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Moby Says Techie Fans = Fewer Sales

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the grouse-much dept.

Music 1249

jalefkowit writes: "Launch is reporting that Moby explains the recent slide in sales for his newest album, "18", by describing what he calls the 'Pearl Jam Effect': bands and artists with more tech-savvy fans sell fewer albums than those with less tech-savvy fans, as the techies will disproportionately get their copies of the album from friends with CD burners or P2P services rather than from record stores. What do you think, are we putting our favorite bands in a bind?"

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THis little ghostse (-1)

GhostseTroll (582659) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753868)

... got first post!

Re:THis little ghostse (-1)

Whistler's Mother (539004) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753997)

Actually, it was downhill for Moby after Marshall Mathers, also known as Eminem, said the following in his latest CD about Techno musician Moby:

"You 36 year old fag boy blow me, its over, let go, nobody listen to Techno"

That pretty much ended Moby's career right there. Comment in Binary:

01011001011011110111010100100000011001100111010101 10001101101011011010010110111001100111001000000111 00010111010101100101011001010111001000101100001000 00011110010110111101110101001000000110000101100011 01110100011101010110000101101100011011000111100100 10000001100011011000010110110101100101001000000110 00010110111001100100001000000110001001101111011101 00011010000110010101110010011001010110010000100000 01110100011011110010000001101100011011110110111101 10101100101110001000000100010101100001011101000010 00000110100101110100001000000110001001101001011101 00011000110110100000100001001000010010000100000000

Above Binary can be verfied Here [nickciske.com]

Woe is.. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753872)

the super rich.

Re:Woe is.. (-1)

Mr. FullOfHate (584259) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753936)

Woe is your parents for spending the best years of their lives raising a callow fuckhead like you.

Well.,.. (3, Insightful)

ChrisMG999 (308536) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753873)

Well, if you like the music that a band puts out, you should buy the CD to support the band in the first place.

Re:Well.,.. (3, Interesting)

madbeaner (568435) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753927)

Well, everyone says that, but in the end gets a bootleg instead. Me? I only buy albums i truely enjoy, based on band loyalty. Even if i have it readily available for free, its good to support the artists you like.

Re:Well.,.. (1)

Patik (584959) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753984)

Unless it's one of my favorite bands and I'm sure I'll like it, I usually download it first and decide if it's worth the money. Strangely enough, this method as led me to buy more albums than it has led me to avoid.

Hmm (-1, Flamebait)

Rhiadan (552750) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753874)

Maybe his sales are poor because Techo sucks.

Re:Hmm (1)

ksheka (189669) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753901)

Well, I suppose that would work if you made the assumption that Moby was actually good.

Re:Hmm (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753926)

"i haven't actually made a techno album in about nine years" - Moby.

probably not 100% accurate quote, but that's what he said when Jon Stewart asked him about the whole Eminem thing on the Daily Show. No, he wasn't kidding.

Re:Hmm (2, Interesting)

Cyberllama (113628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753929)

No. His sales are poor cause moby has moved away from techno. Despite what what your friend slim shady seems to think, Moby's last two albums haven't been techno at all. Moby's current album is suffering because he's abandonned his entire fanbase. I bought the last cd, but theres no way I'll buy this one after my huge dissapointment with the last.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753971)

Moby.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753876)

Moby is a bald headed fag who can blow me.... And will be sure to get his ass stomped by Opie.
Nobody listens to techno.

Oh no (1)

dmarx (528279) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753877)

Moby will have to buy a new Audi this year istead of a new Rolls Royce. And he might have to fly commerical to Tahiti instead of chartering a jet. Oh horror of horrors.

Excuses, excuses. (3, Insightful)

Kufat (563166) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753878)

"Techie fans" have been able to pirate songs for years now. Perhaps Moby's latest album just isn't that good? I haven't heard it, but that seems like the most likely explanation.


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Excuses, excuses this time from the techies (2)

metalhed77 (250273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753943)

the tech has advanced, and techies are more likely to download music now that before. Better technology, and more users have made filetrading easier, so those who were too unsavy (or had a life) to use ftp or newsgroups can now use simple tools like gnutella.

your average 6 year old britney fan probably wants a cd because it's not just the music, it's a piece of britney. hell, i'd rather download the album, it is really only mediocre, but that doesn't make downloading it alone any more excusable. People before would be more willing to buy the cd because mediocre music could not be obtained in any other way. Now that people can get it free, why pay for it? There's no incentive to support the artist like there is with great music where you are truly grateful to the artist. I don't think this situation is right at all. But i'm poor and morals are expensive so feh.

I believe moby is right on the money with his claim but the times are a changing and little aside from legislation can stop them.

Re:Excuses, excuses. (2, Insightful)

Scanline (28688) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753981)

This album sounds just like the previous one, so I would say that the problem isn't tech savvy fans, only that they recognize a rip-off.

Pearl Jam Effect (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753879)

Yeah, let's completely ignore the fact that Pearl Jam hasn't made a video in a decade, is never seen on TV promoting their music and doesn't pay for FM radio play.

Maybe he just sucks? (1, Insightful)

rainer3 (517427) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753880)

Has Moby ever considered that he just might suck? And that's the reason for poor sales?

Re:Maybe he just sucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753902)

Yeah, everyone booed him at the KROQ weenie roast in Irvine, CA this year. It's a concert which featured about 15 different bands.

Re:Maybe he just sucks? (1)

Floyd Turbo (84609) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753942)

No, I can't accept that one. Remember that he's the guy who gave the following response, when Ricky Martin suggested working together:

"I would consider doing something with Ricky Martin if, and only if, he publicly apologises for performing at George W's innauguration and if he confirms that when he danced next to George W Bush at the innauguration he could smell brimstone and that George W Bush is in fact the spawn of Satan.

"If Ricky Martin goes on national television to confirm that George W Bush is the spawn of Satan then I will perform with him. Otherwise no deal."

Re:Maybe he just sucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753980)

I suppose story might mean something for those who judge musical quality based on the politics of the artist. Most of us aren't that PC, though.

Not how I see it (2)

Chardish (529780) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753881)

Techie fans are more likely to be legally conscious and aware of their rights and the copyright law. I, for one, download (pirate) MP3s, and see if I like the artist/album. If I do, I buy the CD, and the MP3s become legal. If I do not, I delete the MP3s. This exposes me to a wider variety of new music, as I might not be aware of music that's not commonly played, but all it takes is an MP3 download to judge an artist.


Re:Not how I see it (1)

jratcliffe (208809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753911)

While there certainly are some folks like you, who only use downloaded MP3s for try before you buy, a huge percentage of the MP3s on people's systems are there as "download INSTEAD of buy." Now, this doesn't justify the industry's "every copied MP3 is a lost sale," but a sizable chunk of downloads are a lost sale, so I think Moby's probably right about this.

I'd say it's a toss up... (1)

PrimeWaveZ (513534) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753882)

I think that while having more tech-savvy fans will open the possibility for more CD copying, it isn't the only deciding factor. I know that back in the early 90's, I used to get most of my music by copying CDs onto audiocassette, and I wasn't very tech savvy at the time. Likewise, I see a lot of people who aren't very computer literate making tons of CD copies of their albums. Could it be that the record just isn't as good as his previous works?

Re:I'd say it's a toss up... (1)

littleRedFriend (456491) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753975)

I can confirm this. Ever since my (old) father bought a PC with a CDRW, he stopped buying Jim Reeves records, and other old crap. He just copies it.

I consider myself a techie, I have never bought or copied any music from mr. Mobey. Don't think I ever will.

excuses, excuses (3, Insightful)

olim (103999) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753883)

I didn't buy it because the reviews sucked, and because it didn't seem like enough of a departure from 'Play' to be interesting.

On the other hand, I don't steal music.

i didn't buy it cause the mp3's bored me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753985)

it really was a lackluster album, that's why it isn't selling. Are we going to have to go through this now everytime an "artist" puts out a flop after an irridium album?
"it's not selling well because of those darned mp3 traders."

Funny those darn mp3 traders didn't interfere with the success of the previous album, which for some reason, obviously not linked, got much better reviews.

I dunno but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753887)

I bought it

"Pearl Jam Effect" (4, Funny)

pjl5602 (150416) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753888)

To me, the "Pearl Jam Effect" means that they haven't released a good album since Vs. Sure, there have been a few decent tracks here and there, but none of the albums since Vs. has been worth a hill of beans... Is this what Moby means?

He's just a sore loser (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753889)

Common Moby.. Put out better music and people will buy your stuff.

Excuses Excuses (1)

blazen1 (583950) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753893)

Let's consider that Moby's just seen a decline in his number of listeners and not experienced the "Pearl Jam Effect."

well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753895)

Its a crap album... imho

Hes a prolific artist, but... /sigh

Makes no difference. (2)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753897)

I do tend to listen to new tracks from a band by using a P2P service first, then if I like what I hear I go buy the CD - then rip it to OGG/MP3. In fact, I've bought CDs from bands I've never heard of before based on a single track I've downloaded.

Maybe I'm not the average "criminal" though...

Re:Makes no difference. (2)

Kris_J (10111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753910)

I've bought CDs from bands I've never heard of before based on a single track I've downloaded
As have I. Delerium springs to mind. I've also actually bought some CDs from MP3.com.


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i hate the way the record industry is covering up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753900)

... it's total creative decline. very easy to blame the internet, even though most of the content is pure crap

washed up (2, Insightful)

JeepingNET (522361) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753903)

Its funny how you only see the old washed up artist compaining.. Sure there are people not buying albums cause they burned the cd but I always download the cd before I buy it cause frankly most cds just have like one good song on them and no way am I going to buy an album for just one song.. Our parents all copied tapes Don't fear the technology, abuse it

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Pop Music Effect (1)

nitemayr (309702) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753905)

The Message Tim is referring to deosn't bemoan Moby's own sales. He is actually talking about weezer, and other alt rock bands. He draws the correlation between having smart fans and lower sales, because, hold on, this is good, because smart fans usually means tech savvy fans. So, many tech savvy fans equals lower sales. Why do you imagine O Brother Where are thou seemed like a golden calf?

18 isnt up to snuff (0)

gregarine (171102) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753906)

Well techie fans certainly will listen to a few track via MP3 or RealMedia before buying. Since this album isnt what 'Play' was they are probably not buying '18'. I listed to '18' via real audio and was disappointed. There is no 'Body Rockin' on this CD. It is very sedate and not dancy at all. Not to say it is a bad album. I was just hoping for something with a bit more jump.

Pick your demographic (1)

knodi (93913) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753907)

If you sell an album to every tech-savvy american, your sales will be lower than if you sell to every non-techie american. Ergo, techie-friendly artists (if that tech-friendliness comes at the expense of generic popularity) will not sell as much as britney $pear$

That's Brilliant Cracker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753974)

Let's but dollar signs for the S's in Britney Spears name, reminding people of Micro$oft in a humorous manner. Good idea. Cracker.

Yeah... (1)

jrwillis (306262) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753912)

I'm sure there will be a lot of people post saying that this is a bunch of b.s. and they will call Moby an RIAA sellout or something of the sort, but the sad fact is this is probably true. I know I buy most of the albums I download, but your average kid using a p2p program isn't going to. I think this would also explain why such terrible shit is always topping the charts, simply because the fans are to dumb to get the music any other way.

Re:Yeah... (2)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753978)

BUT, your average kid using a P2P program isn't the kind of person Moby is referring to. He specifically referred to "very tech savvy fans", computer geeks, that sort of thing... ie, folks who are intelligent and technologically adept. And, I hate to say it, but your average p2p-using kid is neither of these things. :) Although, it's rather presumptious of Moby to assume he HAS an intelligent, tech-savvy audience.

Read the stupid article, he isn't complaining! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753913)

"I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing," he added. "I'm not writing this to voice my opinions. My concern is the way that the industry looks at the success of a musician or of a record that sells or doesn't sell. Popular artists traditionally sold a lot of records. In the future that might not be the case."
---- Moby from launch

so it isn't possible... (1)

BathTub (75720) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753914)

that this album just isn't as good as the last one? or the novelty has worn off his style?

This doesn't seem to make sense... (1)

amarodeeps (541829) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753916)

Hasn't it been at least suggested if not established that tech savvy people, i.e. those that use(d) such P2P tools as Napster and Kazaa actually went out and bought more albums when they could get access to mp3s of those artists they wanted to check out (recent Slashdot piece on this subject [slashdot.org] )?

I maintain that Moby just sucks [slashdot.org] . If you suck people don't want to buy your music, that's what I've found.

Moby's CD is selling as well as it deserves to (2, Interesting)

Cyberllama (113628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753917)

It's just not that good frankly. Moby really needs to consider moving back to electronica, his past two cd's have just been sad remberances of the kind of music moby used to put out. . .

Behold the power of hate (-1)

Mr. FullOfHate (584259) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753919)

Moby explains the recent slide in sales for his newest album, "18", by describing what he calls the 'Pearl Jam Effect'

I am describing the recent slid in sales of Moby's new album by describing the fact that he is an untalented overhyped jackss. And he's ugly too.

the 'Pearl Jam Effect': bands and artists with more tech-savvy fans sell fewer albums than those with less tech-savvy fans, as the techies will disproportionately get their copies of the album from friends with CD burners or P2P services rather than from record stores.

No no no, the Pearl Jam effect is when people finally realize how bad some shitty band really is and stops buying their boring records.

What do you think, are we putting our favorite bands in a bind?"

I think it would be nice if you, Moby, and Pearl Jam were all killed in a tragic airplane crash. Thanks for asking.

Excuses.. (2)

olman (127310) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753920)

Moby fans are more tech-savvy? Really? Why? Is there geek music? Since when did Moby qualify? This couldn't be because his latest album was not that great and/or more of the same? No, I don't listen to the man, just speculation for disappointing sales..

I really do wish they weren't so anal about all this. If you could conveniently buy high-quality non-crippled copies of your favourite artist's songs, that *might* eat into p2p-"marketshare" .. But it's impossible until there's DRM which will give absolute control to Record Industry.

I'm just one person, but I do buy CDs from artists I like. First I rip 'em and then put the CDs away. I usually go for the "mid price" discs, tho..

the real reason (2, Redundant)

GoatPigSheep (525460) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753921)

Moby's new album isn't that good, he hasn't gone in any new directions since his last album. It's very predictable.

Blaming bad sales of a weak album on technology is pretty lame.

The Real Reason (2, Funny)

hazat2 (455418) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753937)

Moby's have no more linked to techie than 802.11b have to do with cat 5 wire. Simply he just sucks.

no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753922)

no.. we just dont buy shitty cds anymore.. no more dot.com money.. guh

who listens to their crap anyways?

I disagree.. (4, Insightful)

James_G (71902) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753923)

I'd completely disagree with this analysis. It's something I was discussing with a work friend the other day.

Artists like Moby are precisely the sort of artists who stand to benefit the most through distribution of their music through p2p networks. The reason is simple: Moby's music would be considered by many "alternative" and consequently it doesn't get a lot (any) air play. So where am I supposed to hear it to know whether I like it enough to buy the album?

If that's the case, then why hasn't this album taken off then? Well, I'd say the recent successes of the RIAA in getting p2p networks shut down has probably helped, but ultimately, maybe the album just isn't as good? Not having heard it, I can't comment on that.. Maybe someone else can. Maybe the marketing of the album sucked? (I haven't heard of it all until now). Either way, I think it's clear that blaiming the p2p networks is based on opinion (And FUD) rather than fact.

Defensive (1)

Oily Tuna (542581) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753924)

Wow .. listen to everyone get defensive. "Sales are down because Moby is crap now!"

Err. how do you know it's crap if you didn't buy it and listen? It's the album after the crap one that is meant to suffer.

err no (-1)

TrollBurger (575126) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753925)

-1 Redundant I know, but Moby's new album sucks the big one. I wish artists and labels would smarten up to themselves and stop producing and releasing utter shite. If Moby wasnt "Moby" (an artist who has had good and successful albums in the past), I doubt very very much that he would have got signed to his current deal based on the strength of this album alone.

ps. Techno is boring now anyway. No one cares Moby. Sorry. You were funny on 'Rove', but thats about it. Nice essays however :)

Nobody listens to techno... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753928)

And Moby, you can get stomped by Obie
You 36 year old bald headed say blow me
You don't know me, you're too old
Let it go its over, nobody listens to techno


Excuses, excuses... (1)

CWCarlson (2884) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753930)

My explanation for lower sales: '18' just isn't as good an album as his others.

Compared to 'Play', it's just bland and boring.

MDFMK, anyone? (1)

kwishot (453761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753931)

I don't know if anyone here listens to KMFDM or MDFMK when they existed, but MDFMK was dropped from their label due to poor record sales. The frontman, Sascha, attributes this to mp3's on the internet.
Many people here are posting comments like "Because they suck ha ha" but I don't really think that's the issue. These artists still do have large fanbases, it's just that the reasons NOT to buy a cd outweigh the reasons TO buy a cd. Maybe techies are more aware of the RIAA stranglehold and are "boycotting" -- I know that's a reason that I haven't purchased any cds lately. With the cost of cds right now (can anyone say !RAPE!) and the state of the economy, people aren't going to go out and buy cds all the time because it's just not worth the money.

Anyways...I just think that to attribute one cause for this is a really naive assumption.


Confusing Causality (Complex Cause) (2)

Llywelyn (531070) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753932)

Actually the "technie" crowd, while not the least guilty when it comes to trading music, are certainly not the most.

Saying that it is because the techies "trade more music" is really oversimplifying something which is, in truth, much more complex. There are issues such as the number of them who listen to the particular style of music, the percentage of them who purchase music, and so on. This is particularly relevant since "technical savvy fans" probably make up a very small percentage of the potential fan-base.

Seems that this is more scapegoating than anything having to do with music trading.

Only Windows and Linux users listen to Moby (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753934)

If album sales were down and concert ticket sales were higher or unaffected, then maybe this effect exists. Or techno is dead! Pixies rule, Pearl Jam drools.

Re:Only Windows and Linux users listen to Moby (-1)

Mr. FullOfHate (584259) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753968)

Frank Black is an egomaniacal pederast. Kim deal and her sister are ugly cunts who can't write songs to save their lives. Go OD on heroin you artsy twit.

Re:Only Windows and Linux users listen to Moby (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753979)

Pixies do rule, although I'm mostly a Kim Deal fan myself. In fact, Breeders' Title TK just came out a few weeks ago!

Infinite Repeat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753935)

Maybe his music is slipping because everyone has heard the entire thing on TV commericals already and there are alot of great underground bands [therecordindustry.com] that kick ass and are tech savvy without the benifit of infinite repeat on MTV.

Pearl Jam Effect (1)

blake213 (575924) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753938)

I don't think Moby knows what he is talking about. I don't believe Pearl Jam have ever suffered and lost money due to the fact that fans were trading music on the internet, etc. Pearl Jam have sold an insane amount of record over the years, and they also have one of the largest fan bases of any band from the 90's. He may be referring to the trading of bootlegged concerts on the internet, which really doesn't hurt the band at all. In fact, Pearl Jam encourages this. Pearl Jam is the last band to be worried about technology ruining them. They exist to make music and let others enjoy it. Plus, any Pearl Jam CD that comes out will definitely sell.

Size of the audience (1)

ghopper (580600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753940)

It's not the nature of the audience, but the size which makes the biggest difference. If your music appeals only to technical people, then you have a much smaller audience of potential customers.

If just moby... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753941)

would have done a cd a bit different from the last one!!

Who Cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753944)

I heard a song by that guy once, and believe me you, it sucked ass. It might have been the suckiest song that ever sucked. That guy looks like a walking penis. That should be his name, "The Walking Penis." He was in that video with that hot chick, and he never even scored. He should die. If you like his music, you should die. PEACE I'M OUTTA HERE!

Adverts (2)

mccalli (323026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753945)

Apparently, Moby has stated that he will not allow any track from 18 to appear in an advert. This follows the artistic slating he got from selling every track off play to advertisers, many of whom were in direct opposition to his status principles (he's a vegan, Christian environmentalist).

So...less people have heard the music. Fans will know there's a new album out, but the casual listener won't. Me, for example. I'm a 'casual' Moby listener - I bought Play because I'd heard the tracks on adverts and liked them, whereas I doubt I'll be buying '18' because I haven't really heard any of it. Except 'Made of Stars' or whatever its true title is, and that really wasn't to my taste.

Summary: no music in adverts = less exposure.


Re:Adverts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753996)

he's a vegan, Christian environmentalist

[ad slogan]

He's three, three, THREE idiots in one!

So close... (1)

Clue4All (580842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753946)

Moby explains the recent slide in sales for his newest album, "18", by describing what he calls the 'Pearl Jam Effect': bands and artists with more tech-savvy fans sell fewer albums than those with less tech-savvy fans, as the techies will disproportionately get their copies of the album from friends with CD burners or P2P services rather than from record stores.

I have a better explanation: his new CD is crap. What amazes me is the accurate correlation he makes to Pearl Jam. I stopped buying Pearl Jam albums after the first two because they went dramatically downhill after that point, and am most definitely not buying the new Moby album for the same reason. I guess he's halfway there, at least. ;-)

Not as good as Play (1)

greenfield (226319) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753947)

I bought 18 just as it came out. Personally, while I like it, I don't think it is as good as Play. In addition, it certainly has not has as much marketing as Play did. I would recommend Play to friends if they never heard Moby, not 18. Perhaps this sort of behavior could account for declining sales.

For what it's worth, technology is one of the reasons why I was exposed to Moby. I bought Play after hearing it on my boss's computer. She was listening to her MP3 copy of the CD she bought.

I say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753949)

Egotistical artists = fewer sales.

It can't be that people don't like his music, it's got to be that they're downloading it!

One of my favorite bands, Garbage, seems to have a love/hate relationship with techie fans. On the one hand, their second album was called "Version 2.0" and their third album "Beautiful Garbage" came with a program that let you remix a couple songs by yourself and share them with friends. They've also acknowledged their fans are downloading their music, and like many artists share the opinion that fans should buy their stuff, and I've seen lots of fans support that. I think real fans are the ones that do buy the stuff. It's the casual listeners, maybe who want a song or two, who are the ones doing most of the downloading. I know I bought BG the week it came out (admittedly, after downloading it and listening to it).

He just sucks.. (1)

firegate (134408) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753950)

This is just an excuse that these guys make up because of the low-rate material they put out.. rather than admitting that he needs to spend some more time in the studio, he ends up blaming the advent of file swapping (which is almost dead these days, mind you).. pathetic..

It a good, but not great, album (2)

Twid (67847) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753951)

I bought 18, and I really like it. *BUT*, it's not the revolutionary, fresh album that Play was. It's more like Play 2. Moby talks about this in his Wired Magazine interview: [wired.com]

There's no getting around it: 18 sounds, almost track for track, like Play. It even has the sampled gospel vocals - though in place of the earlier disc's rusticated "Ooh, Lawdys," 18 features more urbane, sexy-sounding shout-outs to the Almighty. Moby insists the echoes are essentially coincidence. "I want to make a good record," he says. "And if it means it has songs similar to things on Play, fine." It is a good record - and if Play hadn't existed, it would be a great record.

And that's what he delivered. A good album that is highly derivative of Play. It isn't a bad album at all, and I'm sure it will sell well. I like it a lot. But Play was revolutionary. But Moby is, by his own admission, an egotistical prick. It's easier to blame downloaders and copiers than it is to admit that he will probably never, ever, have a record as popular as Play ever again.

Yeah thats whats doing it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753952)

Mody is starting to sound alot like Joan Osborn. Poor Joan thought after she had that one hit CD and then started to fall off the charts, she said "Napster hurts us frings groups". Which she failed to realize is that A. she sucks, B. What fan base she had was very VERY little. C. She never made another CD that was anywhere close to the quailty that her first one was. Anyway if my point wasnt lost in all that here it is, DONT BLAME everything else on your poor sales, maybe your CD just sucks or sounds to much like the last one for people to care about it that much to go out and buy it.

I'm Not Already a Moby Fan, And... (1)

kmactane (18359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753954)

... if he's going to slag off the tech community like this, I see no reason why I should become one. Seriously, does he really think that saying "My record sales suck because my fans are all pirates" is going to win him any points?

However, that being said... this is also a wake-up call for the tech community. The mere fact that Moby thinks he can get away with saying this kind of stuff tells me that the RIAA/MPAA's public-relations smear campaign to portray all computer people as pirates is winning. This is not good.

Note also that the editors at Launch took his theory seriously, and printed it up as plain news.

We need to do some public-opinion shaping of our own, and fast. If we keep letting the music companies dominate the discussion, we're toast.

Nobody listens to techno! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753955)

Haven't we learned anything from Eminem?

Timo Maas dub (2)

twilight30 (84644) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753958)

of 'We Are All Made of Stars' kicks the original into submission completely. Sorry, Mr Hall, but your latest album blows goats.

First, you decided to release the same record again. Then, you whored yourself -- and admitted as such -- by putting yourself on the cover of literally every magazine you could find. To blame people with burners is missing the point. Hell, how the hell did you get to be where you are today? Aren't you the artist who lives in downtown Manhattan with the ascetic's loft and the loaded studio and the Macintoshes?

I appreciate Moby, I think he does valuable work, but when he says, 'I'm not blaming tech-savvy people...' you have to wonder why he feels the need to rationalise in that way.

Moby 18 (1)

epaiuk (216117) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753959)

I copied Moby's newest CD, and am glad I did. It really isn't very good, original, or otherwise worth $15. On the flip side, Moby is correct when he states that techies aren't gonna buy CDs...especially when they aren't good. It is interesting, though, that many people are perfectly willing to pay for games, having realized that programmers have to make money somehow. Perhaps the music industry is just where games where fifteen years ago....

My Code (1)

tunabomber (259585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753961)

I personally only buy CD's put out by smaller artists for two reasons:

1. I like to support indy artists, because they're the ones that need the money the most.

2. It's hard to find music from indy musicians on file-sharing networks.

So, that's my code of "piracy ethics". (sounds like a oxymoron, doesn't it?)

While I enjoy music, and I want to see it remain a part of our culture, I don't see why we need artists to be megastars and major labels to be money hoses for their shareholders for that to happen.

What Ever Happened to Fair Use!? OOOH-YeaaaH!

I'm a techie fan and I bought it... (1)

doc_brown (73383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753962)

I bought it and I'm real sorry I did.

To me it sounds like an alpha version of Play. Even the B-sides of play were all better than his latest CD.

Techie fans != poor sales, Bad music = poor sales

Doc Brown

Or maybe (1)

ckaminski (82854) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753963)

It could just be that "18" sucks??

I've heard my roommates copy. It's not very impressive...


TV Ad Music (1)

cmdrtebok (561430) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753964)

Maybe his album isnt selling because every song on the album is featured in a commercial.

Its not selling well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753965)

because its practicaly Play all over again, like a 2 cd set that was broke in half. Moby sold out, and sold the rights to EVERY SONG ON PLAY and he plans to do the same with 18. Since its just a rehash of the shit on the last CD, people havent really had the motivation to buy it.

blah blah blah (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753967)

You /. fuckers bicker more than two fat bitches fighting over an ice cream cone.


Penis!! (-1)

Anal Cocks (557998) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753969)

I like to stick my penis in 12-year-old boys. And girls!

Re:Penis!! (-1)

The Porn Count (549103) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753973)

You sick, sick fuck. At least I only LOOK AT KIDDIE PORN. What are you, some kind of Catholic?

oh yeah (1)

inversesinewave (470448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753972)

I guess he forgot the about the fact that he sucks '18' review [pitchforkmedia.com]

Moby's actual journal entry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753976)

difficult sort of update, sort of.
about record sales. and charts. and etc.
i've written about this before, but i thought i'd address it again, especially in light of the fact that i have a new-ish record in stores.
a while ago i wrote about the 'pearl jam effect'. i described the 'pearl jam effect' as being a phenomenon wherein bands who have very technically savvy fans will see their records do poorly in the charts, whereas bands/artists who have less technically savvy fans will see their records do quite well in the charts. this is owing to the fact that bands/artists with technically savvy fans will have a lot of fans who will end up downloading music or burning cd's, whereas less tech-savvy fans will generally end up buying their cd's. looking at the 3 week sales history of weezers new record, for example, has proven to me that this 'pearl jam effect' is strongly influencing the album charts in the states (and elsewhere, although not so much with weezer cos they seem to only sell a lot of records in north america). weezer sold a lot of records in their first week of release, but since then their sales have dropped off considerably. even though they have radio hits. even though they have a very loyal fan-base. even though they've made a record that their fans really like. even though there's good press coverage on the band and their new cd. etc. i would be very interested to know not how many cd's weezer have sold, but how many copies of their record are actually in existence.
i have a feeling that there might be almost twice as many copies of their new record in existence (in the form of mp3's or burned cd's) as have actually been sold.
i'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing. i'm not writing this to voice my opinions. my concern is more for the way that the industry looks at the success of a musician or of a record that sells or doesn't sell. popular artists traditionally sold a lot of records. in the future that might not be the case. in fact even now that might not be the case. pink outsells weezer in the states not so much because she's more popular, but because her fans are more likely to buy, as opposed to burn, her cd's.
i don't mean this as a criticism of pink, i'm just using her as an example. just look at the american top 20 and you'll see what i'm talking about. most of the records in the american top 20 are by bands whose fans are, for the most part, more inclined to buy a cd as opposed to burn or download it.
again, i'm not editorializing. i'm just pointing out a strange phenomenon and wondering at what effect it will have on the future of music. this whole issue of burning and downloading is too big and too complicated for me to really voice my opinion on it (not to mention the fact that having an opinioin on burning and downloading is kind of like having an opinion on the weather. meaning that having an opinion about the weather isn't really going to change anything.)
ok, that's it.
good night.

Is it karam whoring if i post as anon ?

Reality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753986)

Weird as it sounds.. as a 30 year old I find business lacking in coming up with convenient and affordable methods of accessing and playing music. Take a look at Japan where you can download music from a vending machine... why haven't solid state players and stereo components come along?
I buy my music once I hear it. I can't listen to radio because the people with the most money have their songs played 24/7. I have to use other ways.. friends.. online reviews and mp3s. I decide whether I want "The Track" and not necessarily the Album.
Please.. someone in North America design a useful music distribution system that eclipses the old style music system.
I'd pay a buck for a song... and if distribution to electronic players is done.. no media.. it's ultra-cheap.
You don't have to include the RIAA companies...I know tons of promising young bands that produce much better music.

One can dream.

obviously... (1)

crazney (194622) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753987)

obviously this is true. But I'd argue that the atleast part of the reason that this is the case isn't because we have access to p2p software and burners (other users do, too) but because we are more aware of how much both the consumers and artists get ripped off by the record companies.

Even if the p2p/burner stuff didnt exist, or there was copy protection that worked, I still wouldn't buy the CD's - because its moroly wrong.

Not the only group (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753988)

As opposed to da hood, where everyone gets hooked up by their man on the sidewalk with the latest bootlegs? Some 80% of hip hop buyers are white kids, I've gotta believe that difference isn't only due to the population difference that comes from being a minority.

Did anybody read the article? (1)

still_sick (585332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753990)

From the article : "I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing," he added. "I'm not writing this to voice my opinions. My concern is the way that the industry looks at the success of a musician or of a record that sells or doesn't sell. Popular artists traditionally sold a lot of records. In the future that might not be the case. In fact, even now that might not be the case. Pink outsells Weezer in the States not so much because she's more popular, but because her fans are more likely to buy, as opposed to burn, her CDs."

All too common ... (2)

lawyamike (199551) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753992)

is the grip that technology, disregard for intellectual property, or a consumership that is less respectful thereof causes a decrease in sales. I hate it when artists this argument for two reasons: (1) they shouldn't accuse their fans and supporters of being so shady; and, more important, (2) it's a cheap excuse for the flatline or drop in the quality of artistic content. Heck, The Thong Song was number one on Casey's Top 40 a year or so ago, and the RIAA is complaining that Napster reduced its CD sales? That's like the Marlboro Man blaming lung cancer on working at a gas station as a teenager.

In Other Words... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753993)

I was too lazy to put much effort into my new album, and it really sucks, so I'll blame my fans. Nice one. Loser.

The reason: the album sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3753994)

Lol what a pathetic excuse, I'm a long time fan and listened to 18 after downloading it, thank god it saved me precious money, I guess trying to turn commercial is not always a good idea.

Pearl Jam Effect? (0)

weeerdo (267629) | more than 12 years ago | (#3753995)

I thought the "Pearl Jam Effect" was the Eaglesization of punk rock.
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