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SyncML 1.0 released; MAL Is Dead. 46

Posted by Hemos from the sync-dong-the-witch-is-dead dept.
A reader Coward writes: "Finally, there's a standard for sync. SyncML 1.0 was just released. Which also means MAL is pretty much history." Yeah, getting Motorola, Nokia, Ericcson, Palm and about 600 other companies is probably a good move. If it means I can beam sync calender/number information from my Palm to my phone, I'll be a happy man.
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SyncML 1.0 released; MAL is dead. More

SyncML 1.0 released; MAL is dead.

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  • I recently dropped my Palm IIIx for a Psion Revo. It syncs everything, from phonenumbers to SMS messages.
    It rules! Now if it would only have some decent syncing software to go with my decent operating system, i'd be a happy man again.

    -8<--

  • What do you mean by "Nokia"? What model?
  • Worked fine for me. See 6210 [nokia.com].

    ______________
  • I still use them, they sync pretty good with the trash can...
  • Umm.. yeah, I have a Palm and an 8210 as well.. and yes, it is possible to beam _one_ phone number per contact to the phone.. in other words, if my friend in the palm address book has a home number, work number, fax and mobile I will get _one_ of these if I beam him to the phone. Rather crappy if you ask me.
  • PilotLink doesn't contain support for MAL, but it's not the right app to support it.

    When i saw this article, my first reaction was "Great, now it'll be *another lengthy wait for linux to catch up"

    Aparantly most people don't know, Linux does support MAL. You can even hotsync avantgo with linux.

    You'll need PilotLink (of course), jpilot (curiously enough, the j doesn't mean it's written in java - it's written with gtk+), MALSync (http://www.tomw.org/malsync/) and the jpilot-syncmal plugin from http://home.sprynet.com/~cbagwell/jpilot.html. Get the source for everything but pilot-link, because you will be compiling stuff differently from the standard installation.

    Works pretty well here, except i still have to sync with windows to drop channels from avantgo, and you will still need to sync with windows to install and configure avantgo. But follow the instructions in the jpilot-syncmal documentation or it'll be a lot harder than it should be.

  • My understanding is that all Nokia phones in the US have the IR port disabled. bummer for us. :(
  • Another option is to use a Netscape autoproxy config, where you can tell it to proxy all *.doubleclick.net to 127.0.0.1.
  • They don't need to build a full-blown SAX parser into the phone, they only need to be able to parse SyncML. This parser could easily be put into programmable logic so it could be upgraded later.
  • But I don't *want* five different SyncML clients on my memory-challenged Palm top. AvantGo backed out of "OpenSource" MAL and left us with the two slightly different MobileLink versions that AvantGo and Vindigo use -- that's bad enough. SyncML should not suffer this fate.

    When will companies learn that it's the *server* that's valuable, not the piddly little SyncML client?

    (FWIW: I'm perfectly capable of writing a Palm client for myself. My point is that *no one wants* five different slightly incompatible clients. We want one, officially supported, universally compatible client. And the SyncML folk aren't giving us that.)

  • Re:Huh? (Score:1)

    by rod ( 9617 )
    Cmon guys, any Wap browser - ie, cell phones - have some sort of XML parser inside. It can be wmlc (Compiled (compressed) WML), text WML, gateway-converted WML, etc.

    It's not slow nor impossible
  • can someone point me to some open-source implementations of the syncml toolkit written in java? it looks like most to implementations are c/c++ and sun doesn't have any links to syncml in their search engine. thanks!

  • Re:it's about time! (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 13, 2001 @12:41AM (#510213)
    At first glance, this looks great. However, having downloaded the specification, I am somewhat troubled by this bit of legalese:

    <snip>
    Copyright Notice
    Copyright (c) Ericsson, IBM, Lotus, Matsushita Communication Industrial Co., LTD,
    Motorola, Nokia, Palm, Inc., Psion, Starfish Software (2000).
    All Rights Reserved.
    Implementation of all or part of any Specification may require licenses under third party
    intellectual property rights, including without limitation, patent rights (such a third party may
    or may not be a Supporter). The Sponsors of the Specification are not responsible and shall
    not be held responsible in any manner for identifying or failing to identify any or all such
    third party intellectual property rights.
    </snip>

    What's this? The sponsors of the specification "may" have various patents and copyrights making it impossible (or illegal, which isn't the same of course) to implement the specification without paying them money? And they don't even have to tell us about them (until it's too late)?! And I hoped this was going to be an open standard...

    Will this present a major hurdle for Linux developers trying to implement the standard so we can use our PDAs and such with a Linux box? I think it looks pretty likely.
  • on the downloads page you can find "SyncML Reference Toolkit / SyncML Gold Candidate for Palm, Linux & Windows"
  • Yes, slashdot requires a cookie. If you don't want doubleclick.net, I suggest you put the following into your /etc/hosts:

    127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.ca.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.de.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.fr.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.jp.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.nl.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.no.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ad.uk.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 ln.doubleclick.net
    127.0.0.1 m.doubleclick.net

    Another option would be to use conqueror who has an excellent cookie manager.

  • stuff i noticed (Score:3)

    by Fat Cow ( 13247 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @02:40AM (#510216)

    there doesn't seem to be mention of an rsync [samba.org] type approach, which is odd considering the bandwidth problems they're trying to address.

    each device is required to maintain a change log for each server that it syncs with. could get expensive in terms of memory if you don't sync for a while, especially on small devices. however, does anybody have an alternative other than a complete resync every time?

    one of the things it's based on is that each item to be synced will have a unique ID, which is something that can't be relied upon to exist at the moment. hopefully, this will encourage PIM writers etc to implement these as it makes things much simpler. the only alternative i can see is to compare items every time to try and find similarities which is fraught with difficulties ;)

    the best sync stuff i've used has been truesync by starfish, so it's encouraging to see them involved.

  • Sync, but where is MS (Score:4)

    by cluge ( 114877 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @03:59AM (#510217) Homepage
    With MS being so prevasive in the desktop I would assume that MS would want to be a part of this. After all I'd love to sync my Ipaq address book with outlook AND my Cell Phone. The thing is MS already can sych with Palm Devices that it deems "good" (i.e. WinCE) And it leaves other "syching" up to third parties.

    I noticed Avant Go was mentioned in the article. The Avant Go system is a perfect example of a 3rd party coming and and developing a something for a MS product because it was lacking that ability (Avant go allows you to sync across the network and through the web!)

    Since MS, who has openly announced they are "going after" the embedded market is conspicuously absent I predict the following.

    • The sych will start to catch on and more and more people will develop nice applications for it
    • MS will decalare that the standard synch model is too limiting for it's products and introduce it's own standard
    • The new standard is based on "MS XML" and the sych software runs ONLY on win2k software
    • The new software is 100% compatible with MS office (i.e. outlook) any third party patches to use the standard sych will stop working after you install the latest service pack

    MS absence smells bad in this context. I only hope that enough people have adopted the protocol and it's use is so ingrained that MS will have to come along. A good example of where MS had to tow the standards line is the netowrk protocol TCP/IP, if MS had had it's way, we would ALL use NETBEUI :)

    On that same note I still find it oddly funny that TCP/IP is under Microsoft as a manufacturer when you add TCP/IP to any MS machine. Almost like they invented it (sub liminal associtation?)

  • ..Heintzman said IBM is another company that will benefit from the new standard... "If we have a world where there are literally hundreds of millions of devices that can sync in this ubiquitous ad hoc manner, all of this traffic gets driven onto networks and pervasive gateways and onto high volume transaction systems" Thanks for the buzzwords, Herr Heintzman....
  • Microsoft already has a rather well developed product in ActiveSync which is currently on version 3.1. Sync's my jornada beautifully with outlook :)
  • Pilot-link is under active development as a GPL project, & not only supports UNIX & UNIX-like OSes, but I believe is also supported for OS/2 & Win32 operating systems. (But those ports need volunteers.)

    See http://www.gnu-designs.com/pilot-link/ for further details.

    Developing SyncML compliance would be a Very Good Thing.

    Geoff
  • What types of data can you actually sync with it? Is it restricted to a few types of information such as addressbook, calendar and email? Could it be used to synchronize e.g. software for filling out digital forms, running on different platforms (desktop vs. PDA)?
  • Seriously, this is the best PDA available. I've been sync'ing with my Nokia 8890 ever since I got it. Phone lists, SMS, you name it! Plus, with it's keypad I can actually enter remote shell commands to the servers I deal with at work. Try *that* with palm graffiti!

    The logo for PDA at Slashdot should be changed to a Psion image instead of a Palm. I mean, the Psion is *the* hacker PDA.

    -Justin
  • Au contraire, Linux seems to be one of the primary platforms supported by the SyncML reference code.

    My guess would be that the SyncML folk are trying to encourage servers to be written, and understand that people *much* prefer to develop servers for Linux rather than windows.

  • Anyone know the status on these? A quick Google check, plus man -K [variations on syncml/SyncML] came up with no references.

  • No Palm client yet? (Score:3)

    by cananian ( 73735 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @10:16AM (#510225) Homepage
    Although there is a download entitled "WinPalmLinux" reference code, it doesn't include anything remotely resembling palmpilot client code. Does anyone know what gives? Presumably the idea is that there will be a "MobileLink"-type application to implement the SyncML protocol on the client side? If so, where is it?
  • Just base the open source SyncML project in Australia - wonderful Section 87D in the Copyright Act.
  • Yes you can! Yahoo! provides a free version of IntelliSync and StarSync [yahoo.com] that can be used to synchronize Outlook, various PDAs, and other stuff with Yahoo.
  • If you have the right nokia phone (8260, for one) you can send the sync vcal and vcard info as SMS messages.

    --
  • I have a Siemens phone (yeah, that cool SL45 with MP3 player...) and a Palm III, and beaming is really cool, but I know all the other IR Siemens phones can talk the standard IrDA protocols as well. For example I can't just beam over an addressbook entry (complete with street address and so on), but can use the phone just as a modem and do a telnet from my Palm to my favorite chatroom...

    But that's different to syncing, of course. I always mess my addressbooks up when I try to sync my nuttscape addressbook with my Palm's. If there will really be a standard sync protocol, supported by all major vendors, heaven!

  • If you read the specs, SyncML is mostly concerned about how to make the sync connection between devices, and how to handle possible versioning conflicts, etc.

    It doesn't make any requirements on the actual data being synchronized, but rather leaves that to data abstraction standards like vCalendar and vCard. So basically any data could be transferred using SyncML as long as both the client and server side can use the same abstraction standard.


    --

  • The sponsors of the specification "may" have various patents

    Welcome to the world of telecoms. And that is the exact reason I will buy myself a visorphone. Because it is built from the PDA to the phone so that it is not encumbered by the standard nasonal telecom appreciation like all the GSM phone stuff currently in circulation. And in btw, some patents there are much sillier than the patents in software.

  • Which is exactly why i think it is not usable atm. No one has defined the standard interchange format which then has to be translated into the native record format anyhow.

  • Re:Huh? (Score:1)

    by jpr ( 14287 )
    In the case of desktop syncing yes, but in the case of pda to pda synching directly (which they mention), not via the desktop you need it on the device.
  • this is good, i think.

  • more on SyncML (Score:3)

    by nmarshall ( 33189 ) on Friday January 12, 2001 @11:41PM (#510235) Homepage
    the home [syncml.org] of the specification
    hmmm can't find a linux project for it. anyone what to start one?

    nmarshall

    The law is that which it boldly asserted and plausibly maintained..
  • If this is a calendar and address book standards format - the PC needs this as well! I cannot merge my calendar entries with say outlook and yahoo's calendar.

    This will have a huge impact on PIM managers, email clients, and calendaring software on PCs as well as handhelds.
  • Well, LDIF (RFC 2849) would be possible to start with. It is great for exchanging contact data. I am not sure if it supports scheduling information yet.
  • yes, i found them, building ask we speak.
    any lawers what explain that license?
    seems that they are holding onto some IP.
    but what that means i dont know...

    nmarshall

    The law is that which it boldly asserted and plausibly maintained..
  • hehe.. this somehow reminds me of a game of risk.. get six hundred companies with only a few more hundred to go.. omg! you stole europe! **throws up cards in defeat*

    the perfect world is a world without lag. a world without lag is a world without people
  • I agree.. I really don't care to keep everything I ever write down.

  • If it means I can beam sync calender/number information from my Palm to my phone, I'll be a happy man.

    I have a Palm, and a Nokia 8210. I can already beam stuff like that between the two.

    Having an open standard so that more devices support it would be even better though.

  • .If it means I can beam sync calender/number information from my Palm to my phone, I'll be a happy man.

    Uh, you can do that ALREADY with at least Nokia phones because both Palm and Nokia uses vCal and vCard.

  • Yes, Linux support for Epoc devices is abysmal at the moment. Hopefully SyncML will help with this, though.

    The lack of available synchronization options between Linux software and a Psion PDA is why I've considered switching my trusty Psion Series 5mx [series5mx.com] to a Palm.

    Luckily, the is at least some information for Epoc-Linux interoperability on http://5-tux.ifrance.com/5-tux/ [ifrance.com]. It is in French, though.


    --

  • At last, this should bring an end to the poor file conversion between PDA, PC (plus others). High time this happened. Also better integration between other devices such as mobile phones syncing to pdas and PC. Such software would now be easier to write (though once the connection has been made) If you look on the syncML home page (which is linked from its founders - Psion), you will notice one company that isn't supporting it... Microsoft. But then, if you think about it, if microsoft did support syncML its applications, they would loose an advantage they have over other companies - microsoft know the exact file formats and therefore can sync 100% successfully between microsoft software and its PDAs. It would be of no interest for Microsoft software to convert to other PDAs 100% successfully. (yes I know, correctly, converters do quite a good job of it) Also, there is a spec for Linux which is also complete (again, see the syncML homepage).. so maybe for us Psion owners, we will be seeing, perhaps, PsiWin for Linux :->> For other PDA owners, better sync between PDA and Linux.

  • Re:Sync, but where is MS (Score:3)

    by fhwang ( 90412 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @06:27AM (#510245) Homepage
    Although I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to try to fuck with SyncML this way, I don't know if they'd be able to. This is a move which depends on portable devices just as much as it depends on desktop PCs, and that's an area where MS has very little penetration. Their palmtops are pretty well-established, but they still don't beat PalmOS in terms of numbers, and have absolutely zero presence among cell-phones.

    Of course, you could make the point that the Windows desktop is the ultimate destination of most syncing operations, which gives them some control. However, Microsoft would need to convince third-part developers (Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, etc.) it's worth the trouble to support it. And if those developers signed on, MS would still need to give out a well-defined protocol, and even if MS made them sign a bunch of non-disclosure agreements, there are so many parties involved that the odds of leakage are decent. Once that protocol gets out, it's not so hard to hop on board and write your own version in Linux/MacOS/Be/whatever.

    As a side note, I think one of the big trends to watch in portable devices is convergence. Nobody wants to carry around a cell phone, PDA, and MP3 player -- they'd rather have all those functions in one gadget if possible. This convergence is fast approaching -- there's that Handspring Visor cell-phone module, for example, and that Samsung MP3-player/cell phone. Although Microsoft's PocketPC (WinCE) is a pretty respectable entry, I would expect the company to be behind the curve in terms of device convergence, since it's primarily a software company, and not a consumer products company. So their small leverage in the handheld world will probably shrink even further.

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