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224835)

FP NIGS

Re:FP (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224920)

no, you lose, you did NOT get a first post, you fat, pussing cunt.

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Troll 11 of 208 from the annals of the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

I'd say the future of Trek movies *is* certain (2, Insightful)

GMFTatsujin (239569) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224837)

NO MORE.

Thank goodness. Give the franchise a nice tombstone and lay it to rest already.

Re:I'd say the future of Trek movies *is* certain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5225003)

Tell that to Disney.

Re:I'd say the future of Trek movies *is* certain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5225005)

ST, TNG, Voyager, etc all rehashing the same old things.

Movies are just 1 episode spread out into 1.5 hours.

I suggest a straight to video relese for the next movies.

Q: What's better ST the latest movie or Planet of the Apes IV?

Apes win hands down because you know it's meant to be bad sci-fi.

Re:I'd say the future of Trek movies *is* certain (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5225015)

I have to agree. The Star Trek franchise needs a 15-20 year hiatus. It's just our of ideas. Enterprise is like watching paint dry. I saw Nemesis in the theater and it was just an average 2 hour episode. I'm a huge fan of Star Trek in general, and TNG in particular - but the Star Trek universe needs a break.

Unfortunately, Firefly got cancelled. It was 10x better than Nemesis or Enterprise. And there are no mid-season sci-fi replacements.

Did he even see it? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224838)

It tanked because it sucked!! Too many bald guys!

FP! ASSHATS! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224841)

BABYYYY!!!!

OMG! 1'M 50 1337!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Wake up movie people (5, Insightful)

Guru1 (521726) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224842)

The Star Trek previews sucked. It had no 'new' plot, it seemed like an extension of any normal weekday movie. You weren't going back to earth, you weren't doing anything original. Didn't seem to be an exciting movie, so I skipped it. Get a better plot and people will watch Star Trek again.

Re:Wake up movie people (4, Insightful)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224894)

Not to mention releasing it between the new James Bond, and the Two Towers was just plain stupid.

It failed... (1, Insightful)

Nightpaw (18207) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224844)

Because it sucked. Try making a good movie, and see how well it does.

Or at least give us more Wil!

Re:It failed... (4, Insightful)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224922)

"Because it sucked. Try making a good movie, and see how well it does."

Nemsis was an alright movie, it certainly didn't 'suck'. There was plenty for fans to enjoy. Whether or not it survives long term is a seperate debate.

The problem is it went up against too many other hyped movies. The truth of the matter is that the average person can only see so many movies in a month. (budgetary and time concerns)

There were movies I didn't get to see in December. Nemesis was a priority for me, but I doubt it was a priority for a lot of other people out there with LoTR and Harry Potter out.

Hrm (-1, Offtopic)

Nemi (627009) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224845)

I liked it myself. First post?!

it's obvious why it failed (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224846)

They didn't include Natalie Portman, those insensitive clods!!!!

doomed (2, Funny)

Rcknight (640267) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224847)

dosent he remember the od/even/end of generation rule?

it was doomed to be bad

I don't know why it tanked, either (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224849)

I don't know why it tanked, either, it's easily one of the best. Probably has more to do with the box office competition or aging of the ST generation. ToS had a strong following, which I don't think TNG ever developed.

Re:I don't know why it tanked, either (1)

kaisyain (15013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224899)

Are you on crack? ToS was canned because of a lack of a following. TNG went on forever because of a horde of rabid, scary fans.

Re:I don't know why it tanked, either (1)

Mr. Sketch (111112) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224956)

I'd have to agree with you, I don't know why it tanked either. I fully enjoyed the movie and even saw it twice and it was definatly one of the better TNG movies (but not as good as first contact). It definatly lived up to the expectation of being a good one by virtue of being an even number. Even my wife enjoyed it enough to go see it twice with me even though she isn't a big TNG fan.

It was just bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224853)

It was a bad movie. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Killing Data (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224855)

It failed because they killed Data, IMO.

Lack of Wesley... (5, Funny)

PantyChewer (557598) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224856)

Obviously its because they cut Wil Wheaton's scenes out of the movie.

Top 10 Best (Worst) Ways to Kill Wesley Crusher (4, Funny)

Faile (465836) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224979)

Yeah yeah karma whore and all that, but I couldnt resist :)

10. After slugging down six Shirley Temple's in 10-forward, Wes stumbles to the holodeck, which he commands to "take me to hell." His broken body is later found on the empty holodeck in a pool of vomit.

9. Wesley gets gang-raped by a group of female Klingons.

8. Riker gets carried away executing an order from Picard to "knock the little snot around a bit."

7. Data catches him tossing off. Uncomprehending, he requires a detailed explanation from Wesley, who dies of embarrassment.

6. Extensive lab analysis of a green slime found on one of the control panels uncovers the fact that our favorite ensign has, once again, been picking his nose. He is summarily fired and commits suicide.

5. Wes gets gang-raped by a group of male Klingons.

4. On an earlier episode, Wes got to kiss a girl who turned into a Chewbacca-like creature. Here, she returns, and they once again get involved. (Un)fortunately, once she gets really heated, she mutates back into a wookie and forces Wesley to be her cringing sex slave. She then tears him limb from limb and eats him.

3. In a rare episode involving characters from both ST and ST:TNG, Spock attempts a Vulcan mind-meld with Wesley. Wesley's head explodes. Spock barely survives, spending the next several days scratching himself and whining.

2. Worf notices a Romulan ship on the scanners, and sends Wesley down to clean out the photon tubes. Later, someone makes a comment about the needs of the many having outweighed the needs of the few.

1. Wes gets involved in a deviant sexual practice known as "tribble stuffing," not realizing that tribbles multiply any where. Even an emergency laser enema by Dr. Crusher fails to save him

Maybe Star Trek is dying? (5, Interesting)

Soluxx (545237) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224858)

Maybe it tanked because Star Trek is dying out in mainstream culture. We still have Enterprise, which is interesting, and Voyager reruns, but I can't imagine that they get good ratings. Sure the cultists still worship Star Trek, but I imagine most people have become less entralled with it.

Simple (1)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224859)

/.ers didn't go because they wanted to show support for Wil. Or maybe because it sucked.

hmmm its almost proportional (2, Funny)

hfastedge (542013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224861)

Success of trek (proportional to) minutes of wheaton. eh???

I read his site. He wasnt even called for opening night.

wilwheaton.net

(repruhsent!)

It bombed because (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224863)

The only people who watch it are geeks, geeks dont reproduce so they are slowly dieing out. You can tell how many geeks are left from the box office takings of bad sci-fi films.

Re:It bombed because (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224990)

Save bad SF-movies! Donate your spare cash and geeks to Clonaid.

longer episode (0)

REDNOROCK (597025) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224865)

I'm no trekkie, but I do enjoy watching the movie/tv show. The main thing I noticed, is this movie was more like a longer episode of Star Trek, than a movie about star trek.

Easy (1)

Textbook Error (590676) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224868)

It failed because it sucked - plain and simple. It felt like an extended episode rather than a "film" (e.g., compare it with something like LoTR).

Re:Easy (0)

REDNOROCK (597025) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224909)

great, now _I'M_ gonna get modded as redundant..

Re:Easy (3, Interesting)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224964)

"It failed because it sucked - plain and simple. It felt like an extended episode rather than a "film" (e.g., compare it with something like LoTR)."

That doesn't explain a bad opening weekend. It 'sucking' (geez, is that the most sophisticated opinion of the movie you could muster?) would explain a sharp falloff after opening weekend.

The truth of the matter is that it didn't have a lot of people rushing to theaters to go see it. It kind of fell off the radar with all the other movies out.

Personally, I can't help but think people wanted to avoid crowds. You know those LoTR fans, casting spells and rolling dice and shit.

The Wheaton Connection (1)

Desult (592617) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224871)

It must be because they screwed Wil Wheaton... Wait a minute... what the hell am I saying? His blog might have made me realize he's a nice guy and doesn't deserve to be hated for his portrayal of that whelp Crusher, but that doesn't mean that Wesley didn't suck like Courtney Love all hopped up on goofballs. It must have been the curse of that awful character being committed to film, even if they did cut him. Shudder.

you call that tanking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224873)

personally liked this episode of TNG, but $17 mil in the first weekend for any movie that's up to part > 10 is not bad at all

Yeah, smart... (3, Funny)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224875)

Ask Slashdot why Nemesis failed. You just know you'll get a ton of insightful and intelligent answers out of a question like that.

Because It Had Been Done Before.... (5, Interesting)

sparkhead (589134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224876)

in a better way, in previous Star Trek adventures.

It was retelling of Wrath of Khan without the great characters.

Just as "Generations" sucked, where they tried to put every element into one movie (destroy the ship, cold character gets emotions, major character dies, etc.), so did Nemesis.

Cause it sucked... (1)

Marty200 (170963) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224877)

Basicly they had a decent idea and they went nowhere with it... I just didn't believe that Picard's clone really hated Picard.

Maybe they should get rid of Rick Berman...

MG

yeah aging stars! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224878)

Marina Sirtis: old
Gates McFadden: old

Put Jeri Ryan in the movie, and box office ratings will go up again.

My Guess (1)

JayAndSilentBob (517888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224880)

My guess is that there just wasn't enough theater space devoted to it. On opening weekend, there were 2 screens in town (out of 30) showing Nemesis. Showtimes were about every 4 hours... It made it difficult to work seeing the film into my schedule. In addition, I never saw it make it to the 2nd run "dollar theaters" in town either. They would have sapped another 2 or 3 bucks from me if it had. I guess the other "big" films of the season just pushed it right out of the way.

Serves 'em right for leaving Uncle Willy out! (4, Funny)

Tsar (536185) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224884)

They'll eventually figure out the deep, dark secret of the ST:TNG series: Wil Wheaton [wilwheaton.net] was the glue that held that show together. He was the driving force that kept us all watching. His creative spirit guided the series, and to leave him out of a project is to incur the Wrath of Khan.

Seriously, Wil [slashdot.org] , got any comments?

hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224885)

maybe they should bring wesley back.

then again... maybe not.

Look No Further Than The Competition (5, Funny)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224887)

Didn't it open the same weekend as Rob Schneider's The Hot Chick?

My God, what was Paramount thinking of!

Surprised (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224888)

I went in with VERY low expectations and was pleasantly surprised. I definitely thought it was better than IV/V/VI/VII.

This was only a few weeks ago; it was a second-run theater but it was PACKED.

Obvious? (4, Interesting)

Faeton (522316) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224889)

I would think that the word "overkill of the series" has something to do with it?

That, and the movie before that, Star Trek - Insurrection wasn't good at all. Remember: Once fooled, shame on you. Twice fooled, shame on me.

The public might be stupid, but not THAT stupid

I didn't see it. (2, Insightful)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224893)

I don't go to see very many movies at all. Only films that are really really interesting to me. Maybe, 6 movies a year, tops? I'm guessing that puts me as part of the crowd that you have to draw in for the big numbers. (The swing viewers?!)

The previews were kind of interesting. I've seen every Trek movie in the theater. Just the plot didn't quite capture me. Something about Romulans and an evil bad guy. Looks like lots of action, but nothing that really piqued my interest.

In the end, I think the large part of my decision not to go to theaters was the DVD. Since I didn't have an immediate need to see it, I'm more than happy to watch it in the comfort of my own home. Plus the bonus material on the DVD. Not that I have a great home theater, but the "movie experience" isn't a draw for me.

Followed by the RIAA... (5, Insightful)

gtaluvit (218726) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224895)

saying something along the lines of "we don't know why the kids aren't buying more albums. This last boy band album was just like the others we've released, and they made millions."

Perhaps they'll eventually learn that a good script with an original story line even off a commonly used theme (see Big Fat Greek Wedding) will make more money than a rehashed overdone clone.

Bad editing... want better DVD Cut (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224896)

A lot of the movie was just... missing. IT was edited out to reduce the runtime. But that left huge gaps in the story. I actually have come to like the movie even more since rewatching most of the earlier movies and picking up bits and pieces of the storyline. If there's a good DVD edition, I'll quickly buy it.

It was released at the worst possible time (2, Insightful)

Drakker (89038) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224897)

Simple: It was released at the worst possible time. There was too much competition during christmass, Lord of the Rings alone must have hurt Nemesis seeings a LOT... Which reminds me, I havent seen Nemesis yet... what a bad Trek fan I make. Is it still in theaters?

Re:It was released at the worst possible time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5225000)

Of course saying that it had too much competition really means that it sucked. A good movie becomes a problem for the competition, not the other way around.

Sir... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224901)

If thou dost not know why it tanked, then thou hast confirmed that you're long overdue for a job-swap with the Paramount Studios janitor...

Not to Berman, et. al. (5, Funny)

fudgefactor7 (581449) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224902)

Why ST: Nemesis "tanked":

(1) The plot wasn't worthy of the talent arrayed; and,
(2) The plot was nothing more than an episode turned feature length;, and,
(3) It was all hype, no substance; and,
(4) People don't want to see a main character (Data) die in a lame way, give the man some respect, will you?; and,
(5) Retarded androids aren't funny.

Re:Not to Berman, et. al. (1)

breon.halling (235909) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224967)

(4) People don't want to see a main character (Data) die in a lame way, give the man some respect, will you?
(5) Retarded androids aren't funny.

I haven't seen it, but you're telling me that not only does Data die, but he's retarded when he does?!?! I have no idea why it would fail! That sounds like a comedy goldmine! =)

Re:Not to Berman, et. al. (2, Funny)

geekoid (135745) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224973)

"(4) People don't want to see a main character (Data) die in a lame way, give the man some respect, will you?; and,"

a little sppoiler alert would have been nice.

However, now that I read that, I might consider renting it.

well I didn't see it but.... (2, Interesting)

spoot (104183) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224905)

If my memory serves me well, it did open right around LOTR and I'm sure that didn't help. But I'd say that the mair reason it "tanked" probably had more to do with the current state of affairs of the TV series. It didn't have a monster promotion machine of a hit (read HIT) series running on TV to drive fans and other folks to theatres. The series is tired, so I would bet most folks thought the movie would be "tired."

I know it's obvious... (1)

Obiwan Kenobi (32807) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224916)

But the film was terrible!

The marketing was fine. But its when you get past that marketing that makes a film truly earn its keep. The "legs" of the picture as it were. And as soon as everyone got the word it was crap, and even when die-hard fans hated it, you knew it was too late.

This sounds like William Shatner's lamentation on the train wreck that was Part V. He was sure he made a great film, despite being angry about Paramount pulling funding for his grandoise ending (which wouldn't have made up for the awfulness of the film anyway).

Some day Berman will see what a terrible film this was and hopefully realize what went wrong...

Too looooong (1)

theIG (647290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224917)

Too many of these things go on far too long. Like friends, it was great, and now, the last few seasons have sucked.

Star Trek jumped the shark long ago (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224918)

It's been shown to death. The original series has lost its 'camp' appeal. TNG milked all the loyalty out of trekkies it could. DS9, Voyager and Enterprise are all -1:Redundant.

Add to the fact that every movie with the TNG cast sucked, it opened against LOTR:TT, and I'm frankly surprised at his shock.

Not even Wil Wheaton himself could make Star Trek interesting. It's over.

I'd pay to see Short Circuit 3 long before Star Trek 22 (or whatever number they're up to). Johnny 5 is a MANS robot. You hear me, Mr Spiner?

What made them think it was good? (4, Interesting)

deranged unix nut (20524) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224919)

1) The actors hadn't played the parts in so long, they had forgotten their characters.

2) The actors had all aged a good decade since the last episode and aren't as appealing anymore.

3) The plot had more holes than swiss cheese.

4) Better movies were released at the same time.

5) The previous movie was going downhill, why see another if the previous one wasn't worth paying for.

Dumb story? (4, Funny)

Typingsux (65623) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224921)

A sect of the Romulan Empire?
A super ship owned by a sect of the Romulan empire?
Picards clone leading them?
RAMMING SPEED???
Bah, I've seen better on sites like this [startrekstories.de.vu] and many other sites like it.

It's a rental (2, Insightful)

markcappel (610263) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224929)

It tanked because movie goers are conditioned to expect that Star Trek movies are "rentals" and not movies that require the full, wide-screen cinema experience. Make an excellent movie and the word-of-mouth will draw in crowds. Yes, I saw it in a theatre, and the 10 or so other people I heard murmuring after the show said words to the affect of, "I could have waited" (for it to appear on video).

What about DS9 movies? (3, Insightful)

Mothra the III (631161) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224937)

That series became pretty interesting in the last couple years and left some unfinished story lines. I would rather see movies based on that series coming up with weak plots like the one for Nemesis.

Here is the text for those /. the server... (3, Informative)

Kefaa (76147) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224941)

Rick Berman's First Post-NEMESIS Interview: Future of Feature Franchise Unclear
Posted: 12:22:56 on February 04 2003
By: Steve Krutzler
Dept: Star Trek: Nemesis
In his first interview since the debacle of STAR TREK NEMESIS at the North American box office, producer Rick Berman says the future of the feature franchise is uncertain and he and the studio are not ready to jump back in immediately.
"I don't think this is like falling off a horse, and you want to jump right back on it," he told Sci-Fi Wire. "There's a theory that there was too much time [between Insurrection and Nemesis]. There's another theory that there wasn't too much time. I, along with the people at Paramount, need a few months of perspective and thinking about it to then decide what's the best thing to do next."

The exec is also cautious about explaning the film's poor performance.

"There's no way of telling what happened," Berman said. "I'm convinced that we made a very good movie, and I'm also convinced that the movie was promoted properly. I thought the trailers and the television spots were all excellent. It's easy to blame that sort of thing, but I don't think we can in this situation. I think that the competition of other films may have played some part in it, but I can't be certain of that, either. It's very, very hard to tell."

STAR TREK NEMESIS debuted in U.S. and Canadian theatres on December 13th and went on to the #2 spot in its debut weekend with $18.5 million, the lowest opening weekend gross of any STAR TREK picture. The film's domestic total currently stands well short of $50 million. 1989's STAR TREK V: THE FINAL FRONTIER was the previous record-holder for lowest domestic box office with $52 million.

Check out the original article here.

It then linked to:
ScifiWire Nemesis

Trek Film Future Unsure

Star Trek Nemesis executive producer Rick Berman told SCI FI Wire that several factors likely contributed to the film's lackluster box-office performance, and he added that the future of the film franchise remains uncertain. "There's no way of telling what happened," Berman said in an interview. "I'm convinced that we made a very good movie, and I'm also convinced that the movie was promoted properly."

Berman added, "I thought the trailers and the television spots were all excellent. It's easy to blame that sort of thing, but I don't think we can in this situation. I think that the competition of other films may have played some part in it, but I can't be certain of that, either. It's very, very hard to tell."

Berman sounded disappointed. "Obviously, you want a film to do well," he said. "You work for a long time, and you work for a long time, and if it doesn't do well, it's not fun."

Berman went on to say that he's not sure what the future will hold for the Trek film franchise. "There's a theory that there was too much time [between Insurrection and Nemesis]," he said. "There's another theory that there wasn't too much time. I, along with the people at Paramount, need a few months of perspective and thinking about it to then decide what's the best thing to do next. I don't think this is like falling off a horse, and you want to jump right back on it. But we'll see."

Because... (4, Insightful)

MoxCamel (20484) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224943)

Star Trek has been squeezed for everything it's worth. Berman and Paramount have milked the franchise to the point that people are sick of it.

Berman: Give Star Trek a 5 year hiatus, and come back with something fresh.

No stake in the characters (1)

naarok (102579) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224944)

I used to be a pretty strong trekkie. I could list of the likely episode a classic was based on the openning planet Enterprise was orbiting.

I was less than enthused by Nemesis because I'd lost interest in the characters. With the new Star Treks available, I hadn't watched much TNG in a long time. Because of this, I couldn't bring myself to get into the TNG world or characters. For me, TNG was over and done with. Time to move on.

It's painfully simple! (1)

RatBastard (949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224945)

It tanked because like all "Next Gen" movies, it sucked! The Next Gen movies haven't been "movies" as much as Extended Play TV episodes. And Berman should have known that any Sci-Fi movie with freaking dune buggies (Dune buggies! HELLO! McFly!) is doomed!

It tanked for the same reason the last two Trek series (Voyager and Enterprise) have sucked! Because he's a hack who has reached beyond the limits of his skill.

Massive theater inertia (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224947)

I didn't go see it because I hate movie theaters, they suck, filled with noise. I love ST:TNG, I'll buy it when it comes out on DVD.

The only 2 movies I've gone to see in theaters in years (matinee) are Fellowship and the Two Towers. Just had to see those on the big screen.

I'm sure I'll like Nemesis, I just didn't want to go to a theater.

JB

oh , come on guys! (4, Funny)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224948)

Nemisis was the greatest movie of the year! What better plot than to have evil mirror images of the Star Trek Crew. This idea is so deep and spiritual, that surely they deserve more credit. And what's more, the survival of Earth was at stake! It sure doesn't get more exciting or original than that I can tell you.

It's good to see Star Trek follow the quality ideas of such exciting shows as Andromeda, and StarHunters.

Too much competition (4, Insightful)

Night Goat (18437) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224950)

Nemesis tanked for the same reason that UHF did in 1989... too many other good movies for the fanbase to watch. The Two Towers was still in the theaters, the James Bond flick was playing, and so was Harry Potter. All of these movies have a good "sci-fi geek" following, so people just didn't have enough money or time to see Nemesis. That's how it was for me, I would have rather seen Two Towers multiple times than see Nemesis once.

UHF was going up against Batman and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in the summer of '89. Plus, it's a weird movie. But it deserves more credit than it gets!

Rick Berman needs to be removed, immediately. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224952)

No, i'm not kidding. This guy doesn't know why the movie tanked. The ignorance and outright spindoctoring of his statements - read the linked interview, people - is incredible.

In his opinion it's either:

- The competition Nemesis had at the time
- Too much time between Insurrection and Nemesis
- Not enough time between Insurrection and Nemesis

He goes on to say that it's probably not also the meaningless advertising that gives the audience no real idea what to expect (other than kewl exploshuns)..

Why did no one go see this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224953)

Cause no one cares about trek anymore. It used to be a geeky haven, now it's typical TV soap opera drivel.

And I mean come on.... Scott Bakula? In a star trek series?

How is anyone going to care about trek if the maintainers of the franchise care that little about it.

I wanted to see it... (1)

dschuetz (10924) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224954)

...still do. But it looks like this is the first trek movie since #1 that I won't be seeing in the theatres, as it's about gone from my area now.

There were a lot of things going against it, for me -- a busy holiday season, a busy holiday MOVIE season (bond, potter, lotr are three I remember off the top of my head). Add to that some lackluster reviews, not a lot of strong promotion (so I wasn't as likely to remember, oh yeah, there's a ST movie out!), and a general feeling that what I had seen looked more contrived and forced than most, and I just basically forgot all about it.

I think one thing I was concerned about was that it seemed (from the previews) to be shaping up as a kick-ass action movie, which ST has never been. If they'd been offering something with more meat, storywise, then I might have been more tempted. Maybe. As it was, the main reason I wanted to see it was just because it was there.

Can't Believe I Paid Money.... (1)

marcyu (603036) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224955)

....to watch this movie. I even saw it on opening night. It was the worst movie I saw all year. I was pre-warned by my favorite local critic, Arch Campbell, that this was a "0" film, something he rarely does. I should've listened. It's almost 2 hours out of my life that I'll never get back. It was that bad. It needed much, much better writing. For a movie of a TV series to be an event, things must happen - i.e. a plot must occur. -Marc

out of theaters to fast (4, Insightful)

josepha48 (13953) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224960)

It stopped showing in my area to soon. There were 3 movies on my list to see over xmas holidays. Harry Potter, LOTR, and Star Trek. I saw the first two as they came out first. By the time I was able to see ST it was gone. It was in the theaters for 2 weeks and then gone. No wonder it bombed! My friends and I were PISSED! I could not belive that it left that quick. The nearest theater showing it was 1-1/2 hours away. Guess I'll have to wait for it to be on DVD in 6 months now, where it will probably do real well.

TWO WORDS (0, Redundant)

Cy Guy (56083) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224961)

Sorry, make that TOWERS [amazon.com] .

There is only so much of the Geek Movie Dollar(tm) to go around, especially to be spent at the theatre itself. Going up against LotR 2T was just too much of a challenge.

It was also a very competitive holiday movie market for sequels in general with Harry Potter and James Bond also releasing new franchise entries.

Is Berman retarded? (1)

xenoweeno (246136) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224962)

Because it was opposite The Twin Towers, maybe?

Because the plot was thin?

Because Berman and the other chucklehead refuse to deliver plots of the quality of TNG's when it was in its stride?

It jumped the Shark (2, Interesting)

sailboatfool (178278) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224963)

Need I say more?

There's something about all the TNG movies... (1)

DeadVulcan (182139) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224968)

...that make them seem like two-hour-long television episodes.

Do others agree? Why do you think this is?

My brother and I were debating this a little bit. We couldn't put our fingers on what it was, but we had theories like poor sets, poor lighting, the pacing of the stories, or something about the cinematography.

We both agreed that they are making a mistake in trying to give all the cast members a chance to shine, because the tightness of the stories have suffered as a result. They have too many parts to fill. But neither of us thought that this was the reason for the movies' "TV-ness".

Anyone have any theories?

Answer: the Internet (1)

ldenison (137217) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224969)

One of the (many) reasons it tanked so early out of the gate is due to the internet. When Star Trek V was out in theaters, people still went to see it before they knew just how dumb it would be. Now, with the wonders of the internet - everyone can check reviews, see Joe Commoner's opinion, read tons of rants, etc.

The word of mouth on this movie was so bad, I'm sure it kept many people at home.

It tanked because *other* Star Trek sucks (3, Insightful)

myawn (562028) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224971)

I finally saw Nemesis, and actually thought it was a pretty good flick.

But I didn't see it opening weekend or soon thereafter, because Berman & Co. have been churning out so much crap lately (Voyager, Enterprise) that I did not have high expectations for the movie.

And even though I enjoyed this one, I have no particular burning desire to see another. You can't miss something if it refuses to go away -- give the franchise a rest for a while, and then people might care about seeing a new feature file.

Easy (1)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224975)

It takes more than one strong character (Picard) to make a good movie nowadays.

The timing of its release was also horrible. With this economy, if anyone had to choose between Star Trek and LOTR:TTT, I think it is obvious which was picked. [boxofficemojo.com]

Rick Berman is the Problem. (2, Insightful)

Grenade of Antioch (635095) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224976)

In the old days, real science fiction writers wrote episodes of Star Trek. Excellent wrting made for a compelling show.

Unfortunately, since Next Generation, it seems the writing has suffered and "special effects" and a preachy political correctness has been more a focus for the producers.

Star Trek was charming because it told good stories. It hasn't in a while. No quantity of Vulcan or Borg hotties in decon showers can fix the fact that the writing has been lame for years.

Nemesis was doomed before it was conceived. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224980)

Nemesis was easily one of my favorite Trek movies. Say what you will about parallels to James Bond or Wrath of Khan, it was a couple hours of good, fun entertainment.

Its predecessors were not.

Star Trek 7, 8, and 9 were miserable, hippy-like mockeries of Star Trek. Star Trek 9 might as well have had a soundtrack by the Grateful Dead, it was so frickin' hippy-infested. They may as well have had the uniforms replaced with tye-dye hemp, and had Crusher start prescribing some ganja for "medical purposes."

Rick Berman doesn't realize why Nemesis failed? Rick Berman and his "I sure do love beating this dead horse" mentality made Nemesis fail. He's a bit like Saturday Night Live -- If he doesn't have a good idea, he just resurrects some tired old idea that used to be good, and does it a quarter million times until he finally thinks of something.

Trek not made for Film? (2, Insightful)

bpfinn (557273) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224981)

Personally, I find myself enjoying the TV series more, because they have more time to develop the characters and storylines. A character can evolve over the course of a series, and threads of stories can continue to emerge over the length of the show. Movies, on the other hand, need to tell one compelling story in a short amount of time. That's also why short stories tend to translate well to movies, but novels don't.

Sucked = Tanked (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224984)

Too often poor movies are not punished at the box office. But the internet age, word of mouth is replaced by word of net, and the word of net was that it clearly sucked. Trek Fans are certainly overrepresented on the net. Q.E.D.

It certainly wasn't the competition. I was strongly tempted to see it, but I heard how weak it was and didn't. My friends also; most didn't bother.

Rick Berman is an idiot, and the article makes this clearer than ever. If someone with some talent can't step in, then let the franchise die.

Star Trek 11: The Search for Data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224985)

A one person movie. Brent Spiner portays B4 in his search of himself, the real Data. In the end, Data manages to be fully integrated into B4's neural network. Cheap to make. Lots of storyline possibilities.

Also, Star Trek 12: The Search for William Riker. What happened to him during his time in Cardassia? Is he dead? Leading a rebel force of some sort? Was he taken by the Dominion?

Better writers? (1)

dokhebi (89124) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224986)

Maybe Star Trek is suffering from a lack of good Science Fiction writers. If Rick Berman would hang out at a World Science Fiction Convention, or a WesterCon, or (fill in any fan run convention) and met some real SF authors (Niven, Pournell, Vinge, etc) instead of the type of mold that inhabits Hollywood he might hire somone who knows SF and can write.

(Please note: the authors I mentioned were the ones I could come up with quickly because they are all local to me...)

Well (4, Insightful)

mr.nicholas (219881) | more than 11 years ago | (#5224988)

Berman says he doesn't know why the movie failed...

Ummm... because it sucked?

Seriously though, it's not that hard to figure out why this movie didn't do well

  1. Low Directorial (?) quality
  2. Stale main characters
  3. Impossible physics (two starships colliding in space and NOT being ripped to shreds??)
  4. A very old looking ageless android
  5. Predictable
  6. A never-seen-before enemy that we could care less about
  7. Complete and utter lack of tension
  8. Out-of-character dialog
  9. The feeling that flashiness was supplanting quality

Granted most of those points exist for ANY Star Trek production you can name, but we expect more in movies. Or should.

WHy it failed.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224995)

These are my personal reasons as to why it failed as I am a hardcore trekker.

1) Lack of storyline. I enjoyed the premise but it was like 1 giant episode.. not a movie. $18.5 million is pretty crappy. Im sure at least $10million was for Brent Spiner's role alone. This movie could be one of them that will stay in the red as far as profits go.

2) Whil Weaton. WTF: I thought his ass was shifting through dimensions last time I checked.

3) ST isnt popular anymore. I still hold it dear in my heart but it isnt as widespread as it use to be. Its starting to turn into a niche thing. Red Dwarf here I come! Its failed for many reasons: Gene died, needed better scriptwriters. I give Rick Berman Credit on all he's done to continue the journey.. I just feel like Star Trek is finally on its last leg.

4) Deanna troi wasnt nake enough

-Hidari

The Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5224997)

It's dead, Jim

Why Nemesis tanked? (1)

Jack William Bell (84469) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225001)

Well, mostly because of Rick Berman. In my /. journal entry after I saw the film [slashdot.org] I said: "Well, now that I have seen Nemesis I can positively state, without fear of contradiction, that someone really needs to kick Rick Berman's ass. There is probably a line forming as I speak. If the people that own the franchise want to keep it viable they will make certain he has nothing ever to do with another Star Trek film."

Many Choices For Movies (1)

mrs clear plastic (229108) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225004)

Perhaps the reason that the results are a bit
slow for Star Trek is that there was so much that
was a very large selection of movies to see during
the last holiday season.

I think that the biggest hits (those that occupied
the most screens at the local multiplex) were
the new Harry Potter movie and the new Lord Of
The Rings movie.

For my own preferences, I chose to stay away from all of the 'blockbusters' and was selective in what I saw. One that was really good was the one about the culture behind linux and the Free Software movement. I can't remember the title,
bit it was a full length movie shown at a real
movie theater and it starred the likes of Stallman, Linus, and Raymond. Others I saw included The Fast Runner and Chicago.

This brings up another rant of my own. It seems that the bigger the 'blockbuster' you see, the more time you waste seeing ads and previews. I counted 7 ads and 7 previews when I saw the new James Bond movie. That admission was $9.00.
When I saw The Fast Runner, there was only one
preview. That admission was only $6.00. Go
figure.

Not surprised (1)

SataiCam (466754) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225011)

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but the flop might have something to do with opening it in the middle of the Lord of the Rings rush.

In general, I wasn't all that happy. Next Gen was always my favorite of the series, and I really hoped to see the entire crew get some serious screen time, not just Picard and Data as per the previous movies. As it was, I was disappointed on that front--moreso knowing it was the last chance to get it right.

I also fell asleep in the middle. That's never a good sign.

I hate to see it do badly, and I hate for the Next Gen crew to go out on this note, but so it goes.

Why Trek Failed under Berman (1)

dougermouse (581787) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225013)

This has been a topic of much discussion among my friends and I, and here is my list of why the reason ST has become a laughing stock. 1. The ship is one of the characters in the ST universe. When the new 'Big E' was just put up on the screen, no nothing, it severed a lot of the emotional ties us long time fans had to the ship. 2. Time Travel as the Dues Ex Machina ending. It was over done in the series and the Wayback machine endings just smack of poor writing, and fan's won't put it up with it. 3. ST used to pay attention to basic military protocols. Picard should have been tried twice for his efforts in the movies so far. 4. Stories. The movies 2,3,4 all referenced each other and actually had a feeling of continuity. The ST:TNG movies could have happened in any order, and don't have any flow. Episodic versus Epic as my good buddy The Illuhminator would say. I got more, but Berman will never listen and never change. I didn't see Nemesis in the theater and I quit watching Enterprise. Trek is dead, and I have only the ST:TNG re-runs to remind me of the good old days(tm).

The Two Towers (1)

TheLamb (183217) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225016)

I enjoyed the movie. However i had a hard time
getting excited before hand, due to anticipatshion
for The Two Towers. Which opened one week after
ST X.

why it sucked (4, Insightful)

LordYUK (552359) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225017)

When the bad guy was cold and evil and had it in for the captain specifically I felt like I was watching The Wrath of Khan. When the Enterprise was damaged beyond belief I felt like I was watching The Wrath of Kahn. When Data downloaded his mind, I felt like I was watching The Wrath of Kahn. When Data died to save the Enterprise, I felt like I was watching the Wrath of Kahn.

So the next time I wanted to see Nemesis, I dusted off my VHS copy of The Wrath of Kahn and watched it instead. At least Spock comes back.

How dare they allude to this being the last episode of the next gen crew and have Data die.

For shame.

Fire the writers (1)

jonsmirl (114798) | more than 11 years ago | (#5225019)

Fire the Star Trek writers and hire the ones from Alias. More happens in one Alias episode that five Star Trek movies combined.

Star Trek should fire their entire staff of writers every two years just to get new ideas into the mix. It's like the current writers can only come up with one plot idea a year and they have to stretch it into two movies and three episodes.

Enterprise is just remakes of other Star Trek episodes. It's lame and I don't even watch it any more.

Bottom line: put more content in the shows.
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