Build Your Own Set Top Box 143
Kon writes "There is a lot of talk lately about how Divx and other type codecs will spawn a new industry upsurge in the manufacturing of player hardware. But what is the purpose of buying hardware when you can build your own? The only limitation is the software, but projects like Media-BOX and the Divx Project will hopefully change this ;-). And why stop with Divx, when you could potentially use this cheap home-made box to handle everything from games to HDTV (via HD tuner board) to Mp3s? Food for thought." Media-Box is Windows only, but its a long ways along. And that divx site, well, I can't read it. But this stuff is looking really excellent. I'm still itching for the Linux equivelant. I wrote a decent MP3 wrapper, but still want the online browser/tivo/mp3/dvd box. Its inevitable, but it won't happen soon enough.
How to build your own set top box. (Score:5)
Next get some bauxite ore and some copper ore. We're going to use aluminum interconnects, so the copper will only be used for the motherboard.
First off, take the sand and use it to form a silicon wafer 12 inches in diameter. (Note, previous versions of this howto specified 8 inch wafers - these will work, but your cost/chip will be much higher.
Next, purify the bauxite ore to create an ingot of pure alluminum.
Ok, now we're ready to create the general purpose microprocessor at the heart of our set top box. Using the alluminum, the wafer, a magnifying glass and a laser pointer, create a 6 issue wide superscalar 64 bit microprocessor with at least 256 KB of l2 cache. For best results, try to keep the feature size at
Be sure to have a very clean environment for this as microprocessor cores are very succeptible to dust. Your garage is not suitable unless you give it a thorough cleaning first.
Now that you have the microprocessor, the next step is to package it. It is important to use a pin grid array rather than a ball grid array as you may wish to upgrade the processor later.
*rest of guide clipped for space reasons, but you can get the latest version from the linux documentation project [linuxdoc.org].*
--Shoeboy
indrema (Score:1)
Re:Its not as hard as you might think. (Score:1)
Antec KS780 [antec-inc.com] for the case. It's a black desktop ATX case.
At this point I'm a little wary of setting this all up on Linux. It seems like it would only take a few hours to do it on Win9X since all of the software and drivers are already written. But eventually I want to write a sort of 'front-end' that has a main menu of functions like DVD, MP3, CD audio, Web browsing, TiVo, and of course, my collection of emulated games. I'd be glad to contribute to your project and to help in any way that I can so this thing can become a reality. I don't want to have to run this all on Windows.
I already did! (Score:2)
Abit BE-6
256MB PC-100
WD 40GB HDD
3Com 3C905B Fast Ethernet Adapter
ATI AIW Radeon DDR
Sound Blaster Live! MP3+
Philips MMS205 Speaker System (not the best I know)
Generic 4x DVD
Philips 4x CD-RW
Wireless Multimedia ready Keyboard (CompUSA speacial)
Logitech Optical wheel mouse
Windows 98SE (shut up)
Here's the kicker.......
3M MP7730 DLP Projector!
The AIW Radeon gives me the PVR features of the setop box. It also uses the Gemstar guide info that comes in with the cable signal to give me an onscreen guide, effortless recording and Reminders. The DVD is self explanatory, I hope. The Radeon does DVD playback wonderfully and The 3D performance is spectacular!
This little ever changing beauty is connected to a 240GB Media server running Linux 2.4 that's in the bedroom, as well as a fast internet connection. The setup is awesome. All my friends were at my digs sunday for the game and the thing had not one problem. We sometimes get together on weekends, get stoned and cruise Atomfilms and other broadband content sites (Yahoo's broadcast.com has been broken for months and that sucks).
I like it.
Re:Radeon? (Score:1)
the gf2 and the radeon both have very advanced hdtv decoding capabilities. There is still a need for a tuner which a separate company makes.
This is what i was told when I was at the pre-launch briefing for the geforce2 last spring. If you look on reference gf2's, you'll see a header that is designed to attach to a tuner breakout board.
hope this helps. i would have emailed it to you but there is no address listed.
A tale from someone who tried... (Score:4)
I've been hunting high and low for a decent, small box-sized PC-compatible computer for about a year now. Trouble is, here in Germany it is close to impossible to get one unless you are willing to pay about 3 to 4 times the price of a normal computer with similar components.
- I first tried to build the box with a normal desktop case, but not only was it ugly, it was also quite loud. My dream machine is a PC-compatible system that looks like a stereo component and that is silent.
- vanilla, plain set top box hardware is hard to get in Germany if all you want is a quantity of "one".
- those few set top boxes being sold are proprietary and come with long-term contracts, so hacking them is not an option. We did not have an "iOpener" happening here, yet.
- there are very few "small" computers on sale over here. Those you can get usually are "thin clients" like the Dell Onmiplex or the Compaq Desktop iPaq that are not equipped with a TV out.
- Looking at its specs, the Multitainer [fujitsu-siemens.com] is my dream machine, but it appears to have been a massive failure. I tested it at my local electronics store and it had a lot of stability problems. Also, it is curious that I cannot get a *new* machine anywhere in Hamburg (one of the major German cities). The few stores that want to sell the Multitainer all have "returned" devices from unsatisfied customers - still for a price tag of 1000 to 1250 dollars.
- I once had a hold on a bki810 [amptron.com] computer. It was really nice, except that a) it was not upgradable with more recent CPUs and b) its TV out was sub-par. But my main problem: It was LOUD! It had the noise level of a vacuum cleaner! I tried to replace the fans, but no chance: Local electronics stores did not offer silent fans for that size...
- I've phoned down the local listing of office suppliers for small computers, but none could help me.
- I've also checked the very popular electronics classifieds, the local German eBay-style sites etc. Noone seems to sell used hardware.
After all these attempts, my summary of the problems with "build your own set-top box" is:
* Normal PC hardware is too loud. And surprisingly, some thin clients are, too.
* Few thin clients have a TV out or can be equipped with one.
* Those few thin clients that have a TV out offer a lousy picture quality, usually off-centered or not full-screen on a PAL TV. Yes, I've tried several TV out cards and none of them could come near my very cheap DVD player's TV out. Is it really that difficult?
All in all, I just wish the Multitainer would have been better. It's everything you'd need: Standard PC hardware components and a clever combination of stereo and video connectors. But apparently, it had engineering problems.
------------------
Re:More BS MS bashing.... (Score:1)
FAT 2GB
VFAT 4GB
It starts off with the fact that I can't install win98 without having linux around. Win98 wants to be the only OS on my box.
Windows overwrites the MBR, yes, and that sucks, but if you have a linux boot disk you can easily drop lilo back on to the MBR edit a couple of files and WHAMMO! Dual-Boot! Or better yet, buy an el-cheapo machine and a KVM and use them both at the same time whithout needing to reboot.
Re:Build your own (Score:1)
Well, DUH! But I don't want all these boxes in my livingroom -- I don't have room for it all. My "entertainment center" is full with a TV, DVD player (doubling as CD player), VCR, and receiver. I'd love to play computer games on the TV, but to fit in a computer something else has to go. I see no reason why the DVD/CD player and VCR can't both be replaced by a computer. Make me a "TiVo-type consumer box" that will play and record CDs and DVDs, record and playback TV programs a-la TiVo, act as an MP3 jukebox, play computer games on the TV, do e-mail or any other software -- and I'll buy it. Nobody makes such a box, and I know of nobody who's planning one -- at any price. The Quantum QuickView certainly won't do all that -- but a homebuilt will!
BookPC...made by PCChips consortium... (Score:1)
PCChips motherboards are the bane of installfests everywhere. The PCChips Consortium is a loose affiliation of the worst manufacturers in Taiwan and in the People's Republic of China. Example member: Amptron. They are responsible for hideous abortions like the VXPro chipset, the VXTwo chipset, the TXTwo chipset, ad nauseam.
During a period when I was trying to find a SANE bitty box, I came across ASUS' version [asus.com]. It doesn't come cheap, and it's hard to find, but it's based on the solid-as-a-rock Intel BX chipset and has either a flip-chip socket or a Slot 1 CPU connector.
It would be great if someone did a bitty box based on Socket A and designed for Duron...the Duron would be an ideal chip for such a box.
Anyway...DON'T fsck around with the BookPC! You will live to regret it! Particularly if you want to use it with Linux.
----
http://www.msgeek.org/ -- Because you can't keep a geek grrl down!
Re:It should be noted... (Score:1)
Re:It is harder than you think! (Score:1)
I think ive been trolled...
Mark Duell
Re:Build your own (Score:2)
it is zapmedia.com with their Zapstation. They are dealing with harmon kardon now to get someone to manufacture some.
it is a cool system. I don't think it's a secret. Though a friend their told me also.
-Davidu
Re:Build your own (Score:2)
Re:BookPC makes good DivX, mp3,..., Mame player (Score:1)
A question about the BookPC and chip combo... how noisy is this? I'm dying to find a compact system that is inexpensive and quiet. The Athlon rig I have in my living room now is tons quiter than my desktop, but it's still too noisy.
Re:Avifile (Score:1)
Re:It's gottan be big (Score:2)
Visit the AV Sciences Forum [avsforum.com], home for those of us who measure our monitors in feet!
HDTV Tuner != cheap (Score:1)
Re:It's gottan be big (Score:1)
News from divx project (Score:1)
Re:This has other uses as well... (Score:1)
Sure he does. The magnet sticks to his refrigerator, the resistor doesn't.
Duh.
W
On the off chance that that's not a troll... (Score:2)
No, not DIVX [fightdivx.com], it's Divx
---
Re:Its not as hard as you might think. (Score:1)
Re:Divx dies for a reason... (Score:1)
Not quite. Their "open source" license is a joke. They're just looking for free programmers for their $100 million DivXNetworks [divxnetworks.com] operation. Project Mayo is as bad as Micros~1. Check out the Open MPEG [sourceforge.net] project, created by a bunch of Project Mayo/DivXNetworks refugees that felt mislead.
Re:Avifile (Score:2)
Support for the Quicktime file format IS available, and if someone were willing to tie in the quicktime/windows libraries, then we'd finally be able to watch those damned superbowl commercials online :\
Re:I recently built one (Score:1)
Re:What about Make your own ReplayTV - PTV links (Score:1)
Lazy? Make 'em links!
PureDiva: Software only bundled with complete PC's. http://www.purediva.com [purediva.com]
Ligos: Windows based PTV. http://www.ligos.com/news/pr_timeshift.html [ligos.com]
PowerVCR: Windows based VCR. http://www.cyberlink.com.tw/english/products/power vcr2/powervcr2.asp [cyberlink.com.tw]
WinVCR: Windows based VCR. http://www.cinax.com/Products/winvcr.html [cinax.com]
SnapStream: Windows based PTV (freeware and commercial version). http://www.snapstream.com [snapstream.com]
ShowShifter: Windows based PTV (freeware). http://www.showshifter.com [showshifter.com]
Re:So where *is* the hardware? (Score:3)
NLS motherboards are about 20 by 25-30 cm (8 by 10 or 11 inches). They have no slots and an edge connector on one side that plugs into the slot of an acocmpanying riser card. PCI cards plug in horizontally--parallel to the motherboard.
Many NLX cases (and industrial racks) allow the motherboard to be removed by loosening 2 thumbscrews. To add DIMMs, you can pull out the motherboard out COMPLETELY without removing ANY cards or cables--sometimes without even opening the case! Yeong-Yang makes a pretty little VCR-sized NLX case [yeongyang.com]. NLX desktop cases are compact, quiet and easy to maintain (No, I don't sell them. I just think they are neat.)
As for the NLX motherboards, they usually come with matching riser cards. Asus, Gigabyte or Intel should have them, although they are not as common as ATX and may cost a bit more. The rest is just normal commodity hardware (TV tuner/capture, DVD player, huge hard drive etc.).
I have been thinking of building such a system for a year or two now. Maybe someone else will try now...
Done with X (Score:3)
It'll be pure menus, pointing and clicking for everything using a remote control. If you want a box with keyboard and monitor you'll have to go to Cray or something and pay through the nose.
It looks like when he says "TV out card" he's referrering to the RCA output on most VGA cards. There are lots of "TV out cards" but they use JPEG compression.
The problem with watching movies this way is you have to go from 24fps progressive to genlocked 29.97fps interlaced. Simply using a Microsoft media player on a TV would cause studdering because it wouldn't match the 29.97 interlacing exactly.
This has other uses as well... (Score:1)
Re:First Toast (Score:1)
You might wind up finding that you aren't really all that attracted to her while she finds that she's fallen in love with you.
You might both wind up as good friends but not romantically interested in each other. There are plethora of possibilities.
Go ahead and get to know her (without rushing it and appearing too eager, be sincere but play it a little cool), expand your world a little, she might introduce you to someone or something (poetry, rock climbing, jazz, knitting, who knows what) that you wouldn't have experienced otherwise.
Unrequited love isn't fatal. It just feels that way for a while. Learning that the hard way is part of growing up. Might as well jump in the deep end and get it over with.
Re:Building custom set-top boxes might be importan (Score:2)
I think it is important that set top boxes made with contemporary off-the-shelf technology become popular. That way, artificially restricted technology will not become the de-facto standard. For example, MP3 has no inherent content-control capability and produces acceptable sound quality. It has become extremely popular and attempts by SDMI to squish it out of existence will be met with consumer resistance. With DATs, mini-discs and DVDs parasitic recording and movie distribution companies got their grubby hands on the technology before "unprotected" formats gained popularity. These technologies are now marginalised or convoluted with content-control schemes like CSS. Content-control is not a feature--it is a pain in the ass and will always be met with resistence if it is introduced into an already large market.
What I take issue with is the fact you tainted your argument for no reason with your personal prejuduces. No all people in the southern states are evangelical bigots who wish to restrict free speech. Nor do all Christians (evangelical or otherwise) harbour intolerant attitudes towards those with differing opinions or even aree with the opinions of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. Conservatives and Christians to not have a monopoly on intolerant views and actions, and it is just as bad to supress or denigrate Christans as it is to do the same to Jews, Islamics, feminists or whoever else.
For the record, I live in Canada, not the southern states. I am not an evangelical Christian. I my political views are best described as libertarian--not socailly conservative. Thus, I am not personally offended by your comments. I just hate it when political retoric taints a rational argument. It happens a lot on
What about Make your own ReplayTV (Score:1)
What I really want is a ReplayTV thingie. I want one bad, but not only do I not wanna pay for it, I don't wanna have to spend $500.
Someone point me to a ReplayTV project.
Re:So where *is* the hardware? (Score:1)
There already is a pretty neat project. (Score:1)
It's time for the Linux Media Server (Score:1)
It's an open source project so it can be whatever we want it to be.
Games, PVR, Firewall, IP Masquearading, Squid Proxy, Email etc etc... All of these things already exist. Let's just do it.
Send in your suggestions and let's make it happen!
Who's gonna do HDTV? (Score:1)
The only real benefit I see to a homebrew, ghetto HDTV tuner is the lack of manufacturer-applied copy-protection systems. And even those can be circumvented.
But as for the Media-BOX in its present incarnation, I say, whoo hoo! What better way to store and watch movies on your set-top? Oh, wait - DVD. Shoot.
and, from the site - "(Sorry, Media-BOX is not a 'ripper')" - looks like they're not about to incorporate a DVD-decoder anytime soon. It's too bad - this player's possibly most important feature could be ripping movies from your PC and storing them on your set-top. For your own personal use only, provided that you own the movie, of course, etc.
Despite that, loading movies from your PC to your TV is still a real plus, allowing you to watch those downloaded pr0n movies on your home-entertainment system. Home entertainment, indeed.
Re:we need to take up a collection (Score:1)
Can't read the divx site? (Score:1)
Tu ne le comprends pas? Ah, c'est dommage! ;)
--
Its not as hard as you might think. (Score:4)
Right now, we have a marginally stable...
And we hope to get... Try these links for...
Linux support for the Creative Dxr DVD Decoder and drive. http://opensource.creative.com [creative.com]
Linux and infrared remote control http://www.lirc.org/ [lirc.org]
Linux and the ATI all in Wonder cards http://www.linuxvideo.org/gatos/ [linuxvideo.org]
Re:Why limit to the Set-Top? (Score:1)
Set Top box.... (Score:1)
Vanu Inc (Score:1)
www.vanu.com
m
ps. I do not work for Vanu and have nothing to gain or loose from their raise or demaise.
Radeon? (Score:1)
The way I read it, it was an HDTV tuner. I remember reading a lot of people saying they were buying the card just for it's HDTV stuff.
DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about HDTV, how it works, or even how good it looks. I just know it's expensive and I read that stuff about the Radeon. Can someone shed some light?
Anyone know of portable MP3 (HDD based) projects? (Score:2)
Currently minidisc is the ultimate personal sound system for me, and whem MP3 players ditch flash RAM and move to 6gig HDDs (and become more power efficient, probably via more RAM), then they'll be kind of the hill, except I doubt commercial ones will be uncrippled, so I'd like to look into building my own dream machine.
Any pointers to projects along these lines? (Even non-miniature MP3 boxes would be great - they would help me in the areas I'm weak in, while I could work on the miniaturisation).
Re:A tale from someone who tried... (Score:2)
I'm not sure where to get them - I know about them because my brother worked on a motorised flight simulator, and they used a biscut PC for each of the flight status readout screens, networked to the main PC which handled the 3d virtual reality display. They're perfect - small, quiet, prefabricated, and run normal PC software.
Sorry I can't help you find them, but just knowing they exist should help. Hopefully someone else here can give a pointer.
I can't spell (Score:2)
Generic set-top boxes (Score:2)
While tiny industrial PC-compatible machines do exist, they cost far too much for this job. These boxes need to come in around $200 at retail.
Re:Playstation 2 (Score:1)
===
Open Source Tivo? (Score:1)
We'd need a thousand squirrels typing in television schedules.
DiVx/VCD/DVD/MP3/CD/TIVO/WEB CASE! (Score:1)
Re:Divx dies for a reason... (Score:1)
Mike
Re:Playstation 2 (Score:2)
Avifile (Score:2)
Avifile Homepage [divx.euro.ru]
Here is an excerpt from their 'Supported compression formats':
Video ;-) ) ;-) Audio )
Win32 VfW DLLs:
Indeo Video 3.2, 4.1
Microsoft MPEG-4 v1 & v2 beta
Microsoft MPEG-4 v3 ( also known as DivX
Cinepak Video
ATI VCR-2
I263
Win32 DirectShow filters, decompression-only
support:
Microsoft MPEG-4 v3 ( this decoder is slower than VfW one, but offers wider range of picture control features )
Windows Media Video 7
Indeo Video 5.0
Motion JPEG ( using Morgan Multimedia shareware codec )
Open-source plugins:
Motion JPEG ( using libjpeg, very slow )
Audio
Win32 ACM DLLs, decompression-only support:
Windows Media Audio ( also known as DivX
MS ADPCM
Intel Music Codec
Open-source plugins, decompression-only support:
PCM
AC3
IMA ADPCM
MPEG Layer-1,2,3 ( compression into MP3 is also supported )
MSN Audio
GSM 6.1 Audio
Win32 DirectShow filters, untested decompression-only support:
Voxware Metasound
ACELP.net
It also has support for V4L compression :)
Re:What would happen? (Score:2)
>However, the Supreme Court has a very good track record of maintaining the sanctity of the First Amendment.
In case you hadn't noticed, the rules have changed. As seen in Kaplin's decision (that might be overturned, but don't bet on it), the New Strategy is along the lines of "It doesn't matter what rights the constitution grants you, it doesn't grant you the right to have access to the equipement needed to use those rights in mainstream media formats".
The constitution will protect your right to yabber on HAM radio, and it will protect your right to free speech via DVD, but unlike HAM radio, you will simply not be able to purchase any DVD equipment sporting the features that allow free speech. And the law can't touch that.
This is why making un-crippled technology (like these set top boxes) is so important - it will likely be the only way to have a soap box in the dominant media format.
You might have noticed that the DVD writer that comes with the new apples can write a single DVD, but that DVD is block so that it can't be used to master your creation - in fact you can't actually master your work at all using the DVD writer.
This is a taste of the future.
We are approaching a time when the technology of cheap, affordable production and distribution could have resulted in amature content creation (like star wars fan films, eg Troops) becoming a significant part of our media diet.
In other words, we would have less need to buy content from the industry. The industry doesn't like that idea, and this is yet another reason why these devices are now designed to preclude us making or distributing content. Piracy, while a legimiate concern, is also being used as a whitewash to lever into position the necessary infrastructure to keep consumers and artists dependant on the existing distribution structure, and thus cash cows (the artists too - both sides get screwed, the non-productive parasites in the middle with the keys to the Wall make the money).
The whole thing is frightening in its genius. I think it's going to work. I think we're going to lose. I plan to build my own hardware, but that simply isn't a consumer option - it effectively means I'm just opting out of the fight. I'm not sure if there is a better way yet.
Duh! (Re:A tale from someone who tried...) (Score:2)
Sorry, I was thinking of making an MP3-only box when I wrote that message, and obviously a 486 ain't enough for video. I think the bisuit PCs come in much more powerful ranges, but I don't know what.
I made one 2 years ago (Score:1)
333 K6-2 evergreen upgrade processer,
8MB ATI All-in-Wonder Pro,
Creative DXR3 DVD Decoder,
USR 33.6 modem w/ voice,
Creative 64 Gold value,
2 hard drives,
1 CDRW,
1 DVD,
I have been using the comp. for 5+ months and must say it works great. Only problem is due to the fact that most of my episode files(I did see the show when it was brodcasted, and did tape on VHS when it did) are a mixture of Divx, MPG, Quicktime, and ASF. To play two out of the three I need to have Windows installed.
I love my DVD drive and Decoder and recomend it to everyone I know. The only problem is due to fact that only one person is currently developing for the EM8300 chip [freshmeat.net] on the card in Linux/FreeBSD, the drivers are only in 0.82 release. If you want to run DVD decoding in Linux, Buy a god damn . Creative has [freshmeat.net] opened up the source [creative.com] on the drivers somewhat and do support an Open Source project for those drivers. One question that I am sure that has poped up on few geeks minds that own a DXR3 is "Why isn't Creative suporting DXR3 when it's supporting DXR2?" The reason is due to the fact that Creative didn't make the chips for DXR3, Sigma did. They say that they support Linux selectively, but having spoken with the developers themselves, I know that they didn't have any plans as of 10-00. Also, I do know that the DXR2 did have many problems, and I had one upuntil it died on me.
The Video card works great at 800X600 due to the work of the Gatos Project [linuxvideo.org]. If you do have a DXR2 and ATI, you can use the Pro to use the DXR2 to display on Monitor. I don't know if the video does work.
Soundcard and others: if it's linux compatable, buy it and use it. If a soundcard is linux compatable and has 5.1 sound, why haven't you bought it yet?!!!
Pros for my system:
1) I don't need cable, just need to go to mom and dad's place to record episodes.
2) Set your own TV network up and delete the comercials except for at the superbowl. Then you watch the commercials and skip the game. Especially this year. (where's my buck Lucas?)
3) Playlist is a very good feature.
4) who need a 19" monitor when I have a 32" TV?
5) It gives me something to tweak everyday.
6) If you have a "copy" of a movie on your comp, why do you have to go to the theater to find out that it sucked?
7) It's what made me adiment about re-learning C++ and memory calls
8) Preview homepages to see how much it would suck if I had a WebTV
Cons:
1) Windows based. I want someone to come out with an ASF 2 MPG converter that actually works, and does not do it real time. (I would do it, and have tried to learn, but I'm about 3years to late to do machine code anymore) 2) Only 800X600 may sound great on a tv, but I'm going to have to upgrade when I get an HDTV.(Oh please, please, please santa. Bring me one small one, like say 27") 3) I can't think of another one other than the mess of cables.(hahahahhahahaahahahaha!!!!!!!!!)
if anyone really wants to talk to me, (bubbles@nospam.rea-alp.com) mail me, and we'll talk. If anyone has a similer situation or a problem, ask, and if I don't know it, then I'll ask around. And if I have a problem, we can talk and I can figure out wtf Microsoft is thinking to not open up asf.
Also, Taco, Divx is just as good as ASF, and there v2.0 site is even cooler.
Sincerly,
Mark W. Wallace
PS: I also have owned all of these thing for 2+years, so don't tell me that it's not fast enough!!!!!!!
Re:Building custom set-top boxes might be importan (Score:2)
I'm not making any of these claims. You are.
Trust me, I just re-read what I wrote. It was an example. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I had suggested that there was some central server at UC Berkeley intended to censor all anti-liberal programming, would you have called me a liberophobe?
Lighten up.
A remote for you (Score:1)
http://www.keyspan.com/products/usb/remote/ [keyspan.com] This is a good solution.. USB, works with PC and Mac, prolly Linux too if you wanted to hack together drivers. The beauty of this remote is that it works via sending keyboard commands to the application with focus, even in full screen. Thus, it can be completely reprogrammed, and made to work with any application. I suppose you could even run a macro program, and map keystrokes to mouse-movement macros if you were so inclined. I have one of these, and it works well.. the range is awesome, too.
Re:I recently built one (Score:2)
Any particular reason you do that? The folks who hang out at the AV Sciences Forum web site [avsforum.com] can easily afford stand-alone DVD players, and choose to build home theater PCs. I consult with a high-end audio-video dealership, I go to all the trade shows like CES and CEDIA and I can assure you - a good software DVD player in a well-assembled PC delivers a better picture than any stand-alone player currently on the market (there are some pieces in prototype form that may change that when they are released).
Use software player, like WinDVD 2000 or PowerDVD, through a GeForce2 MX video card & PowerStrip scaling the picture up to the "sweet spot" of a front projector. Run it at 72 or 96 or even 120 hz to multiply the 24 fps of a film-based DVD to avoid 3:2 pull-down artifacts.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I wouldn't use a stand-alone DVD player if you paid me.
Re:A tale from someone who tried... (Score:1)
Re:What's the BBS tax on these? (Score:1)
Completely different (Score:1)
This is sorta like a .zip file and a zip drive. I know the difference, but my mom is still confused :>
DIVX was an attempt to make copy-protected DVDs. Divx is an MPEG4 related codec for making .mpg files.
I can only assume that the team who developed the Divx codec hadn't heard of DIVX when the developed it. Either that or they are evil bastards.
Re:It's gottan be big (Score:3)
Aaaargh! The image of Arnold Schwarzenegger holding up your DVD shelf is permanently etched into my mind! I think I need professional help!
Re:One question (Score:1)
bu-dum-dump!
Re:What about Make your own ReplayTV - PTV links (Score:4)
From the Tivo Hacking FAQ [tivofaq.com]:
PureDiva: Software only bundled with complete PC's. http://www.purediva.com
Ligos: Windows based PTV. http://www.ligos.com/news/pr_timeshift.html
PowerVCR: Windows based VCR. http://www.cyberlink.com.tw/english/products/power vcr2/powervcr2.asp
WinVCR: Windows based VCR. http://www.cinax.com/Products/winvcr.html
SnapStream: Windows based PTV (freeware and commercial version). http://www.snapstream.com
ShowShifter: Windows based PTV (freeware). http://www.showshifter.com
Also, the Matrox G450 eTV has some PTV software that comes with it for Tivo like functionality. Not sure how it gets its program guide though.
Why? (Score:1)
If I can easily buy new components and make a better one far cheaper myself, including time and energy spent building it, set top boxes are going to have trouble.
With all the hype, I have still yet to see a place where I can buy a Linux set top box. Coollogic had a press release last year regarding the immediate release of their box, I think Slashdot even picked up on it.
Well where is it? Coollogic's web site seems to have not been updated since October of last year. Where is their set top box?
My current project (Score:1)
1) Buying up as many ATI All-In-Wonder Pros PCI's that I can.
2) Drop as 'em into a box and try and get XFree86 4 to span over all the outputs.
3) Modify xawtv (if needed) so that so you can see the inputs from a diffrent card in each session of xawtv.
4) Get TV-out working. Plug each card into a TV (I have a bunch I've been collecting for this).
Presto! Videowall!
Next we need a mpeg2 encoder board to record stuff. And more PCI slots :)
I'd want to watch CNN, MTV, ZDNET, SCI-FI, and the Comedy channel all the time. :)
Idealy I'd write my own software for viewing using gstreamer [gstreamer.net], but we'll see...
--
It needs to get cheaper (Score:1)
__________________
Oh damn... (Score:3)
Building custom set-top boxes might be important (Score:3)
You might wind up with a central server somewhere in the Deep South, operated by Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson or another such people. When people want to use their Tivo to record certain television programs, that server is sent the name of the program, and can send back a rejection message if the program contains things such as nudity, feminism, or Islam. You might think this is a ridiculous example, but look at the way things are going. We've got some crippling potential restrictions on how HDTV signals can be used. We've got the MPAA saying that we don't have the right to use the data our own DVDs in our own home unless we use it the way they want us to. Don't expect things to get any better.
Our last refuge might lie in our ability to develop our own solutions. We can build the codecs. We can can throw in big honkin' hard drives. We own soldering irons. There is nothing (conceptually) that is stopping us from developing our own devices. And if the government and the corporate community insist on continually levying these ridiculous restrictions on us, it might be the only option we have left. In fact, you might see a large "black market" for unregulated set-top devices spring up. The threat of this possibility should give the corporate control-freaks some pause, because if geeks have demonstrated anything over the past few years, it is that they will not be regulated. And that is a Good Thing (TM).
What is the purpose... (Score:1)
Umm, so you can go home, plug it in and use it?
Duh.
Re:Divx dies for a reason... (Score:1)
Why limit to the Set-Top? (Score:3)
What I've got buzzing around, in the back of my head, is something like this:
(That shouldn't be too expensive, right?)
Then, this box would be connected to various rooms via Coax (for video) and line-level shielded audio (for audio). Or send the audio through a multi-zone amplifier to wall-mounted speakers. Or something like that. You'd control it via infrared control, repeated from the viewing room back to the box through wireless or wired IR repeaters.
What would I do with this box? Everything.
Could be way cool. Way, way cool. Of course, a lot of things that I'm thinking about here have significant infrastructure problems -- like, say, how do you distribute HD (TV, not disk) signals through a house?
In the end, I think the plan I'm settling on involves a big UberTiVo box with multiple inputs, but feeding some massively cool RAID server (that way, I can just use a bunch of really cheap separate computers with one tuner each, if it becomes too difficult to handle more than one input per box). Then use very simple set-top boxes (the little "bookshelf" form factor) with Composite out (or just run VGA straight to an HDTV monitor), sound (to cheap speakers or an in-room stereo), and wireless keyboard and/or game controllers. If I'm really lucky, I can get this sucker to run w/out a fan, too.
Then, everything just talks back to the main server over 100-meg ethernet. ( that part's easy!)
Anyone else tackling something like this? From this approach? Or from an approach I should be aware of? I'd love to share ideas....
david.
Re:Playstation 2 (Score:3)
The Sony docs from phase 1 were complete - including the systems information you'd need for Linux e.g. cache control details, system-level instructions, page-mapping registers, etc. etc. But these docs were only ever printed in dead-tree format, so it's incredibly difficult for them to accidentally escape.
The Phase 2 docs are PDFs (I have a set at home which might escape if someone asks me nicely) but they miss out this important information.
Finally, you'd need some form of Trojan to boot the machine, at least until it's chipped - and if you take a PS2 apart, the first thing you notice is that chipping this mofo is not going to be easy! It's some of the densest electronics I've ever seen. The best bet right now seems to be "accidentally" putting a Trojan download program onto a game disk, probably hidden as a buffer-overflow bug which you trigger deliberately, possibly by sending a packet on the serial port input; possibly by inserting an unauthorized CD.
All this is assuming Sony will not be supportive ... and I think that's a fair bet.
Build your own (Score:3)
One of the large hardware manufacturers is working on exactly this. Linux-based it's a framework for other companies to license and customize. Their goal is to supply a reference implementation of the base system which of course takes advantage of their hardware.
Presumably consumer-products companies coming late in the game to "digital-VCR's" will be happy to license this, do some customizing (either in-house or contracted with the developer) and then ship their own branded solutions.
What's interesting about this for the /. community is just how much of this turns out to be really specialized. From kernel modifications to optimized codecs to specially designed file-systems much of this can't be off-the-shelf for price/performance reasons. Apparently they're not terribly concerned about the home-brew market feeling that it'll just be cheaper to buy a dedicated box then retrofitting other hardware, attempting to get appropriate listings, maintaining the hw/sw, etc.
Of course I'm sure they're willing to sell their own industry-generic raw hardware to anyone, it's just the package that they're holding out for big fees.
Frankly even though this topic comes up again & again I think they're probably right. Sure my PC CD-player plays music fine but I prefer to have one in my livingroom dedicated to the audio system. Same with the DVD player, while it plays fine on the box & 21" monitor I've got one in the lvingroom 'cause it's better suited / more convenient there.
I expect for many of us a TiVo-type consumer box will be far more popular then a homebuilt. It's not like building your own computer 'cause the economics aren't likely to be as sweet and it'll be difficult to get source-material (the listings.)
Different but related topic:
What I *do* think would be hot would be custom-program-selection services where one could subscribe and get a selection of program-record-instructions emailed to my TV-box. Rather then it randomly recording stuff it thinks I *might* like or my explicitly setting the recording choices a third option of subscribing to a service (sushi-cooking@asianfood.com or st-nextgen-sans-wesley@stgeek.com) would be interesting.
Of course for this to work we'd need some sort of TV-listings-XML...
mpeg2movie (Score:2)
The guy claims quality/bandwith similar to DivX, but the codec is GPL, and is SMP-ready.
I don't have any personal experience with it, but if I were designing a Tivo-like system that's what I'd look at first -- especially if I was trying to do real-time high-compression video stuff and was willing to get some hefty CPU power it will pay off...
Re:One word... Indrema (Score:1)
More BS MS bashing.... (Score:1)
VFAT 4GB File and Volume limit
FAT32 32GB File and Volume Limit
NTFS 16 Exabyte theoretical File and Volume Limit - 2 TB Limit recommeded.
I have 7.4GB uncompressed AVI file sitting on my drive right now waiting to edited, convertrd to DivX and stored on my media server. All of this stuff is possible (and stable) on windows 98. I am doing it right now [slashdot.org]. If something does go wrong and the system becomes unstable (not that it should with the proper maintanence) Make sure you have a copy of Norton Ghost 2000. It will make a reinstall a 10 minute breeze instead of a 2 (or more) hour hassle. This applies to linux as well.
What I want to know is...... If you have such a hard time running an easy-as-pie OS like windows.... what the fuck does your Linux install look like? Hehehe.
There is a saying, Use the right tool for the job. Linux at this point is not the right tool for this job. Perhaps (read someday) it will be and I will probably use it then. But for now, I am using something that works.
Re:Oh damn... (Score:2)
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There's a lot going on.... (more links) (Score:1)
http://www.linuxtv.org (Digital TV hardware based goodies and more)
http://mjpeg.sourceforge.org (MJPEG capture, playback, MPEG-1/2 encoding )
Andrew
Ever heard of Indrema? (Score:1)
Re:What about Make your own ReplayTV (Score:4)
there isn't one going per se (at least I haven't seen one yet), but all of the tools are there...on the hardware side, you'll need a tv tuner, and Big-Assed Harddrive (TM).
On the software side, grab vcr [stack.nl]. VCR is a command line tool to record divx files..it eats processors though, so make sure you got a good one..if you would like something that is a little leaner on the processor, grab mp1e (sorry no web page), the files you write will be bigger, but the quality is good, and only take about 15% of my celery 400.
To see what is on TV, either grab xmltv [ic.ac.uk], tvguide [cherrynebula.net], or the cream of the crop Mister House [sourceforge.net]
Mister House looks pretty sweet, since it already embeds links to record shows right in the listings for recording(you'll have to hack it a bit to get it to use vcr/mp1e, but it'll work), and there is already code there for remembering your favourite shows, sorting for movies, etc, etc etc...
Now if you want to get fancy, you'll grab a DVD anywhere from x10 (to lazy to throw in the link), a second sound card in your Linux box, and a second video card in your Linux box, and it will all get run from your machine sitting in your room so that you don't have a noisy machine sitting your Living Room.
And of course this also gets you access to your MP3s, and web browser while sitting on the couch...
So why haven't you built this yet Jose, you ask? I'm working on it OK, GET OFF MY BACK!! =P
Re:Its not as hard as you might think. (Score:2)
though i do understand the k3wlness facter of doing it all in linux, with pre alpha software.
-Jon
Streamripper [sourceforge.net]
Re:Its not as hard as you might think. (Score:2)
Re:Open Source Tivo? (Score:2)
I recently built one (Score:2)
Celeron 533Mhz (basically the best I could fit on my existing PII mobo)
128MB RAM
40GB ATA/100 (running at 33 :( ) HDD, 7200RPM
ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder
Logitech AST Remote [compuvisor.com] - to control mouse/applications
Software to control mouse is Girder [stack.nl]. (It's awesome)
Black desktop ATX case
Black wireless keyboard/trackball (Compaq)
Running Win98 (Radeon can't output digital audio thru SPDIF in 2000 yet)
Creative Labs MP3+ 5.1
Cheapo black DVD-ROM drive
100Mbps ethernet
It generally performs very well. I use it for DVD (only in a secondary capacity, my regular DVD player is superior and I laugh at anyone who claims their PC's DVD player does a better job than a decent component DVD player), MP3 (primarily the reason I built it), watching MPG1/2/DivX movies and VCDs. It can also act as a WebTV in a pinch, though it's running at 800x600 and the text can get hard to read, even when set at largest font.
I do have some issues with the Radeon card (besides the exorbitant price) - it does straight-to-MPEG2 capture, which is nice, but it doesn't enforce a/v synching, which isn't usually an issue until I decide to compress to DivX. Then you usually need to fire up something like AVI Info [demon.co.uk] to correct the problem. I bought the Radeon because it comes with some TV-Guide type software to control listings and recording, but in my experience, it's not really worth it. From what I hear, the ATI AIW 32 is a better card for straight PVR uses.
Just my $0.02.
MPEG2 encoder (Score:2)
Re:A tale from someone who tried... (Score:2)
As I wrote earlier, it was far too loud. Also, its TV out wasn't quite good (not centered on the screen, not full screen) and its digital audio output was not accessible on the case, you'd have to drill a hole and get your own cable to use it.
But of course, I don't know if a) my particular system was just an exception and if b) the new version of the product has been improved.
------------------
Re:Build your own (Score:2)
Quantum QuickView [quantum.com]. License it, pop it in your labeled box and you've got yourself a product. Guts supplied by the same folks that supply TiVo & Replay.
Why Quantum? The more drives they sell the better for them. It's in their interest to see this market take off and if providing a reference deseign is what it takes that's nothing new in the industry. Besides, they want to be the folks in this potentially enormous market.
One word... Indrema (Score:2)
It already has the web-browsing, MP3 playing, network connection, and sleek case. It just needs someone to port Mame, snes9x, DivX, etc and we're rolling. (HINT HINT HINT) And it's running Linux!! Can you ask for more? Hack a way to patch all your old controllers to work over USB and you can stick all those old consoles in the closet!!
Now all we need is for it to materialize from it's current VaporWare(TM) state....
sorta (Score:2)
but it works, i guess.
-Jon
Streamripper [sourceforge.net]
i've got a beige G3 (Score:2)
it fits under my TV, in the cabinet with the DVD player, etc, and has built-in 10/100 ethernet, component & S-video, 6G hard drive, and a CD ROM
this last is only important in that i can use either it or the ethernet to get software onto the bugger (i remotely control it via timbuktu from the office rather than hook up a keyboard and mouse) but mostly because i have Virtual GameStation and can play playstation games with the G3, as well as quake and UT. at some point, i'll add a fat video card and USB to it, and it'll do everything my blue G3 in the office can do, as well as pumping video to the big screen.
that's the plan, anyway..
It should be noted... (Score:4)
Requirements for the Linux Version
Intel CPU of 600Mhz or greater (current libs have more overhead)
2.2.16 kernel of higher, JAVA 1.3 w/JMF
20Gb+ storage space (1Gb per imported DVD) recommended @ UDMA66
Wireless mouse (not required but suggested)
Settopbox form factor PC chassis (not required but recommended)
TV-out card (strongly recommended)
Internet Connection
Re:Its not as hard as you might think. (Score:2)
BookPC makes good DivX, mp3,..., Mame player (Score:2)
Then go get an AMD K63 or K63+ 450 for $50.
K63 is a laptop processor, but works if you set the voltage at 2.1(MB doesn't to 2.0).
I clock it at 500 Mhz.
You probably need an IR keyboard or other IR controller. Keyboard is $100. Or you could have got the DVD/black version of the BookPC which came with the IR control.
Now the software. Currently I just run 'aviplay' to play divx's and some mp3 player.
But this is all manual. What is needed is a automatic way to detect and play any media when it is loaded either by disc type (CD,DVD,VCD) or by extention (Discs full of mp3,avi,mpg,mp3,mp2,mpa,ac3,vob,mov,...,xmameroms
So the architecture would be:
enum disc_type {CD, VCD1,VCD2, VCD3, SVCD, DVD, UNKNOWN};
when(disc inserted)
{
disk_type = determine_disc_type();
load_navigation(disc_type);
}
blah, blah, blah
Umlaut HTML (Score:2)
ü or Ü
that's:
ü or ÜRe:Why limit to the Set-Top? (Score:2)
You've got a couple of choices in doing this. The hardware way and the software way. Hardware involves video/audio switchers which are expensive and not really designed to be controlled by touchpads in rooms, tho they could be I suppose. The software is less expensive, but still complicated, since you'd have to be streaming video to each unit. If you're going to a computer, it's easy. If you're going to a TV, it gets harder and more expensive.
The only option I can come up with is a private closed-circuit TV system (similar to the ones hotels have). AFAIK, this requires a special TV if you want to combine internal sources (your personal pr0n collection) and external sources (your Time/Warner cable service).
I suppose you could do it with regular TVs, but now you're talking about a computer at every TV, and that gets expensive and difficult to deal with.
What we need is a Free Software solution for integrating a TV and a computer so that TV manufacturers can add the hardware and use the software for no cost.
Just do it on the X-Box (Score:3)
Re:More BS MS bashing.... (Score:2)
2GB is an unsigned 32b integer. A 32GB file would require a 36b integer.
Not to mention that I've had Win98 running on FAT32 refuse to make a large file (I was piping data in, it hung when the file hit 2GB).
NTFS supports larger files, but only 2TB from what I've heard. No idea what the max partition size is.
One question (Score:5)
You want corn? I give you corn.