Old and New Technology in the Land of None 227
ninthwave writes "The Guardian has this article on the adventures of piano tuners in the Amazon. I think it is a nice lesson in the age of technology to see the perceived hardships of using technology in areas where the natives are quite happy without. More impressive is the old wooden piano seems to survive better than the new synth but that is horse of a different colour."
Piano in the amazon? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Piano in the amazon? (Score:1)
Go figure.
Re:Piano in the amazon? (Score:1)
Re:Not a hard choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead, it's the story of a bunch of British folks playing Beatles songs with the villagers, who have been Catholicized and are wearing American t-shirts and plastic flip-flops.
How sad. And mildly offensive.
(Oh
Re:Not a hard choice (Score:2, Interesting)
"When our 11-strong team landed at Gunn's Strip, it seemed as if the whole of the tribe had turned out to meet us. But if any of us had been expecting half-naked, blowpipe-wielding savages, we were disappointed. The American missionaries who converted the tribe in the 1950s taught them Christian modesty, and they now favour shorts and T-shirts, largely supplied by visitors and aid agencies. The footwear of choice is the plastic flip-flop."
Good ol' Christian missionaries.
They're people, not savages. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They're people, not savages. (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, although a strict hands-off approach like the fictional directive is probably not a good idea in these circumstances, rapidly changing a culture can cause serious harm that's often not recognized until later, and usually can't be undone. And missionaries have a long history of carelessness and even intentional destruction.
Case in point: they used to be able to support themselves; but they've been taught to cover themselves with western clothing that they must get from elsewhere, creating a need that never existed before. How does that do them any good in any way?
Re:Not a hard choice (Score:2)
Yes, National Geographic used to be much better when they showed more T&A.
Of course if I had the choice between circa 1979 basketball shorts or one of those weenie slings I'd go with the shorts.
Re:Not a hard choice (Score:3, Interesting)
phew (Score:4, Funny)
I almost didn't get to read this story on old technology, one of the tubes in my computer died.
God I loved the smell of the tubes warming up. . . (Score:3, Funny)
You want "eerie glow?" I got yer eerie glow right here buddy.
Plus you could use them to keep your bagel warm and nicely soft.
Of course you couldn't use them to mill grain like you could with a Babbage machine. There are always downsides to new technology.
KFG
Re:(OT) LCDs are three times as good as CRTs (Score:2)
Re:(OT) LCDs are three times as good as CRTs (Score:2)
And speaking of within the past year or so, didn't I see or something recently about a (fictional) novel about a piano in the middle of a jungle?
What needs tuning... (Score:5, Funny)
Not exactly apples to apples.. (Score:5, Informative)
I found this statement a little lacking in depth. The 'synth' isn't there to replace the piano specifically, it's there to provide a wide range of sounds. The keyboard interface is a very practical one for a classically trained musician to pick up and play. If it were here to replace the piano, it would have to not only faithfully recreate the sound, but it'd also have to provide the same feedback a piano does. When you play a piano, you can feel the hammers hitting the strings. This kind of feedback make it more natural to play. That's why it still has it's place.
Sorry for the rant, I just found the comparison a little silly. Kind of like comparing an alarm clock to the clock in Windows.
My comment about the 'keyboard interface that any musician can pick up' reminded me of something kind of interesting. Have any of you seen how the sound for the Simpsons is mastered? The sound guy has a guitar hooked up to a computer. He uses it to time when sounds take place. I thought that was a very unusual use for a guitar, but that's what he could play! I thought that was pretty cool.
Re:Not exactly apples to apples.. (Score:3, Informative)
Not at all. I have a guitar synth myself, a Roland GR-50. It has a special pickup that you can attach to pretty much any steel-string guitar; it figures out what string and note is being play and uses that to control the synth and to generate MIDI events.
I've also seen a MIDI "wind controller" that played like a saxaphone, and MIDI "drums" - both standard kit and hand-drums. Each of these input methods has different nuances - for example. with the guitar synth you can only play 6 notes at a time, as opposed to 10 for a keyboard, but bending notes is much easier.
Re:Not exactly apples to apples.. (Score:2)
That's pretty cool! Wish I had something more insightful to say than that, but I don't. It's starting to become clear that musicians have a broader toolset on the PC than most people are aware of.
Anybody else know of some cool input stuff like that? I've been looking for cheap ways to capture data like that (such as a music keyboard), I want to do a form of motion capture so I can animate stuff in Lightwave more naturally. It beats manually creating keyframes!
Re:Not exactly apples to apples.. (Score:2)
Sweet! But, ehm, it's Saxophone.
Each of these input methods has different nuances [..]
What are the nuances of the "wind controller" then? Only 1 note a time thus no cords...hmmm
Oranges to tangerines, then? (Score:5, Interesting)
weighted keys: so that it feels the same as a piano. You can't feel the hammers hitting the strings, you can only feel how hard it is to press the keys. Modern synths have this.
touch sensitivity:Harder hit means more sound...like a piano.
88 keys:There's no reason that a synth should have so many keys, since it is usually portable, and thre isn't a lot of synth-only music (meaning that the range could be dictated by the instrument). Unless, of course, its a replacement for the piano.
This doesn't apply to all keyboards because all of these features are rather expensive. But most good keyboard players get their keyboards with all of these features. Saying they're not the same is like saying that a piano wasn't a replacement for the harpsichord (which could only play one volume).
Interesting how we name our keyed instruments - based upon whatever feature they have that the previous instrument didn't. Pianos where originally called "forte-pianos," and synths...
Re:Oranges to tangerines, then? (Score:4, Interesting)
- On a real piano, you don't "feel the hammers hitting the strings". There's an "escapement mechanism" that releases the hammer before it hits the strings. There's no mechanical linkage between key and hammer at the actual moment of impact. Inertia carries it there.
- Harder hit doesn't mean more sound. FASTER hit does. This is how a concert pianist can play for hours without killing his hands and wrists. Want more sound? Lift your fingers higher so they press the keys faster.
- A synth is not a piano. It's an instument--usually contolled by a keyboard--that can produce a wide range of sounds.
I cannot perform on a fake piano. It has to be real. No "good keyboard player" has ever learned to play on anything but a real piano. At least none that I ever met.Re:Oranges to tangerines, then? (Score:2)
Eventually synths will take over. There's no sound difference some good DSP code can't fix and they're much more than just a piano.
Re:Oranges to tangerines, then? (Score:2)
Building a device to *just* emulate a piano seems so limiting.
Re:Oranges to tangerines, then? (Score:2)
feedback (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:feedback (Score:4, Informative)
My $0.02.....
Re:Not exactly apples to apples.. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, you can't. The hammer loses contact with the rest of the action before it hits the strings so that it can bounce back and allow the strings to resonate. Otherwise, by holding the key down, you would also be holding the hammer against the strings, giving you a nice "thud" sound.
But I'm just being pedantic. Yes, the action has a certain feel that is lacking in most synthesizers. There are a few, though, that have come reasonably close.
In other news... (Score:3, Flamebait)
Anyways, I might as well try to say something half-ways intelligent...
We often take technology for granted, assuming that lack of understanding is some sort of mental or cultural deficiency, whereas our general and almost complete in ability to survive if left in the middle of a rain forest without help is somehow a noble mark of civilization. Those who hunt and provide for their own food are somehow throwbacks in a technological society.
To ensure that this ties into News for Nerds, I'd like to point out that the juxtaposition of high and low technology is one of the central concepts to Firefly [fox.com]. I find it funny when people complain about the rediculousness of low-tech firearms on a spaceship... on the frontiers of civilization.
Hi tech/Lo tech (Score:3, Funny)
OK, I'll bite.
I used to watch Lost In Space when I was a kid. I knew it was hokey, but as long as I accepted it on its own terms, it was good enought for TV.
Then one year I came home from college, and I was channel surfing, and I stumbled across an old episode. The Robinsons were trapped on some alien space craft, and they were shooting their way out, firing those laser pistols they always carried, and then one of them starts lobbing grenades...and I'm just sitting there thinking...
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Low-tech or not, it'll kill ya, and dead is dead.
Lets face it, we're still dependent upon the 7 "low-tech" discoveries/inventions of the Neanderthals:
Most Important Low-Tech Discovery (Score:2)
CONTAINERS!
Yes, the lowly BAG. Hunting and gathering really, really sucked when you had to jam those tubers up your ass in order to free your hands to pick more.
The mighty BAG made it possible to carry your stuff around. Unfortunately, it made warfare and plunder possible, as it made it possible for other people to carry your stuff around, too.
Forget this fancy-schmancy "fire" stuff. BAG all the way!
Re:Most Important Low-Tech Discovery (Score:2)
Mind you, this might come under the heading of "tools" in general, oh, wft.
Re:Most Important Low-Tech Discovery (Score:2)
Still, fire enabled a wider range of cooking/food processing. And that leads to wider types and varieties of food. Mmmmm
Amazon's hiring piano tuners? (Score:1, Funny)
Oh, we're not talking about Amazon.com?
Eww... (Score:5, Funny)
Can you imagine when someone plays Beethoven's 5th?
DONG DONG DONG (squish)
Re:Eww... (Score:3, Funny)
Da Da Da DUM
So that should read:
Da Da Da (SQUISH)
Note the careful use of CAPITALS to emphasize changes in volume.
Re:Eww... (Score:2)
Re:Eww... (Score:2)
It's not that easy to cause a vacuum tube to short internally, although you can bypass it externally with a short, but I don't think a moth with all the moisture cooked out of it could maintain the conduction necessary for a short circuit very long.
Re:Eww... (Score:2)
Engineering is NOT high-tech (Score:5, Insightful)
It only has to WORK WELL, with whatever is at hand.
Inuktitut writing [halfmoon.org] looks cryptic. Yet it was devised by whites, and designed to work well with the writing implements available to the inuit: bones and stones. They weren't forced to use the roman alphabet which they could not transcribe properly.
Good design and engineering works by using what's available, not shoving down foreign and/or scarce technologies.
Re:Engineering is NOT high-tech (Score:2)
Re:Engineering is NOT high-tech (Score:2)
The depressing part of the story (Score:5, Insightful)
But if any of us had been expecting half-naked, blowpipe-wielding savages, we were disappointed. The American missionaries who converted the tribe in the 1950s taught them Christian modesty, and they now favour shorts and T-shirts, largely supplied by visitors and aid agencies. The footwear of choice is the plastic flip-flop.
A tribe that small, in that remote of a location, and Christians still feel the need to impose their religion on them. Quite sad.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
:P
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that someone even attempted to convert them, let alone that they succeeded, is bad enough. What was wrong with their belief system before that some missionary felt it their duty to "save" these "savages"? The history of missionary work is rife with "forced" conversions (Inquisition, anyone?). I realize this probably wasn't the case in the 1950's, but who knows.
Those American missionaries also taught them "Christian modesty", which could be a thin disguise (in my tin-foil hat world) for "American hegemonic consumerism". Why else would they favour shorts and T-shirts, or ask for an electric keyboard.
Again, missionary work isn't always about spreading the Good Word. In fact, it is based on the assumption that the indigenous Good Word wasn't Good Enough to start with.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Mmmm. Hmmm....
I realize this probably wasn't the case in the 1950's, but who knows.
Ah, right. So you knew your statement was misleading, and inflammatory, but you provided it anyway. And nice use of 'who knows'! After all, perhaps the inquisition *was* in the 1950's! Or, maybe they were whipped with noodles!
Those American missionaries also taught them "Christian modesty", which could be a thin disguise (in my tin-foil hat world) for "American hegemonic consumerism". Why else would they favour shorts and T-shirts[...?]
Too right! Why else indeed. Only Americans wear shorts and T-shirts!
In fact, it is based on the assumption that the indigenous Good Word[...]
Er. What? The indigenous... oh, forget it.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Hey, this *is* Slashdot
Too right! Why else indeed. Only Americans wear shorts and T-shirts!
Okay, let's try that again
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Oh, but if only it were! I won't sit around holding my breath, though.
As for American-(style/wise/ish) hegemonic consumerism, there's something in that statement that makes me want to hit you about the head and shoulders with a club, but you're too nice a person! Dammit. I can't tolerate niceness in response to a good, solid flame. It makes some of my wiring go all wonky. =p
Anyway, I'll express my origional opinion, like some other people said - even if you hear the pitch, you don't have to buy. It holds true for DVD players, and religion! So uh... I dunno. I can't feel bad for the natives, especially when they sit on their rears, and make the Brits carry the piano. =)
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
My wife went on a "mission" when she was a teen. (again, though I was raised catholic, I am not a practicing one at this point - just a disclaimer) They built playgrounds for kids, taught them about oral hygiene, and brought them stuff similar to tee shirts and flip flops. Granted this was Yougoslavia (I know I butchered the spelling) and not somewhere in the Amazon, so their cultural influence was less prominant than if she had done the same in the Amazon.
Though they were also willing to talk about Christianity to anyone who would listen, that wasn't actually their prime directive while there. They just wanted to help.
Granted everyone's idea of helping isn't the same.
But they really did go there with higher priorities than converting heathens.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
"Help me Jebus!"
that is my absolute favorite line EVER from the Simpsons. I am definitely not what anyone would call a "holy roller".
Though I would never personally go on a mission (though my wife did and you can read what I said about that as a reply to someone else in this same thread), I guess I would say that you and I would both have the right to travel to the Amazon to teach these folks anything we wanted (personally, I'd choose Pitch (card game) though perhaps that'd have bad concequences like it did with Homer and gambling).
Though I am not particular to any one religion, or even consider myself a very religious person, I see the value that religion has to many people. Why don't they mission to Muslims or Hindus? Likely, becuase they have God (sigh - yes, I did capitalize that didn't I?) in their lives and thus there isn't as much of a need to save them. That last statement is me playing devils advocate.
At least in the states, religions have historically competed with each other like retail stores. Believe in my religion or my god says you're going to hell. Well, my belief in a god goes to this extent:
Religion is good. why? cause it helps people explain the unexplainable. Why did my baby die? not sure, but it must be part of god's plan. Most religions teach the same basoc tennants: be good to your neighbor. don't kill. don't steal. don't sleep with your neighbor's wife, no matter how hot she is when she gives you that look.
regardless of if there IS an afterlife where you either get to chill with god, allah, budda, ect or some form of hell, or that there is NO afterlife, if everyone took the basic message that religion is supposed to get across, the world would be a better place. Treat everyone like you want to be treated (unless your a person who wants to hurt yourself
So no, I don't think the missionaries went there hoping to add a new church and thus a new stream of revenue. I think they had intentions of trying to bring religion to a "godless" people (much like myself) and trying to convert a hindu is a lot tougher than converting someone who has never heard of any gods.
Though you and I may feel this is unnecesary, if one really does believe in a particular god, then it is likely that you'd take pity on those who don't and thus would be unlikely to go to "heaven". You'd likely want to try to save them. After all, you genuinely believe that faith in god will save their souls.
That being said, I will finish by saying that I prescribe to the Bart method of living life (faith healer episode) where he says that he'll life his life doing whatever he wants and do a death bed repentance just in case...
:P
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:5, Insightful)
Hardly.
Let's assume, for the sake of understanding the Christian missionaries, that they ARE right, and that life now and hereafter DOES get better if you're a Christian.
Given _just that_, it makes sense to want to expose as many people as possible to their religion.
Now, if we discard the "the Christians are right" assumption and simply look at it from a general standpoint, it STILL isn't "sad." It's not like they're requiring them to make pilgrimages to Rome (Muslim tradition) or give up temporal desires (Bhuddism).
It's a form of charity, which, seeing as most of humanity thinks that clothing is a good thing, can be concluded as more than cultural self-interest and being real honest charity.
Please, drop your anti-Christian/anti-religion bias. If everyone in the world had computers, you wouldn't call Linux (over BSD or the existing-and-never-upgraded-DOS) advocates "sad" now, would you?
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
In that case, the neighboring locals can laugh at the misconduct of this small tribe.
Yes, it is. These people probably had a rich cultural heritage and religious views that were passed down from generation to generation in stories. Losing that so that they can be added to the Catholic Church's list of conquests is very sad.
Bullocks. If there's anything worth keeping, it'll be kept.
Look how well the native americans lost their culture and heritage to the converting of the colonists. (What? They're still around? Gosh!)
The fact is, if it wasn't missionaries--who, for the ignorant, aren't all catholic--it would be some other entity with a use for the land. Missionares actually care about the people, even if they have a nonscientific judge of it.
Let's compare the morality of the missionary to that of the exploratory scientist, who only wants them for personal or ethnocentric scientific gain, or the businessman, who only wants them for their market / land.
Nope, not "sad" at all.
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
The point is that an otherwise prospering culture has been given the shiny beads treatment. A couple simple rules to life: Diversity = good, Homogenity = death.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:3, Insightful)
Would you be so concerned if some people in, say, California became Buddhist? Aren't you sad that they've been hoodwinked by the mysteries of the East, and their diversity reduced? Give it a break.
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that "all cultures are equal" and should be cherished equally. Forget it. These people's precious culture didn't invent writing for them, or medicine, or clothing, or Christianity, but guess what? They like all that stuff. They want it. Don't ghettoize these poor folks into a nice little illiterate culture zoo just so you can be happy that "diversity is being protected". Fuck that. I say offer every last fucking tribe on Earth a refrigerator, some good shoes with arch support, and a writing system if they don't have one.
Stop treating the Wai Wai as children that you have to protect from our poisonous culture. Give them the respect and dignity that they deserve, and let them make their own choices.
One last thing... you say "Diversity = good, Homogenity = death". Please clarify. I understand how that works out in agriculture, or heck, even population genetics, but I don't see the relevance to cultural choices. Not trying to troll here, I'm trying to understand what you're getting at.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:3, Insightful)
Hear, hear. Whenever people start shouting how Christians shouldn't convert people to their religion, and that it's wrong for them to do so, I'm always amazed that they are forgetting the central tenet of Christianity: only Christians go to Heaven. Everyone else, no matter how nice you are, goes to Hell. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, they're all bound for eternal damnation according to us Christians, because they reject the divinity of Christ.
Given all that, it can only be considered cruel to not attempt to convert people (though I'll grant there are better, more civilized, ways of doing it than others...conversion at the point of a sword isn't quite what Jesus had in mind, I'm sure).
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
-Mars
How to help without getting involved? (Score:2)
Maybe you think the tribes don't need help? Or they don't need more friends in the world? Demonstrate your love for those people, then I will believe that you have their interests at heart if you tell me they don't need our help. I may not agree with you, but at least I will respect you.
Christians preach love. If we do not show love how can we be Christians? Christianity is about love - God so loved the world that he sent his beloved Son down to die for us.
If there are tribes turning to Christianity in the Amazon that's usually because Christians are helping them. They aren't stupid, they know a good tree bears good fruit. A useless tree that looks good but bears no fruit or bad fruit is often chopped down and burnt for firewood.
As far as I see, most missionaries are far from unhelpful or obnoxious. In fact the people they try to help may be unhelpful:
http://www.hillsdale.edu/dept/Phil&Re
As far as I know, it's the missionaries that build schools, hospitals and educate people. It's the secular commercial traders etc who come bearing cannons and opium. You rather the traders reach the natives first?
In many countries including mine the elite schools are the missionary/christian schools, due to the legacy the "foreigners" laid down. Even the non-christian rich battle to send their children to those schools.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Suppose you found someone on the side of the road, beaten and bloody, dying of their wounds. In their blood-loss driven dementia, they claim they need no help. Would you leave them to die, or help them get medical attention anyway? If you called 911 for an ambulance, wouldn't that be "meddling"? Sometimes you have to meddle in other people's business for their own good, it's called being part of a community and sharing social responsibility.
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Actually, it's entirely possible that every major religion--not just Christianity--is necessary for us to know God. Sure, I believe that Christianity has the facts right and is the most important, but I still think that God would have done something about the others if they didn't have something work keeping.
Abraham never knew Jesus' name, or said, "Jesus, come into my heart" or anything like that; but he is considered (by Christians) the father of everyone who has faith in Jesus.
Jesus, as the Word of God, is the motive force of the Almighty and is the part of that Supreme Being most concerned with us feeble mortal humans.
IMO, saying "no man gets to God save through Jesus" is akin to saying "no one gets into a car but through the openings in that car."
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
What part of "us Christians" made you think I'm not a Christian?
And, actually, Christianity *does* teach that only Christians go to Heaven. The various churches disagree on just what comprises a Christian, of course, but they mostly agree that, in order to get to Heaven, Jesus is the key ingredient. "Just being nice" doesn't cut it (read Dante's Inferno for a classical explanation of what happens to nice heathens...their Hell isn't bad, but it isn't Heaven, either).
Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
What really saddens me is that you, presumably a Westerner, seem to believe that all cultures are equally valid, and that the only reason you have the ideals and lifestyle you have is that you were born here (for some value of here).
I like to think that universal literacy, the scientific method, freedom of (lots of things), not getting shot with arrows, etc, are great things, not just my particular tribal taboos. I am genuinely sad for people who don't have these things, and would like to offer them the benefits of our culture.
They don't have to accept, that's certainly their right, but I think they'll be silly to turn down the things the West has to offer. Doubtless they'll take the parts they like, and skip the rest. What's wrong with that?
One more thing here, and I want a sincere answer. Why is the world poorer for the loss of cultural diversity? Are you worried about a particular dance no longer being performed? The loss of some pagan religion? The loss of a language (I'll admit, as a linguist that one gives me the heebie-jeebies)? The loss of wearing loincloths? Please tell.
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
(Sigh) I note you don't have any problem teaching them about the scientific method, or "freedom of (lots of things)", which are just as much a cultural construct as Christianity, and whose adoption would change their society. It seems your objection is not so much to changing the natives' society, as teaching them Christianity. Once you concede you want to change their society, the rest is just a matter of taste, isn't it? My mision civilatrice will include free Bibles, yours likely won't. Let's be careful here
(As a side note, it is not Christianity that will destroy the locals' oral tradition, but literacy. But I don't want to go there now.) Loincloths were cited in the original article. Actually, fairly sensible for the climate of the Amazon, if you don't have modern-weave "breathable" clothing.
And "some pagan religion" means just that
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Hopefully, they (random tribesmen) will enjoy the material improvements to life that Westernity has to offer until we finish arguing over philosophy...
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
Well, I guess the key word there is sophisticated. There are people who believe a book written by middle-eastern sheep hearders thousands of years ago to codify their superstitions is irrefutable fact. Would you consider them to be sophisticated? If not, then do they have a moral responsibility to follow the prime directive?
Missionaries believe they have a moral responsibility to help people and teach the word of God. Does that make them unsophisticated?
You selectively quoted me. I said another option is to leave them alone, but qualified that by saying that is not really an option in todays world. The world is a small place, ever hungry for yet more resources. Today, tribes cannot live in seclusion. If it's not missionaries who want to teach them about irrigation, food safety, medicine, and Christianity, it may be ranchers who want to kill them so that trees can be cut down and cattle grazed on the land.
The transition to modernity may have been started by missionaries, but it will be rapidly eclipsed by other influences, some with much less altruistic motives than saving souls.
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
An excellent suggestion."
Well the missionaries went in there first. They showed their faith and love by their deeds. They put their "money" where their mouth is.
Some even gave up their lives. In one case a bunch were wiped out by a tribe. When the missionaries' children came back to the tribe on a mission, the tribe were convinced.
So yeah maybe some "objective" scientist of your preferred beliefs (e.g. nonchristian) should go there and help them.
Well get on with it then.
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Re:The depressing part of the story (Score:2)
My argument is basically: a good tree bears good fruit. Fallacy or not, the native people understand that.
You can give arguments about Scientologists going to help some tribe in Amazon for all you want, but AFAIK that's just hypothetical fruit. Have they flown to the Amazon to give the needy tribes a much needed audit? What fruit have you seen from the Scientologists so far? Good? Bad? None?
Christians preach love. If they don't show love, then what's the point? That is the main crux of the Christian faith the good news- God loves us, he sent his Son to die for us. And these missionaries actually did that:
http://www.hillsdale.edu/dept/Phil&Rel/Biograph
Sure you can say the missionaries who died for those tribespeople were believing in a fallacy. But if you are results oriented, see evidence of the positive effect on the tribespeople soon afterwards. I'd say that's good fruit.
Yes, logical fallacy and all that. Logic is useful. Logic can tell me if the tree has theoretical potential. But when it comes to the crunch, I'll still claim it's best to judge trees by their fruits.
BTW, condoms have a pretty significant failure rate. So to me it is very irresponsible and misleading for certain parties to keep saying condoms = safe sex when it comes to AIDs or other STDs (HepB, HepC amongst other incurable dangerous diseases). Condoms are better than sex without protection, but far riskier than abstinence or monogamy (faithful partners for life).
Condoms are fine as a barrier against "accidental" life but not as a shield against untoward death.
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And I bet those "primitives" take good care of it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Who are the savages? Do people in the Amazon write on public pianos too? "For a good time call Zanthia." --- "Hey Zanthia, wanna have a good time!"
--"NO. And stop calling for me!"
Re:And I bet those "primitives" take good care of (Score:2)
You didn't read the part of the article about where they carved graffiti into their piano:
'Wai Wai Rulez!'
'For a good time dial Bong Bong Bing Bong Bong'
'Tinkatu is a Fag'
How sad... (Score:5, Insightful)
No comment necessary?
Re:How sad... (Score:2)
No comment necessary?"
Hey, if the flip-flop is good enough for Jimmy Buffett, it's good enough for the Amazons!
Re:Not sad. (Score:2)
Guns aren't necessary when dealing with primative cultures
You don't see what's sad about convincing people they should be ashamed of nakedness? (And "Lord knows" what else they convinced them of.)
all wrong, all wrong! (Score:2, Interesting)
Why does this remind me of some sort of
"Catholocism spreading to the brutes" scenario of a few centuries ago? Oh, wait, because it is that.
I guess them savage folks needed to understand the Word of God, I mean, it's our duty to inform them that they're going about living all wrong.
Pianos and humidity (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem was that pianos made for sale in Japan didn't handle the humid climate of southeast Asia and often became warped, as the one in the Amazon did.
I think it also mentioned some kind of treatment that can be done to the pianos at the manufacture time, to help strengthen them in humid climates.
New sport: Extreme Philanthropy (Score:5, Funny)
So our intrepid travelers return and are greeted be the villagers that have apparently just been shopping at Target. Flip-flops, shorts, and even the occasional T-Shirt that has the phrase, "I'm a lion hunter. If you see me running, try to keep up," on the back.
The cheap-clothing aside, the veteran piano-tuning-commando-squad makes the exhausting 8-mile trek through the jungle to finally visit the prize instrument and to taste the sweetness of the evolved musical talent that should have developed over these past years.
What they found is that the piano that was donated has almost cracked in half due to the fact the generous donation turned out to be little more than someone deciding not to sell the thing for $5 at a garage sale. (They must have decided they didn't want to move the thing out the front door every Saturday for a month while trying to get rid of it.) The instrument itself was infested with insects and their eggs, probably due to the fact that they generally kept the piano in a storage shed until visitors with cameras decided to show up. This explains all the Target type clothes since it appears that they are really cannibals that would eat visitors without cameras and take their clothes.
In the end, the savages did learn how to belt out a few Bach and Beetles tunes, but then just wanted a fricking Korg keyboard, "Like we asked for in the first place." I don't see why they didn't just ask for a PC and a net connection so they could just use Kazaa and download all the Bach and Beetles MP3s they wanted!
Electronics don't last.... (Score:2, Informative)
Trying to use computers here is a joke, they break amazingly fast. The trick is to use it all the time, so the circuits stay warm.
I have a piano and live in amazon, but i´m lucky.. (Score:5, Interesting)
There are two piano tuners in my city. One has serious hearing problems, which is weird. The other one looks weird, because hes not brazilian, but russian. But i heard hes a good tuner.
Keeping a piano is a challenging task. The climate has much air humidity, the wood helps changing its sounds. Also, we have problems with the extreme heat... But anyway, thats not impossible.
There were two piano factories in brazil, and the most popular, Essenfelder, got bankrupt. The remaing, Fritz Dobbert, still exists. There are in my city two music schools, Carlos Gomes and the Federal University of Para Music School (EMUFPA) [www.ufpa.br]. I used to study at the later one. They still have a really beautiful Yamaha piano there. When they were about to buy, i've heart they had to make a poll to choose whether to buy a white or a wooden one. Thank god, the wooden is there.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against people who think theyre trendy about white pianos, but sure Def Leppard making a Video with a white piano is a shame
Do you have one of those heaters? (Score:2)
Might help in your case.
Not a bar heater - it's kind of specific for pianos.
Juju magic seems more effective than modern tech (Score:2, Interesting)
Hmm, all these uber-geeks and no one else found it curious that an unknowledgable aboriginal fixes an electronic device that they couldn't possible understand? Anyone care to explain? Btw, no, I don't buy the "gave it a good whack" excuse.
yet another x-file
Re:Juju magic seems more effective than modern tec (Score:2)
"Lets see how far we can string these stupid brits along for great comedy".
Which of course started with:
"I bet you can't get them to bring a piano out here."
"Bet you I can!"
"Nah, no way."
"Yeah I can! And I'll even up that, I'll get them to bring a GRANDE Piano, AND we'll tell them our village is flooded!"
"Hahaha, there's no way they'd be that dumb."
But of course, my favorite part of the whole story is where all they thought they would have to do is "shout at them" to move the piano.
"Wai Wai strong, British Weak!"
Obligatory Simpson's Reference (Score:2)
They should have used... (Score:2)
Why?
Opporknockety only tunes once.
Prime directive (Score:2)